Re: EV scam example - sellers beware.

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
15 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: EV scam example - sellers beware.

Danny Miller-2
It's ubiquitous.  And apparently there are enough people who fall for it to make it worth sending out these emails.
In most cases the scammer is not personally sending these out, there's an automated bot which scans Craigslist, etc and autoresponds to the ad with this scripted letter.  In many cases it even just refers to it as "the item".

In case you're wondering what the scam is, the money order or cashier's check will be bogus but not many people realize that they can be bogus.  It could take weeks for your bank to reject it and debit your account.  The scam part is that they give some nonsense reason why they sent you a $2,000 overpayment, OR they wait long enough for you to have deposited it and then say "oh I'm sorry we decided to stay in Europe and cannot pick up the item, please write me a check for the money less $1,000 to keep for your troubles".  So they get an $8,000 check you wrote, cash it and run, you think you have a $1,000 credit then the bank bounces the fake M.O. and debits your account $9,000.  You will NOT be able to get the bank to give you anything back.

If you put an ad on Craigslist or anywhere else, you will usually get several of these.

There's no point in trying to respond to them that you know you're onto them or to try to talk them into a "proper" payment scheme.  There's not even anyone on the other end.

Danny

---- EVDL Administrator <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is an old scam, certainly not limited to EVs.  It's been given a fair
> amount of publicity over the last 5-10 years, and I would have thought most
> people would have been aware of it by now - but perhaps not.
>
> David Roden
> EVDL Administrator
> http://www.evdl.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: EV scam example - sellers beware.

Mark Grasser
After selling 2 cars and a motor home this last year and seeing this scam
twice with just my neighbors (One went so far as to receive the certified
bank check, yes it was fake) I have come to the conclusion that the only way
I will sell a car from here on out is by cash. You NEED to know that if you
deposit any form of a check or money order into an American bank account you
won't get the bounce back for close to three weeks, by then your car is long
gone and NOWHERE to be found.
Mark Grasser

 
 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: EV scam example - sellers beware.

John Lussmyer
Mark Grasser wrote:
> After selling 2 cars and a motor home this last year and seeing this scam
> twice with just my neighbors (One went so far as to receive the certified
> bank check, yes it was fake) I have come to the conclusion that the only way
> I will sell a car from here on out is by cash. You NEED to know that if you
> deposit any form of a check or money order into an American bank account you
> won't get the bounce back for close to three weeks, by then your car is long
> gone and NOWHERE to be found.
>  

Heck, my normal response to anyone that wants to pay via check is that
all checks are deposited, and there will be a 4 week hold on the vehicle.
The scammers stop responding quite quickly when you do that.

Though I am tempted to start making them send the fake checks before I
tell them about the hold.  At least force them to start wasting postage.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: EV scam example - sellers beware.

Peter VanDerWal
> Though I am tempted to start making them send the fake checks before I
> tell them about the hold.  At least force them to start wasting postage.

Better yet, tell them the check never arrived.  See how many times you can
make the morons mail you a new fake check.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: EV scam example - sellers beware.

Eduardo K.
In reply to this post by Danny Miller-2
You are kidding me right? 3 weeks for a bounce? Down here checks bounce in half a day!



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Grasser <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, 26 February 2008 05:24 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV scam example - sellers beware.

After selling 2 cars and a motor home this last year and seeing this scam
twice with just my neighbors (One went so far as to receive the certified
bank check, yes it was fake) I have come to the conclusion that the only way
I will sell a car from here on out is by cash. You NEED to know that if you
deposit any form of a check or money order into an American bank account you
won't get the bounce back for close to three weeks, by then your car is long
gone and NOWHERE to be found.
Mark Grasser

 
 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: EV scam example - sellers beware.

Paul-329
In reply to this post by Peter VanDerWal
The only way to sell a high value item is cash or bank wire transfer  
directly into your account.

AFAIK there is no way to undue a wire transfer, and it's a lot safer/
smarter than carrying a big stack of $100 bills to your bank.


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: EV scam example - sellers beware.

John Lussmyer
In reply to this post by Eduardo K.
Eduardo K. wrote:
> You are kidding me right? 3 weeks for a bounce? Down here checks bounce in half a day!
>  

The scammers send a Cashiers Check drawn on a foreign bank.
Your (United States) bank is legally required to release the funds to
you in 3 days.  The check won't bounce back from the foreign bank for 3
weeks.  At that time, your bank sucks the funds back out of your account.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: EV scam example - sellers beware.

Eduardo K.
On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 07:30:11PM -0800, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> Eduardo K. wrote:
> > You are kidding me right? 3 weeks for a bounce? Down here checks bounce in half a day!
> >  
>
> The scammers send a Cashiers Check drawn on a foreign bank.
> Your (United States) bank is legally required to release the funds to
> you in 3 days.  The check won't bounce back from the foreign bank for 3
> weeks.  At that time, your bank sucks the funds back out of your account.
>

ah... foreign check... ok... I cannot even deposit those here :)

(I have to cash them, and they charge around US$90 for doing it)


--
Eduardo K.           | Some say it's forgive and forget.
http://www.carfun.cl |  I say forget about forgiving just accept.
http://ev.nn.cl      |  And get the hell out of town.
                     |                      Minnie Driver, Grosse Point Blank

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: EV scam example - sellers beware.

Bob Rice-2
In reply to this post by John Lussmyer

----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV scam example - sellers beware.


> Eduardo K. wrote:
>> You are kidding me right? 3 weeks for a bounce? Down here checks bounce
>> in half a day!
>>
>
> The scammers send a Cashiers Check drawn on a foreign bank.
> Your (United States) bank is legally required to release the funds to
> you in 3 days.  The check won't bounce back from the foreign bank for 3
> weeks.  At that time, your bank sucks the funds back out of your account.

   But IF you were to CASH the check AWAY from your friendly bank, they
couldn't suck your account dry?When it bounced YOU would have the CASH in
your hot little hands?Missing something, here? They would go after the
crooks that POSTED the bum Cashiers check? No?

    Bob
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: EV scam example - sellers beware.

John Lussmyer
Bob Rice wrote:
>    But IF you were to CASH the check AWAY from your friendly bank, they
> couldn't suck your account dry?When it bounced YOU would have the CASH in
> your hot little hands?Missing something, here? They would go after the
> crooks that POSTED the bum Cashiers check? No?
>  

You know somebody that will cash a $5000 Foreign Cashiers check for
you?  Lucky you!
And the crooks that posted the check are probably in another country, so
going after them is a waste of time.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: EV scam example - sellers beware.

Danny Miller-2
In reply to this post by Danny Miller-2
Also if I understand correctly the cashier's check/money order is usually fraudulent, not "insufficient funds".  This is different.  It is a forged document but it may have routing numbers copied from a real bank.  

This probably gets dishonored in a different way than bounced checks.  With a bounced check the funds are compared with what's in the account and that's that.  With a forgery, the bank may have to get the document in its physical possession and compare it with records of what checks were actually written to realize the forgery, which may be a more lengthy process.

Being drawn on a foreign bank would greatly increase the time required as well.

BTW, fun true story that tours banking law:
http://www.goodthink.com/$$tablecontents.html
Broke kid gets bored and deposits a fake "junk mail" check for $95,093 and the bank misses their legal 30-day deadline to dishonor the check (there IS a deadline).  Once that deadline is passed they cannot legally rescind the transaction and debit his account, because the law doesn't want banks to get lazy and come back a year later and say a check was no good.  It has a concrete deadline.  But he's already taken out a cashier's check for the deposit and placed it his a safety deposit box at the very same bank which frustrates the hell outta them.  They can't legally cancel the cashier's check and they can't legally break into his box even though it's right there.

Danny

---- "John G. Lussmyer" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Eduardo K. wrote:
> > You are kidding me right? 3 weeks for a bounce? Down here checks bounce in half a day!
> >  
>
> The scammers send a Cashiers Check drawn on a foreign bank.
> Your (United States) bank is legally required to release the funds to
> you in 3 days.  The check won't bounce back from the foreign bank for 3
> weeks.  At that time, your bank sucks the funds back out of your account.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: EV scam example - sellers beware.

joe-22
In reply to this post by Bob Rice-2
Wrong, Bob - most banks won't accept 2 party checks over a certain amount
anymore!

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [hidden email]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV scam example - sellers beware.


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV scam example - sellers beware.
>
>
>> Eduardo K. wrote:
>>> You are kidding me right? 3 weeks for a bounce? Down here checks bounce
>>> in half a day!
>>>
>>
>> The scammers send a Cashiers Check drawn on a foreign bank.
>> Your (United States) bank is legally required to release the funds to
>> you in 3 days.  The check won't bounce back from the foreign bank for 3
>> weeks.  At that time, your bank sucks the funds back out of your account.
>
>   But IF you were to CASH the check AWAY from your friendly bank, they
> couldn't suck your account dry?When it bounced YOU would have the CASH in
> your hot little hands?Missing something, here? They would go after the
> crooks that POSTED the bum Cashiers check? No?
>
>    Bob
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1301 - Release Date: 2/27/2008
> 8:35 AM
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: EV scam example - sellers beware.

Bob Rice-2
In reply to this post by John Lussmyer

----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV scam example - sellers beware.


> Bob Rice wrote:
>>    But IF you were to CASH the check AWAY from your friendly bank, they
>> couldn't suck your account dry?When it bounced YOU would have the CASH in
>> your hot little hands?Missing something, here? They would go after the
>> crooks that POSTED the bum Cashiers check? No?
>>
>
> You know somebody that will cash a $5000 Foreign Cashiers check for
> you?  Lucky you!

    Hi John;

    Yeah! Yur right, nowadaze yur treated like a criminal cashing ANY check,
at a bank!
 I guess banking rules are laxer in lower Slobovia, or where these guyz
operate?You can GET a Cashiers check WITHOUT any assets?

    Bob
> And the crooks that posted the check are probably in another country, so
> going after them is a waste of time.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: EV scam example - sellers beware.

EVDL Administrator
In reply to this post by Danny Miller-2
Folks, this thread is entertaining, but it wasn't really specific to EVs
from the start, and it's now headed into general chat board territory.

I think the advisory has been more than effectively delivered.  Could we
please end this thread now?

Thanks.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: EV scam example - sellers beware.

Victor Tikhonov
In reply to this post by Peter VanDerWal
Or, better yet, tel them you got the check but it happen to
be a fake one by their mistake, and ask for real one this time ...

Or to reduce their trouble mailing paper, just accept direct
wire transfer from their account to yours...

Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> Though I am tempted to start making them send the fake checks before I
>> tell them about the hold.  At least force them to start wasting postage.
>
> Better yet, tell them the check never arrived.  See how many times you can
> make the morons mail you a new fake check.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev