Re: EV Digest, Vol 93, Issue 8

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Re: EV Digest, Vol 93, Issue 8

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
The million mile battery?

Most folks when informed with CATL or Tesla saying they have a million mile battery think its range miles are all on a single big charge.
Nope! even at a projected $80/kwh at full production, not so LOL.
Truth be told, range anxiety will still be the dread as it was before.
Maybe the battery gets more range but that is slim consolation when driving from Helena, MT to Davenport, IA at 70 to 80 mph in peak summer or dead of winter.

Until I can see a reasonable alternative to paying $10k and up for a 22kwh batt pack for our boat, I will stick to 16 to 20 LA batts at $80 each that last 7 years under constant solar charging.

Technology is getting much closer and looking really great and exciting though.
When the day comes I will gladly make the switch.
http://mogcanalboat.com/      a private build boat.

George


On Jul 7, 2020, at 4:08 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

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>   1. LiFePO4 (EVDL Administrator)
>   2. Re: LiFePO4 (Willie)
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2020 03:43:14 -0400
> From: "EVDL Administrator" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [EVDL] LiFePO4
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> While I was looking for other information a couple of days ago, I ran across
> something on the web that surprised me.  I didn't follow up at the time and
> now I've lost track of where it was, but maybe someone else here knows
> something about it.
>
> The post or article I saw claimed that Tesla's supposedly-upcoming much-
> discussed "million mile battery" is lithium iron phosphate chemistry.
>
> LiFePO4 was something of an EV holy grail 15-20 years ago.  Valence was
> offering their Saphion phosphate-based lithium modules around 2002.  A123
> was also an early LiFePO4 booster.  Both claimed long cycle life and
> improved safety, and A123s were also known for ferocious specific power.
>
> When the cheap and cheerful Chinese low-power versions from Thundersky,
> CALB, and others started to appear in the States, a lot of them went into EV
> conversions.  You can find discussions about this in the EVDL archive around
> 2006-2009.
>
> If memory serves, the main downside to LiFePO4 was specific energy.  It just
> wasn't as good as what cobalt and manganese based chemistries offered.  
>
> I also seem to recall some kind of patent-related LiFePO4 problem.  This may
> have been the reason that hobbyists jumped on the cheap and cheerful Chinese
> LiFePO4 cells from Thundersky, CALB, and the like.  Again dredging up from
> memory, I think that hose companies somehow (allegedly) made an end run
> around the patent and licensing concerns.
>
> Now, if I'm not mistaken, Tesla's development partner in the "million mile
> battery" is a Chinese firm.  That's ... uh ... interesting.
>
> So has the EV world rehabilitated lithium iron phosphate's reputation?  Has
> its specific energy problem been solved?  What about licensing and patents?
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
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>     A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars.
>     It's where the rich use public transportation.
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 17:57:23 -0500
> From: Willie <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>
>
> On 7/7/20 2:43 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
>
>> I also seem to recall some kind of patent-related LiFePO4 problem.  This may
>> have been the reason that hobbyists jumped on the cheap and cheerful Chinese
>> LiFePO4 cells from Thundersky, CALB, and the like.  Again dredging up from
>> memory, I think that hose companies somehow (allegedly) made an end run
>> around the patent and licensing concerns.
>>
>> Now, if I'm not mistaken, Tesla's development partner in the "million mile
>> battery" is a Chinese firm.  That's ... uh ... interesting.
>>
>> So has the EV world rehabilitated lithium iron phosphate's reputation?  Has
>> its specific energy problem been solved?  What about licensing and patents?
>
> I suppose, like NiMH, the patents on LPF are no longer in effect.  But,
> I don't know that for sure.
>
> CATL is to the the supplier of LFP batteries for Chinese Teslas.  I
> don't think it is known whether those batteries will be offered
> elsewhere in the world.  Presumably, there has been much progress on LFP
> cells.  Though, I don't think the "million mile" cells will be LFP.  Or,
> maybe I'm wrong.
>
> There is much buzz about a Tesla battery factory in California which is
> rumored to be about to produce the better, "million mile", cells.
>
> Short story: no one knows for sure.  That is why we are eagerly awaiting
> Battery Day.
>
> Jack Rickard has the view that Tesla is wary of "the Osborne" effect and
> will not formally introduce vastly improved cells until they are being
> manufactured.
>
>
>
>
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> End of EV Digest, Vol 93, Issue 8
> *********************************

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