Re: EV Digest, Vol 4, Issue 89

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
1 message Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: EV Digest, Vol 4, Issue 89

Becky Novak
Help

Thank you.

--- [hidden email] wrote:

> Send EV mailing list submissions to
> [hidden email]
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
> visit
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> 'help' to
> [hidden email]
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> [hidden email]
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of EV digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: EV Conversion Financing (Bill Dube)
>    2. Re: Nanosolar panels and ev's (Christopher
> Robison)
>    3. Zombie-KillaCycle article - Right and Wrong
> (Bill Dube)
>    4. Re: Nanosolar panels and ev's (George Swartz)
>    5. Re: EV Conversion Financing (Aaron Choate)
>    6.  Need advice selecting an electric vehicle
> (Darrell S)
>    7. Yaris EV Web Site - Difficult (Steven Lough)
>    8. Re: Convert an automatic FWD car? (Eduardo
> Kaftanski)
>    9. Re: Convert an automatic FWD car? (Eduardo
> Kaftanski)
>   10. Re: Yaris EV Web Site - Difficult (Mark Dutko)
>   11. Re: Yaris EV Web Site - Difficult (Mark Dutko)
>   12. Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????
> (jerryd)
>   13. Anybody Can Build a Bugatti (john fisher)
>   14. Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????
> (Glenn Saunders)
>   15. Re: Need advice selecting an electric vehicle
> (Chuck Homic)
>   16. Completed conversions using Belktronix system.
> EV Radio Show
>       and EVS23 (EV Manny)
>   17. Re: Motor direction (Kostov) (Doug Weathers)
>   18. Re: Motor direction (Adrian DeLeon)
>   19. Re: Some of the power from coil(Tommey Reed)
> (Travis Gintz)
>   20. Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????
> (Lee Hart)
>   21. Re: Hybridizing our EV (Lee Hart)
>   22. Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????
> (Lee Hart)
>   23. Re: ZAP! Xebra EV using chinese DC motor (Lee
> Hart)
>   24. Re: A cooperative approach to making electric
> vehicles (Lee Hart)
>   25. Re: contactor configuration (Lee Hart)
>   26. Re: contactor configuration (Lee Hart)
>   27. GE motor at Surplus Center (Lee Hart)
>   28. Re: Unknown golf cart motor rebuild (Rod
> Hower)
>   29. Re: Zombie-KillaCycle article - Right and
> Wrong (Mike Willmon)
>   30. Re: Hybridizing our EV (John G. Lussmyer)
>   31. Re: Completed conversions using Belktronix
> system. EV Radio
>       Show and EVS23 (Bob Bath)
>   32. Re: Need advice selecting an electric vehicle
> (Bob Bath)
>   33. Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????
> (Lee Hart)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:05:55 -0700
> From: Bill Dube <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Conversion Financing
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
>
<[hidden email]>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii";
> format=flowed
>
> Most folks buy parts as they can afford them. Since
> it takes time to
> install them anyway, it works out as well as a
> payment plan, but
> without the interest.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
> At 12:43 PM 11/30/2007, you wrote:
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Todd Martin" <[hidden email]>
> >To: <[hidden email]>
> >Cc: <[hidden email]>
> >Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:52 PM
> >Subject: [EVDL] EV Conversion Financing
> >
> >
> > > After reading a recent post saying roughly "do
> it
> > > yourself, hire someone, or stop expecting an EV
> for
> > > free", I got to thinking about EV conversion
> > > financing.
> > >
> > > When I bought my Force, I was lucky enough to
> have a
> > > local Credit Union give me a signature loan to
> > > purchase the vehicle (at 10.5% interest over 2
> years).
> > > Used car loans are difficult to apply to an EV
> since
> > > they don't fit the usual categories that banks
> are
> > > accustomed too.  Also, they are sold typically
> by
> > > individuals instead of used car lots.  The
> problem is
> > > compounded with a conversion kit, since a bank
> would
> > > have trouble accepting the parts as collateral
> on the
> > > loan.  Remember, not every person that tries to
> make
> > > an EV conversion succeeds!  Even when they do,
> it
> > > often takes far longer than anticipated.
> > >
> > > What we need is a financial institution that is
> > > interested in this issue.
> > >
> > > Here is what I propose:
> > >
> > > The Electric Auto Association (EAA) or some
> similar EV
> > > advocacy group sets up a trust fund.
> Individuals
> > > purchase a "private EV loan insurance" from the
> EAA to
> > > guarantee their EV conversion loan that is
> underwriten
> > > by a Bank.  This would be similar to Private
> Mortgage
> > > Insurance, for people who don't have enough down
> > > payment to qualify for a home loan otherwise.
> > >
> > > The EAA gets paid a little bit of money from
> each
> > > individual that takes out one of these loans,
> which
> > > covers the "payout" of the occasional default.
> Banks
> > > win because they get a guaranteed loan.
> Individuals
> > > win because they have an easy way to get a loan,
> > > perhaps below "signature loan" rates (since they
> are
> > > guaranteed).  The EAA wins because they are
> leveraging
> > > a little bit of money into a lot of conversions
> and if
> > > done correctly is self-sustaining.
> > >
> > > Anyone have any feedback?
> > > Hi Todd an' EVerybody;
> >
> >    Sounds like a good plan? Then you would be
> getting alot more for yur 39
> >bux a year.The EAA would have a more active part of
> getting more EV'es out
> >there?
> >
> >    Bob
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Todd Martin
> > > VP, FVEAA
> > > 1997 Solectria Force
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________

> > > Be a better pen pal.
> > > Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail.
> See how.
> > > http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database:
> 269.13.28/1023 - Release Date:
> > > 9/22/2007 1:27 PM
> > >
> > >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >For subscription options, see
> >http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:12:08 -0600
> From: Christopher Robison <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Nanosolar panels and ev's
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
> <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 11:49 -0800, Aliza wrote:
> > What does it take to link solar panels to an ev
> system for charging during
> > the day either when parked or on the move?  It
> would seem to me that these
> > new nanosolar panels would make a difference in
> terms of how far one can
> > drive during the day.  If they can print them on
> the top of a big truck (or
> > anything else I might add) why not on the top of
> your car?
>
> My understanding is that entirely covering the
> available top surface of
> your car with currently available solar panels,
> after a cloudless day in
> full sunlight, will give you about 4-5 miles of
> driving range. Even with
> much better efficiency than is available on the
> market today, there
> simply isn't enough energy available in that area of
> sunlight to make a
> big difference -- certainly not worth the expense.
>
> Solar would be good for maintaining your 12V system
> though, and might be
> a good replacement for a DC/DC converter, if you
> only drive during the
> day.
>
>
> > Just curious as there is a huge push to get these
> panels up on the top of
> > houses.  Really fabu idea.  But I remember them
> talking about roof top
> > shingles in the 80's in california.  Guess PG&E
> didnt really want to eh?
>
> Solar shingles and standing seam roof panels are
> made by Unisolar. There
> are several distributors.
>
> http://www.oksolar.com/roof
>
>
> --
> Christopher Robison
> [hidden email]
> http://ohmbre.org          <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre +
> Z2K + Warp13!
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:11:59 -0700
> From: Bill Dube <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [EVDL] Zombie-KillaCycle article - Right
> and Wrong
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
>
<[hidden email]>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii";
> format=flowed
>
> http://reviewcarsblog.info/?p=2466
>
> The Denver Post managed to screw up the KillaCycle
> team line-up
> famously, but the above article managed to get
> EVERYONE'S name screwed up.
>
> 99% positive EV article, however.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:14:43 -0800
> From: "George Swartz" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Nanosolar panels and ev's
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I calculated one time that solar panels on a car
> (pickup tonneau, or van
> top) would add about one mile of range per hour of
> good sunshine, so that in
> a day's time at work on a nice day, you could add 5
> or 6 miles of range.
>
> The possible better way to do it is to have a solar
> array on your house
> adding kwh to the grid at peak demand time and being
> paid for it, then
> recharging your car at night at off peak lower
> rates.  Kills a flock of
> birds with one stone.
>
> The big incentive to my driving an EV is the solar
> energy connection.  The
> cost of the system is high, but it amortizes quickly
> when compared with the
> cost of gasoline and for those that are concerned
> with carbon, it
> contributes none.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:49:00 -0800, Aliza wrote
> > What does it take to link solar panels to an ev
> system for charging
> > during the day either when parked or on the move?
> It would seem to
> > me that these new nanosolar panels would make a
> difference in terms
> > of how far one can drive during the day.  If they
> can print them on
> > the top of a big truck (or anything else I might
> add) why not on the
> > top of your car?
> >
> > Just curious as there is a huge push to get these
> panels up on the
> > top of houses.  Really fabu idea.  But I remember
> them talking about
> > roof top shingles in the 80's in california.
> Guess PG&E didnt
> > really want to eh?
> >
> > Aliza
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:31:27 -0600
> From: "Aaron Choate" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Conversion Financing
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
>
>
<[hidden email]>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I think that's a great idea.  Anything that gets the
> community more
> involved in providing a solution would be good.
>
> Another option that I think would be interesting to
> pursue would be
> the "community financing" sites like Prosper.  It
> has come up before
> and I configured a "Custom Electric" Group there at
> one point, but I
> never pushed it because I wasn't all that
> comfortable with pushing it
> as the group founder.  However, Prosper has recently
> reconfigured
> things so that there is no incentive for me to
> mention the group...
> SO, now I am comfortable mentioning it... weird huh?
>  I think it is
> still active if you want to go to the site and look
> for it and join
> up.  <http://www.prosper.com>
>
> Anyway, if there are people interested in helping to
> finance OTHER
> people's conversions/projects, there is a way.  Nice
> thing is, you
> stand to help the community while also making some
> interest on the
> money that you are risking.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Aaron Choate
>
> On Nov 30, 2007 11:52 AM, Todd Martin
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > After reading a recent post saying roughly "do it
> > yourself, hire someone, or stop expecting an EV
> for
> > free", I got to thinking about EV conversion
> > financing.
> >
> > When I bought my Force, I was lucky enough to have
> a
> > local Credit Union give me a signature loan to
> > purchase the vehicle (at 10.5% interest over 2
> years).
> >  Used car loans are difficult to apply to an EV
> since
> > they don't fit the usual categories that banks are
> > accustomed too.  Also, they are sold typically by
> > individuals instead of used car lots.  The problem
> is
> > compounded with a conversion kit, since a bank
> would
> > have trouble accepting the parts as collateral on
> the
> > loan.  Remember, not every person that tries to
> make
> > an EV conversion succeeds!  Even when they do, it
> > often takes far longer than anticipated.
> >
> > What we need is a financial institution that is
> > interested in this issue.
> >
> > Here is what I propose:
> >
> > The Electric Auto Association (EAA) or some
> similar EV
> > advocacy group sets up a trust fund.  Individuals
> > purchase a "private EV loan insurance" from the
> EAA to
> > guarantee their EV conversion loan that is
> underwriten
> > by a Bank.  This would be similar to Private
> Mortgage
> > Insurance, for people who don't have enough down
> > payment to qualify for a home loan otherwise.
> >
> > The EAA gets paid a little bit of money from each
> > individual that takes out one of these loans,
> which
> > covers the "payout" of the occasional default.
> Banks
> > win because they get a guaranteed loan.
> Individuals
> > win because they have an easy way to get a loan,
> > perhaps below "signature loan" rates (since they
> are
> > guaranteed).  The EAA wins because they are
> leveraging
> > a little bit of money into a lot of conversions
> and if
> > done correctly is self-sustaining.
> >
> > Anyone have any feedback?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Todd Martin
> > VP, FVEAA
> > 1997 Solectria Force
> >
> >
> >
> >      
>
____________________________________________________________________________________

> > Be a better pen pal.
> > Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See
> how.  http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:04:25 -0800 (PST)
> From: Darrell S <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [EVDL]  Need advice selecting an electric
> vehicle
> To: [hidden email]
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> I am currently looking to purchase a car to replace
> the conversion van I have
> been driving. If my calculations are correct it is
> costing me about 10-12
> dollars to make the round trip from home to work and
> back and it is time to
> change things.
>
> I have a 40 mile round trip and I don't have access
> to electricity to charge
> the vehicle while at work. I would also like a 10
> mile buffer on my range in
> case I have to deviate from my usual route and run
> an errand on the way
> home.
>
> Also, any route that I take is going to require me
> to drive at least 45mph
> and if I take that route I will have to add a few
> miles each way to get to
> the back roads. I really need to be able to do 55.
>
> Is there any type of conversion combination that
> will work given those
> considerations?
> --
> View this message in context:
>
http://www.nabble.com/Need-advice-selecting-an-electric-vehicle-tf4924590s25542.html#a14093707

> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:04:33 -0800
> From: Steven Lough <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [EVDL] Yaris EV Web Site - Difficult
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;
> format=flowed
>
> I also had trouble, even wrote off-Line to the
> author for an explination.
>
> It would not come up At All, using Netscape 7.1 OR
> FireFox.  Finally
> used MSN Explorer, and the site came up.
>
> Have No idea why this is.....
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

> Dan Fredericksen wrote:
>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> ah I had looked through your site but it was hidden
> by way of the blog
> archive. good images although perhaps a little too
> well hidden on the
> page. I wonder how many others have missed them.
>
> were there any problems in getting the whole clutch
> flywheel assembly to
> sit level on the axle via the hub? seems like a lot
> of weight for it to
> naturally hang level given the small contact on the
> axle. was the hub
> just made very tight and hammered on?
>
> Da
>
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
> Day:  206 850-8535
> Eve:  206 524-1351
> e-mail: [hidden email]
> web:     http://www.seattleeva.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:24:14 -0300
> From: Eduardo Kaftanski <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Convert an automatic FWD car?
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 12:34:02PM -0700, Roland
> Wiench wrote:
> > Hello Eduardo,
> >
> > The motor, controller and batteries are no
> problem.  I am using the same set
> > up with 180 volts of batteries and have a range of
> 39.5 miles so far at 50%
> > DOD.
> >
> > If you are using a automatic, you will have to
> modified it so you can start
> > to the move the car at about .1mph.  The torque
> converter in some models
> > will not start to lock up below 500 rpm.   If you
> idle the motor at 500 rpm,
> > then if you do not apply additional load to the
> motor to keep it running up
> > in rpm, you will be starting out at a jerk which
> may take out the clutches
> > in with a short period of time.
>
> I plan on idling the motor both for the transmission
> and for the
> hydraulic pump for the suspension and brakes. 700rpm
> is what I
> will idle it at, and it will have enough load with
> the pump and
> converter.
>
> a ZF4HP14 is not that lossy and has a cable operated
> governor so I
> dont need a vacumm pump, just to keep the throttle
> body linkage.
>
> another advantage isthe flexplate. its a very small
> and flimsy piece of
> metal and I can get rid of the flywheel.
>
>
> --
> Eduardo K.            |
> http://www.carfun.cl  | I'm white and nerdy
> http://ev.nn.cl       |               Weird Al
>                       |
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:28:55 -0300
> From: Eduardo Kaftanski <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Convert an automatic FWD car?
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 09:19:02AM -0800, (-Phil-)
> wrote:
> > Seems reasonable, except for the automatic.  Can
> you find a manual at a
> > scrapyard?
>
> I could work if I could lock it in some gear.
> Retrofiting the
> gear lever would be almost impossible (and I like
> this particular car,
> the body is almost perfect and I know its entire
> history)
>
> > Just out of curiosity, how is your engine failing,
> and how many Km's does it
> > have?
> >
>
> It has 127900kmts (in 11 years). It was my wife's
> car, got used
> only some days a week, the heater core corroded, all
> coolant got out
> and the engine overheated. The head cracked.
>
> I made a patch-up job to keep driving until I can
> convert it, but
> at least one piston or cilinder got warped because
> the crankcase
> pressurizes and oil gets thrown out via the
> dipstick.
>
> So I have almost the ideal glider. Nice body, in a
> car I love,
> with a busted engine.
>  
> --
> Eduardo K.            |
> http://www.carfun.cl  | I'm white and nerdy
> http://ev.nn.cl       |               Weird Al
>                       |
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:34:13 -0800
> From: Mark Dutko <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Yaris EV Web Site - Difficult
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
> <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII;
> format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> It only likes MAC's :)   Not sure why?
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Nov 30, 2007, at 1:04 PM, Steven Lough wrote:
>
> > I also had trouble, even wrote off-Line to the
> author for an  
> > explination.
> >
> > It would not come up At All, using Netscape 7.1 OR
> FireFox.  Finally
> > used MSN Explorer, and the site came up.
> >
> > Have No idea why this is.....
> >
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > Dan Fredericksen wrote:
> >
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
> >
> > ah I had looked through your site but it was
> hidden by way of the blog
> > archive. good images although perhaps a little too
> well hidden on the
> > page. I wonder how many others have missed them.
> >
> > were there any problems in getting the whole
> clutch flywheel  
> > assembly to
> > sit level on the axle via the hub? seems like a
> lot of weight for it  
> > to
> > naturally hang level given the small contact on
> the axle. was the hub
> > just made very tight and hammered on?
> >
> > Da
> >
> > --
> > Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> > Seattle EV Association
> > 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> > Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
> > Day:  206 850-8535
> > Eve:  206 524-1351
> > e-mail: [hidden email]
> > web:     http://www.seattleeva.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:35:43 -0800
> From: Mark Dutko <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Yaris EV Web Site - Difficult
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
> <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII;
> format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I use firefox and safari- no problem, perhaps a
> temporary issue.
>
> M
>
>
> On Nov 30, 2007, at 1:04 PM, Steven Lough wrote:
>
> > I also had trouble, even wrote off-Line to the
> author for an  
> > explination.
> >
> > It would not come up At All, using Netscape 7.1 OR
> FireFox.  Finally
> > used MSN Explorer, and the site came up.
> >
> > Have No idea why this is.....
> >
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > Dan Fredericksen wrote:
> >
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
> >
> > ah I had looked through your site but it was
> hidden by way of the blog
> > archive. good images although perhaps a little too
> well hidden on the
> > page. I wonder how many others have missed them.
> >
> > were there any problems in getting the whole
> clutch flywheel  
> > assembly to
> > sit level on the axle via the hub? seems like a
> lot of weight for it  
> > to
> > naturally hang level given the small contact on
> the axle. was the hub
> > just made very tight and hammered on?
> >
> > Da
> >
> > --
> > Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> > Seattle EV Association
> > 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> > Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
> > Day:  206 850-8535
> > Eve:  206 524-1351
> > e-mail: [hidden email]
> > web:     http://www.seattleeva.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:40:30 -0500
> From: "jerryd" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt
> Frustrated????
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>           Hi Morgan and All,
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
> <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt
> Frustrated????
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:57:14 -0600
>
> >$250k is ridiculous! (Unless we're also buying a
> license to
> >the intellectual property.)
>
>        Correct, way to much.
>
> >
> >The solar car team makes molds for composite
> assembly, and
> >the process costs less than $50,000! A big chunk of
> that is
> >paying a machine shop with the right machinery to
> mill the
> >molds. (Two molds, one for the top half and one for
> the
> >bottom half.) However, the solar cars are very
> aerodynamic
> >and streamlined, with no tricky protrusions like
> mirrors.
>
>           They got ripped!!! Everything for the
> original
> male plug and female production molds both chassis
> and body
> for the Freedom EV cost under $7-10k if done
> completely by
> the FG job shop. It cost me less because I built the
> plug
> until almost finish. Letting those with the tools do
> the
> final finish and they have to garrantee clean pull
> is a
> smart choice as they can do it much faster, cheaper.
>          I could get the tooling done for the
> Sunrise for
> about $25k here in Fla. I'll be doing my own EV
> sedan  for
> about $5k with me doing most of the work for the
> production
> tooling.
>          Actually it's not the body/chassis or the
> EV parts
> that's hard, it's all that little stuff like door
> hinges,
> headlight adjustment, suspension, air vents,
> conditioning,
> ect that drives you insane trying to find ones that
> can be
> used in a production car/EV.
>
> >I'm guessing that the Sunrise would have to include
> mirrors
> >as a separate component.
> >
> >Also, what is the status on the intellectual
> property of
> >the Sunrise? If the owners of the company (or
> whoever
> >bought them) tells us to not use their IP, what can
> we do?
>
>         At least one company employee is on the
> list, has
> helped us and I've been to their factory talking
> about what
> we are doing as they offered us their chassis mold.
> A lso
> it's a dream of James Worden? who sold us the
> body/chassis
> to get his design in some kind of production. But
> really
> it's moot point as the Sunrise 2 I think it's called
> is very
> different as to be completely different EV's, much
> improved
> with just some of the Aero shape in common.
>         The molds left were in such bad shape, not
> to
> mention very heavy like 2-3 tons. Why is they were
> built as
> a double sided high speed injection molds which pics
> are of
> somewhere on the web by the company who injected
> them and
> maybe built them. I did about 1/2 of it's
> replacement in 5
> days. I built the Freedom EV chassis production mold
> of
> plywood and High pressure laminate, Formica, in 8
> hrs and a
> sedan of my design would take about 8 hrs and about
> $350.
>          So you can see the costs are just not high
> and why
> I'm getting the Freedom on the road, in production
> for under
> $30k. Had all the money came at once it would have
> been
> 2/3's that.
> >
> >-Morgan LaMoore
> >
> >On Nov 30, 2007 11:37 AM,  <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >> Well boys here is an opportunity to have a
> Sunrise EV and
> >> start a Co- oP at the same time. Just get 250
> members to
> >> sign up for 1000 each and all will be able to
> help build
> >> and sell a new Sunrise. Each would then be part
> owner and
> >> if it got off the ground all would stand a chance
> to make
> >>some serious money.
> >> I'd join for only 1K. I'd invest more for the
> supplies
> >> for each car but in the end it could be worth the
> small
> >> risk on a venture like this. The technology is
> here. We
> >> just need a nice body to use. The Sunrise works
> for me.
>
>          That was my idea originally for the Freedom
> but it
> didn't work out that way but it did work. Better
> would be
> 100 people send in say $50-100/month would do nicely
> for the
> Sunrise to Lee Hart who in charge of it. In a yr it
> would be
> done!!
>
>                               Jerry Dycus
> >>
> >> Pete
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:08:16 -0800
> From: john fisher <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [EVDL] Anybody Can Build a Bugatti
> To: [hidden email]
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> why there are good engineering reasons it takes so
> long for major manufacturers to get to green
> vehicles, and a little
> about what we should do about it.
>
> Plus, some brief and incomplete reflection on why
> upstarts have little chance against established
> carmakers.
>
> http://www.jawfish.net/wordpress/archives/170
>
> John
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:14:01 -0800 (PST)
> From: Glenn Saunders <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt
> Frustrated????
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
> <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> So everyone donates their $1,000 and the mold gets
> purchased.  Then what?  I would really want to see a
> concrete business plan that maps things out in
> detail all the way towards mass production.  From
> what I've heard about this, it's really a hobby
> project.  It's not something likely to become a true
> business that would break even.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
>
> Well boys here is an opportunity to have a Sunrise
> EV and start a Co-
> oP at the same time. Just get 250 members to sign up
> for 1000 each  
> and all will be able to help build and sell a new
> Sunrise. Each would  
> then be part owner and if it got off the ground all
> would stand a  
> chance to make some serious money.
>
> I'd join for only 1K. I'd invest more for the
> supplies for each car  
> but in the end it could be worth the small risk on a
> venture like  
> this. The technology is here. We just need a nice
> body to use. The  
> Sunrise works for me.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:39:16 -0500
> From: Chuck Homic <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Need advice selecting an
> electric vehicle
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> Darrell S wrote:
> > I have a 40 mile round trip and I don't have
> access to electricity to charge
> > the vehicle while at work. I would also like a 10
> mile buffer on my range in
> > case I have to deviate from my usual route and run
> an errand on the way
> > home.
> >
> > Also, any route that I take is going to require me
> to drive at least 45mph
> > and if I take that route I will have to add a few
> miles each way to get to
> > the back roads. I really need to be able to do 55.
>
> >  
> I'm in a similar situation, so I'll watch the
> answers to this thread
> carefully.
>
> I've been spending a lot of time with Jerry's EV
> calculator:
> http://www.evconvert.com/tools/evcalc/
>
> This setup (50mi@55mph) will require a healthy
> lead/steel ratio.  
> 1400lbs in a 2800lb donor (like a 4dr sedan) if it
> can take it (over 2
> tons gross vehicle weight), or a full ton of
> batteries in a pickup
> (5000lbs total), unless some of the defaults in the
> calculator are
> sketchy.  This is assuming you spend some time at
> ~30mph on the way
> to/from the 55mph road.
>
> Right now, I'm holding off buying a donor until I
> come up with something
> brilliant.  So far the best chance seems to be a
> electric assist bicycle. :)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:29:39 -0800
> From: "EV Manny" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [EVDL] Completed conversions using
> Belktronix system. EV
> Radio Show and EVS23
> To: [hidden email]
> Message-ID:
>
>
<[hidden email]>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Erv,
> I was impressed with the turnaround of my controller
> (He received and
> shipped back within the week).
> Other than Ron whom I've exchanged emails with his
> 88 Ford Ranger
> ( http://www.belktronix.com/ronsranger.html ),  and
> the 1994 Ponitac
> Grand Prix that is on the Belktronix site(
> http://www.belktronix.com/pgpconv.html )
> ; I know of no other completed conversions on the
> road yet.
>
> There are some In-Progress conversions besides my
> own in the EVAlbum
> and the Belktronix site:
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/644
>
> http://www.belktronix.com/jdtarusev.html
>
> http://www.belktronix.com/richev.html
>
> Hope that Helps,
> Manny
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1117
> http://EVorBust.blogspot.com
>
> PS.
> The EV Centric Radio Show we were on to promote the
> Electric Dragin
> EVent is on line. The show had KD of SSI  and
> PlasmaBoy's playful
> challenge banter plus calls from Charles Whalen of
> Florida's EAA to
> promote the concurrent Battery Beach Burnout EVent.
>
>
http://totallymotorsports.com/kceo/you_auto_know112407.mp3

>
> and Finally:
> >From EVS23 in Anaheim, CA
> RADIO SHOW SUNDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2007 from 9:00 to
> 11:00 A.M. (Pacific Time)
> Connect to Electric-Drive with Electric Dragin',
> Nilar Inc. & Plug-In
> Conversions
> www.electricdragin.com
> www.nilar.com
> www.pluginconversions.com
>
> Live broadcast by RPM Today on espn radio
>
> Listen Live Sunday from 9-11 am PT on your radio
> dial at 800 AM or
> internet connection at  http://web.espnradio800.com
>
> Call-in Nation Wide at 866-377-6800
>
>
>
> On 11/30/07, erv wrote:
> > Hi Manny,
> >
> > I also purchased a system from Bryan at Belktronix
> and received notice of the potential problem with
> the controller - and a very decent promise of a
> quick turn-around. I will be very interested in how
> your conversion performs as you are ahead of me in
> assembling things! Do you know of any other
> Belktronix systems on the road?
> >
> > Erv
> > 83 ford ranger
> > 144v Belktronix
> > WarP9
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:50:52 -0700
> From: Doug Weathers <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor direction (Kostov)
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> Kostov motors were popular for EVs several years
> ago.  As a plus, they
> have interpoles, which should mean that they don't
> care what direction
> they rotate (unless there are issues with the brush
> holder).
>
> As a minus, they have wimpy commutators that tend to
> 'splode.
>
> As a further minus, it was very difficult to get
> warranty service from
> Russia once it had 'sploded.  I recall a post from
> Randy Holmquist of
> Canadian EV where he said he had a shelf full of
> dead Kostovs that he
> couldn't get them to fix.
>
> Others on the list have actual hands-on experience
> with these motors and
> hopefully will correct any mistakes in the above.
>
> You can also search the archives (and the EV Photo
> Album) for "kostov"
> and see what turns up.  We've had a few
> conversations about them over
> the years, and there have been several EVs that
> use(d) Kostovs.  Even
> White Zombie had one (specially modified with a
> beefy comm) for a while
> before it got twin 8in motors.
>
> Here's a very nice conversion that used a Kostov
> until it 'sploded.  
> <http://home.pacbell.net/evranger/evranger.htm>
> Here's one that's still
> driving:  <http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/017.html>
>  I got to ride in
> this one.  Nice car, and Jonathan has been a big
> help to me on my own
> conversion.
>
> HTH,
>
> Doug
>
> Dan Frederiksen wrote:
> > anyone know which way volkswagen/audi/porsche
> motors spin? I've found a
> > possible candidate motor but it's CWDE which I
> take to mean one way only.
> > it has good power, small weight, small price. a
> kostov (now called
> > elprom ems)
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >  
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:03:14 -0800
> From: "Adrian DeLeon" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor direction
> To: [hidden email]
> Message-ID: <op.t2ms7op5820uig@madeline>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes;
> charset=iso-8859-15
>
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:00:30 -0800, <Dan
> Frederiksen> wrote:
>
> > anyone know which way volkswagen/audi/porsche
> motors spin? I've found a
> > possible candidate motor but it's CWDE which I
> take to mean one way only.
> > it has good power, small weight, small price. a
> kostov (now called
> > elprom ems)
> > Dan
>
> VW runs CCW - I believe it's the Hondas that run CW.
>
> On most motors the end bell can be adjusted for CW
> or CCW rotation. Some  
> already have drilled/tapped holes for this. Others
> you have to drill  
> yourself. Search the archives for specifics.
>
> -Adrian
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:38:18 -0800
> From: "Travis Gintz" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Some of the power from
> coil(Tommey Reed)
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
>
>
<[hidden email]>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> phil, please don't feed the uneducated trolls
>
> :)
>
> he's not loading the generator at all, he needs to
> go to school and
> actually get his GED, this shit was covered in HS
> science class.
>
> On Nov 30, 2007 8:10 AM, (-Phil-)
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > It's still not "free".  Do a spindown test.  Run
> your motor up with no load,
> > then disconnect the input power and time how long
> it takes to spin down.
> > Then connect your 10ma load and do the same test.
> Note that the motor comes
> > to a halt much faster!
> >
> > That 10ma you pull will add AT LEAST 10ma to the
> input load.  Guaranteed.
> > It's not free!
> >
> > You cannot trust your crude instrumentation at
> levels as low as 10ma,
> > especially when using digital meters on transient
> currents.  Just because
> > your cheap harbor freight meters don't read the
> "pulse" doesn't mean it's
> > not there!
> >
> > -Phil
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[hidden email]>
> > To: <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:49 PM
> > Subject: [EVDL] Some of the power from coil(Tommey
> Reed)
> >
> >
> > > This is what the second coil does.
> > > I did not say overunity, but did say that a
> percent for charge will
> > > recharge at 14v at 10ma.
> > >
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj1YBQp-V10
> > >
>
________________________________________________________________________
> > > More new features than ever.  Check out the new
> AIM(R) Mail ! -
> > >
>
http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aimcmp00050000000001

> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Travis Gintz
> 1986 Honda VFR DC conversion
> Http://blog.evfr.net/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:20:24 -0600
> From: Lee Hart <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt
> Frustrated????
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> Glenn wrote:
> >> I agree that car makers should look into
> composites.
>
> They already use quite a few composite parts.
> However, most are molded
> composites, like fiberglass reinforced plastics,
> which can be mass
> produced in high pressure molds.
>
> Ryan Stotts wrote:
> > I think they did:
> > http://www.scaled.com/projects/gmcar.html
>
> Yes, that's a great example by one of the masters of
> composites (Burt
> Rutan  ofScaled Composites).
>
> > How to build that on an automated assembly line?
>
> The GM Ultralite, Solectria Sunrise, and Hypercar
> Institute's Revolution
> are all examples of composite cars that were
> designed to be easier to
> mass produce. Basically, they use expensive molds,
> saturate the cloth
> with special thermoset resins, and then "stamp out"
> the part as if it
> were sheet metal in a heated mold. They can produce
> many parts per hour
> this way. The body is made as a number of separate
> parts, which are then
> glued together with high-strength adhesives.
>
> In theory, you can mass produce such parts
> relatively quickly and
> cheaply. It's being done in practice for much
> smaller parts; but I don't
> know of anyone making anything as big as a car body
> with this process.
>
> There's a method I found that looks interesting for
> medium-sized runs of
> composite parts. You cut the dry cloth so it drapes
> nicely over the
> mold. Put the cloth in a plastic bag. Use a vacuum
> pump to suck excess
> air out of the bag. Drape the bag+cloth over the
> mold. Use a vacuum pump
> to pull it tight against the mold (exactly as you
> would do to vacuum
> form a plastic part). Now introduce resin into one
> corner of the bag,
> and let the vacuum pull it through the cloth. The
> plastic bag is clear,
> so you can see the wetting of the cloth, and use a
> roller or fingers to
> squeeze it into any places that get missed. Let the
> resin cure. Lift the
> part off the mold, and peel off the plastic bag.
>
> This produces a part with *far* less mess. Because
> of the plastic bag,
> the mold doesn't need mold release beforehand, or
> cleaning afterward.
> The part can't stick to it, and you don't get resin
> all over all your
> tools and hands. The main drawback is that the
> surface texture of the
> bag (including any wrinkles) gets copied into the
> composite part, which
> may require extra finishing work.
>
> > I think Corvette bodies are still somewhat hand
> built (chopper gun)?
>
> I believe so; basically they still use the same
> process as mass produced
> fiberglass boats, bathtubs, and similar consumer
> items. Rather weak and
> heavy, but cheap and nice looking.
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:29:33 -0600
> From: Lee Hart <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hybridizing our EV
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > In my case I simply can NOT get a car to do what a
> Hybrid Sparrow can
> > do.  Legally be a motorcycle.
>
> John, how has this little generator on the back
> worked out? How much
> extra range does it actually provide?
>
> On the pollution side, it runs on gasoline; right?
> Could you modify it
> to run on E85, alcohol or propane? They are cleaner
> fuels, and still
> fairly easy to get.
>
> I wonder if you technically have to pay road tax on
> fuel for a generator
> if the electricity is used to recharge an electric
> car? :-)
>
> > I'm also planning on this being a temporary
> solution until I can afford
> > some decent batteries that are better than Optima
> Garbage Tops.
>
> What's the latest on this sad saga? Did they replace
> the latest bad
> ones? Besides the quality control issues, do the
> (nominally) good
> Optimas still work OK? What other batteries are
> Sparrow owners finding
> to be the best choice for their little birds?
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:46:27 -0600
> From: Lee Hart <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt
> Frustrated????
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> [hidden email] wrote:
> > Well I sure don't get them all but I did find that
> the original  
> > makers dove out long ago. If they make kits then
> they will need to  
> > make the kit for some specific auto platform
> otherwise it will need  
> > to go through all the crash testing and such. Kits
> would be fine as I  
> > have thought of this as well.
>
> As others have mentioned, the Sunrise is indeed
> being reborn as a kit
> car. We're calling it the Sunrise EV2 to distinguish
> it from the
> original. We bought the last surviving body,
> chassis, and documentation
> from James Worden, founder and CEO of Solectria.
>
> While the original Sunrise was a wonderful car
> technologically, it was
> in some respects unfinished. It had non-opening
> plastic windows, spartan
> interior with minimal creature comforts, used
> overloaded Geo Metro
> suspension for poor handling, etc. It was also
> designed for mass
> production, which made it difficult and expensive to
> produce in small
> numbers.
>
> We're redesigning the Sunrise EV2 to correct these
> problems. It uses the
> 1989-1997 Fort Thunderbird or Mercury Cougar as the
> donor car; this
> considerably strengthens the suspension and improves
> handling and
> braking. We've increased space for the motor,
> batteries, and drive
> train, to allow higher power motors and controllers
> for better
> acceleration. The design is also generic, to allow
> builders to use any
> motor, controller and batteries.
>
> The basic body and chassis designs are the same as
> Solectria's to take
> advantage of their crash testing experience. But we
> have simplified the
> molds for the body and chassis, so they can be built
> by hand in small
> numbers. These techniques were pioneered by Burt
> Rutan at Scaled
> Composites so people could build his high
> performance aircraft kits in
> their garages.
>
> Solectria showed what was possible in an electric
> car with state of the
> art technology when cost is no object (AC motor,
> inverter, nimh
> batteries, 200 mile range, etc.). So, our first EV2
> prototype is using
> older DC motor, controllers, and lead-acid batteries
> to see what can be
> done with affordable technology. I conservatively
> expect to be able to
> achieve a range of over 100 miles.
>
> It's an expensive undertaking and there's still much
> to be done. But
> frankly, I predict you'll be able to buy a Sunrise
> EV2 long before you
> can a GM Volt!
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:53:20 -0600
> From: Lee Hart <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] ZAP! Xebra EV using chinese DC
> motor
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> Dan Frederiksen wrote:
> > wow that would be a significant error : ) and I
> see the reasoning but
> > the assumption was based on data like this:
> > http://www.go-ev.com/images/WarP_8_Graph.jpg
> > where the current-torque correlation is more
> linear, certainly far from
> > squared.
> >
> > how do we explain that then?
>
> For a series motor, torque is proportional to
> current squared at low
> current, gradually transitioning to be proportional
> to current at high
> currents. If you go to very high current (far beyond
> ratings) the torque
> increase is less than proportional to current. But
> every increase in
> current increases the torque (which is why the drag
> racers use series
> motors).
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:37:38 -0600
> From: Lee Hart <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] A cooperative approach to making
> electric vehicles
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> This is a great idea. I think it has a lot of merit.
>
> Our Minnesota chapter of the EAA is doing this.
> Michael Shoop is
> converting a Corvette into an EV, with the help of
> the other members.
> Ours is a new chapter, so almost no one has any
> experience with EVs.
> Many are afraid to be first jump into a big project.
> Michael is being
> brave enough to go first, and offer others a way to
> learn "on the job".
> When we finish, they will have the skills and
> confidence to tackle
> projects of their own.
>
> In general, I would suggest something similar to
> what Habitat for
> Humanity does for houses. People volunteer to work
> on building or
> renovating houses. In the process, they learn all
> the basic skills of
> carpentry, masonry, plumbing, wiring, painting, etc.
> When the house is
> finished, it is *given away free* to the person at
> the top of their
> waiting list.
>
> As people work, they accumulate hours. The more they
> do, the farther
> their name moves up the waiting list. Eventually,
> their name reaches the
> top of the list, and they get a free house.
>
> It's worked fantastically well. Habitat for Humanity
> is now the largest
> builder of new homes in the world!
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:40:23 -0600
> From: Lee Hart <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] contactor configuration
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> Jon Glauser wrote:
> > Also, I now have some photos of the contacts in
> the albright sw200-3
> > here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/imbob_yournot/
> > They look bad to me, but I've never looked at
> contactor contacts before!
> > Any expert opinions on this? Normal? Abused? Why
> did it get this way?
> > How can it be prevented?
>
> I agree with Roland Weinch -- it looks like these
> contacts have been
> switching high peak loads. That's inevitable with a
> contactor
> controller, but shouldn't be happening with a solid
> state controller.
>
> Do you have a precharge resistor, or are you just
> turning on this
> contactor to charge the controller's capacitors?
> Contactors (and
> capacitors) won't last long if you do this!
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:05:03 -0600
> From: Lee Hart <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] contactor configuration
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> T. Marshall wrote:
> > This is all very interesting!  I'm thinking of
> having a contactor tied to
> > the potbox with a precharge resistor, and have
> another contactor on the
> > negative side of the battery pack that is powered
> by the ignition switch.
> > Does anyone do that?
>
> Yes, that's how my EV is wired. It has two
> contactors, one for the
> negative side and one for the positive side.
> Switching the key on closes
> the negative side one. The precharge circuit closes
> the positive side
> one when the controller has precharged.
>
> > By the way, how large of a precharge resistor
> should I use?
>
> The resistance determines how long it takes to
> precharge. I use a 75
> watt light bulb as my precharge resistor. It
> precharges a Curtis 1231
> controller in under 1 second.
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:42:18 -0600
> From: Lee Hart <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [EVDL] GE motor at Surplus Center
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> Brad Lindberg bought one of the GE "2HP" motors from
> Surplus Center and
> brought it to last night's MN EAA meeting. This is
> item# 10-2120 at
> www.surpluscenter.com for $199.99. The specs list it
> as a GE
> 5BT-1344B133, 2hp, 24vdc, 72a, 1050rpm, continuous
> duty, CW rotation,
> compound wound, 9" dia. x 14.5", 149 lbs.
>
> I must say, I am very favorably impressed. It is
> new, clean, and in
> perfect condition. It has a huge 48-bar commutator
> and 8 brushes, easily
> as big as an ADC 8" motor. This motor will handle a
> *lot* more than 24v
> and 72a! It's beefy enough for a small car
> conversion like an Geo Metro.
>
> We didn't take it apart, so we can't tell exactly
> what it has for a
> field. There are only two terminal bolts (no field
> terminals). It says
> "compound", so it probably has both a series and a
> shunt field, both
> internally connected. It will take some disassembly
> and experimenting to
> see exactly what it has for a field.
>
> There is no internal fan, and no cooling holes at
> the drive end. There
> is a grille over the brush end, but no good way to
> blow air past the
> field or armature coils. So I would recommend
> cutting some holes in the
> drive end bell or case, and use an external blower
> for cooling.
>
> Anyway, looks like the makings of a good EV motor!
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:08:09 -0800 (PST)
> From: Rod Hower <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Unknown golf cart motor rebuild
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
> <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I have a very old golf cart motor that has dual
> shafts
> with a brake caliper on one end and a splined shaft
> on
> the other to mate with a gear box.  It took me 1/2
> hour to pull off the caliper side coupling with a
> heavy duty puller from work.  
> The brushes measure 0.65" by 0.52", I'm wondering
> how
> this compares to newer golf cart motors.  I have a
> couple of newer golf cart motors but have not
> measured
> the brushes yet.  The only large obstacle for this
> rebuild is a bolt that holds a pole shoe is sheared
> off and I have to figure out how to extract it.  If
> I
> get this part resolved it will be a new looking
> motor
> in a couple of weeks.  Not sure what I'm going to do
> with it yet, maybe put it on one of the kids
> electric
> go-carts to test a series motor control (homebrew).
>
>
> Anyhow, the main question is, what are the
> dimensions
> of a golf cart motor brush?
> Thanks,
> Rod
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 29
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:23:10 -0900
> From: Mike Willmon <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zombie-KillaCycle article -
> Right and Wrong
> To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'"
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
> <A6360A51B1434265ABA890E55A64CC15@aurorafourPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I posted this to their Blog:
>
> The Owner of the White Zombie is John Wayland
> www.plasmaboyracing.com.  Dick
> Brown is the President of Aerobatteries a
> distrubutor of the Enersys Genesis
> batteries used in the White Zombie.  The 1 second
> time is for 0-60 feet, a
> common measure of initial performance used in Drag
> Racing.  White Zombies
> actual 0-60 mph times are around 3.5 seconds.  Bill
> Dube is the owner of
> Killacycle and Scotty Pollacheck is the driver.
> www.killacycle.com.
> Killacycle 0-60 ft time is 1.14 seconds.  The bike's
> 0-60 mph time are
> nearer 1 second than White Zombie.
> Even though the White Zombie races 1/4 mile at a
> time, the car can still get
> 40 miles on a charge with normal city driving.  And
> yes, its street legal.
> John drives it to the track to race.
> Just wanted to state the actual facts :-)
>
> Mike Willmon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
> Of Bill Dube
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 11:12 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: [EVDL] Zombie-KillaCycle article - Right
> and Wrong
>
> http://reviewcarsblog.info/?p=2466
>
> The Denver Post managed to screw up the KillaCycle
> team line-up
> famously, but the above article managed to get
> EVERYONE'S name screwed up.
>
> 99% positive EV article, however.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 30
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:41:44 -0800
> From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hybridizing our EV
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
> > John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> >  
> >> In my case I simply can NOT get a car to do what
> a Hybrid Sparrow can
> >> do.  Legally be a motorcycle.
> >>    
> > John, how has this little generator on the back
> worked out? How much
> > extra range does it actually provide?
> >  
> Not sure yet, as I'm still fighting with bad
> Optimas.
> I get 1.6KW from the genset the whole time.  I
> cruise at about 9KW at 55mph.
> I also sit on the ferry dock for 5-10 minutes as
> well.
>
> > On the pollution side, it runs on gasoline; right?
> Could you modify it
> > to run on E85, alcohol or propane? They are
> cleaner fuels, and still
> > fairly easy to get.
> >  
> Possibly, but it is a complete system with
> electronic controls.  I'm not
> sure I want to tinker with it.  (I also need it to
> keep the computer
> working during power failures - remember I live on
> an Island!)
>
> > What's the latest on this sad saga? Did they
> replace the latest bad
> > ones? Besides the quality control issues, do the
> (nominally) good
> > Optimas still work OK? What other batteries are
> Sparrow owners finding
> > to be the best choice for their little birds?
> >  
>
> I'm still waiting on my last 2 replacement Optimas.
> The company has
> been rather slow in shipping them this time.  (Like,
> they haven't
> shipped yet after 3 weeks!)
> IF these 2 are good (about a 50% chance of one of
> them being bad), that
> will make 18 batteries to find 13 good ones.
>
> I'm fairly certain that the reason the supplier says
> that Optimas are
> good and that they get very few returns, is that
> their customers don't
> actually test them, and won't notice when one has
> only 1/2 normal
> reserve capacity.  It still starts the engine!
>
> A Sparrow is pretty much stuck with Optimas or
> Orbitals, and Orbitals
> take some work to make them fit.
> I'm seriously looking into some of the LiFePo
> options, it's just a lot
> of money - again.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 31
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:42:54 -0800 (PST)
> From: Bob Bath <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Completed conversions using
> Belktronix system. EV
> Radio Show and EVS23
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
> <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Wanted to weigh in.
> I have Bryan's DCDC converter, and his e-meter power
> supply.  Both have been working flawlessly. If I was
> to do it over, I'd consider his controller, too!
> peace,
>
> --- EV Manny <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Erv,
> > I was impressed with the turnaround of my
> controller
> > (He received and
> > shipped back within the week).
> > Other than Ron whom I've exchanged emails with his
> > 88 Ford Ranger
> > ( http://www.belktronix.com/ronsranger.html ),
> and
> > the 1994 Ponitac
> > Grand Prix that is on the Belktronix site(
> > http://www.belktronix.com/pgpconv.html )
> > ; I know of no other completed conversions on the
> > road yet.
> >
> > There are some In-Progress conversions besides my
> > own in the EVAlbum
> > and the Belktronix site:
> >
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/644
> >
> > http://www.belktronix.com/jdtarusev.html
> >
> > http://www.belktronix.com/richev.html
> >
> > Hope that Helps,
> > Manny
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1117
> > http://EVorBust.blogspot.com
> >
> > PS.
> > The EV Centric Radio Show we were on to promote
> the
> > Electric Dragin
> > EVent is on line. The show had KD of SSI  and
> > PlasmaBoy's playful
> > challenge banter plus calls from Charles Whalen of
> > Florida's EAA to
> > promote the concurrent Battery Beach Burnout
> EVent.
> >
> >
>
http://totallymotorsports.com/kceo/you_auto_know112407.mp3

> >
> > and Finally:
> > >From EVS23 in Anaheim, CA
> > RADIO SHOW SUNDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2007 from 9:00 to
> > 11:00 A.M. (Pacific Time)
> > Connect to Electric-Drive with Electric Dragin',
> > Nilar Inc. & Plug-In
> > Conversions
> > www.electricdragin.com
> > www.nilar.com
> > www.pluginconversions.com
> >
> > Live broadcast by RPM Today on espn radio
> >
> > Listen Live Sunday from 9-11 am PT on your radio
> > dial at 800 AM or
> > internet connection at
> http://web.espnradio800.com
> >
> > Call-in Nation Wide at 866-377-6800
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/30/07, erv wrote:
> > > Hi Manny,
> > >
> > > I also purchased a system from Bryan at
> Belktronix
> > and received notice of the potential problem with
> > the controller - and a very decent promise of a
> > quick turn-around. I will be very interested in
> how
> > your conversion performs as you are ahead of me in
> > assembling things! Do you know of any other
> > Belktronix systems on the road?
> > >
> > > Erv
> > > 83 ford ranger
> > > 144v Belktronix
> > > WarP9
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic?  My $20
> "CiviWithACord" DVD shows footage of my '92 sedan,
> as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
>  ____
>                      __/__|__\ __
>   =D-------/    -  -         \
>                      'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came
> out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas
> for your kids?
>
>
>      
>
____________________________________________________________________________________

> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 32
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:49:40 -0800 (PST)
> From: Bob Bath <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Need advice selecting an
> electric vehicle
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID:
> <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> The 40 mile round trip is do-able in my Civvy, but
> the
> extra 10 mi. cushion is definitely not, especially
> if
> you really need 55 mph the whole way, and if the
> route
> is in the dead of winter...
>
> Sounds like you've converted before, so feel free to
> check out the website.  Let me know if I can help
> you.
> peace,
>
>
> --- Darrell S <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> > I am currently looking to purchase a car to
> replace
> > the conversion van I have
> > been driving. If my calculations are correct it is
> > costing me about 10-12
> > dollars to make the round trip from home to work
> and
> > back and it is time to
> > change things.
> >
> > I have a 40 mile round trip and I don't have
> access
> > to electricity to charge
> > the vehicle while at work. I would also like a 10
> > mile buffer on my range in
> > case I have to deviate from my usual route and run
> > an errand on the way
> > home.
> >
> > Also, any route that I take is going to require me
> > to drive at least 45mph
> > and if I take that route I will have to add a few
> > miles each way to get to
> > the back roads. I really need to be able to do 55.
>
> >
> > Is there any type of conversion combination that
> > will work given those
> > considerations?
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> >
>
http://www.nabble.com/Need-advice-selecting-an-electric-vehicle-tf4924590s25542.html#a14093707

> > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic?  My $20
> "CiviWithACord" DVD shows footage of my '92 sedan,
> as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
>  ____
>                      __/__|__\ __
>   =D-------/    -  -         \
>                      'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came
> out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas
> for your kids?
>
>
>      
>
____________________________________________________________________________________

> Be a better pen pal.
> Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See
> how.  http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 33
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:34:27 -0600
> From: Lee Hart <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt
> Frustrated????
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
>
> Keith wrote:
> > if someone wants to donate$250,000.00 we all could
> have a
> > lightweight composite  body-frame
>
> Morgan LaMoore replied:
>  > $250k is ridiculous! ... The solar car team makes
> molds for composite
>  > assembly, and the process costs less than
> $50,000!
>
> The $250,000 is for type of tooling and setup for
> mass production that
> Solectria wanted to use. Something that could turn
> out thousands of
> cars. We could have bought the Solectria molds, but
> didn't want them.
>
> You have to walk before you can run. First build
> one. Then ten. Then a
> hundred. We'll worry about mass production tooling
> *after* we've sold
> enough cars to know what's needed.
>
> Pete [hidden email] added:
>  > Well boys, here is an opportunity to have a
> Sunrise EV and start a
>  > Co-op at the same time. Just get 250 members to
> sign up for $1000 each
>  > and all will be able to help build and sell a new
> Sunrise. Each would
>  > then be part owner and if it got off the ground
> all would stand a
>  > chance to make some serious money.
>
> Glenn Saunders responded:
>  > So everyone donates their $1,000 and the mold
> gets purchased.  Then
>  > what?  I would really want to see a concrete
> business plan that maps
>  > things out in detail all the way towards mass
> production.  From what
>  > I've heard about this, it's really a hobby
> project.  It's not
>  > something likely to become a true business that
> would break even.
>
> "Aye, and there's the rub!" as Shakespeare would
> say. Right now, the
> Sunrise project *is* a hobby and not a business
> because we don't have a
> business plan that is likely to show a profit.
> Business school training
> says if there's no profit, don't do it!
>
> But I decided to go ahead anyway, because I think
> it's something that
> *needs* to be done, profit or no profit. I don't
> care if my Sunrise
> costs too much -- I want one anyway! I'll get one if
> I have to build it
> myself!
>
> And, I believe (but cannot prove to the accountants)
> that there are many
> more people that feel the same way. We want an
> electric car that works
> for us! It's good for us, good for our children,
> good for society, and
> good for the environment. We don't care if it's not
> good for Wall
> Street, or Big oil, or the auto makers. Important
> things are not
> measured in dollars.
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> [hidden email]
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> End of EV Digest, Vol 4, Issue 89
> *********************************
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev