Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes

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Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes

Mark Eidson
Finally some good news.  Arizona MVD Enforcement decided that they
could inspect my bike,
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1231 and assign and
apply a Special AZ Vehicle Number.  I took the inspection documents to
a different location where they added up my receipts to determine the
amount of Motor Vehicle Bond I would have to get before I could get my
title.  The Bond is required since there was no previous documentation
for the vehicle and is refundable after 3 years.  The Bond was for
1.5x the sum of the receipts.  So I'm off to my insurance agent to get
the bond and insurance.  The bond cost 1% of the 1.5x total......about
$100 and thanks to the recommendations of this group the 13HP Electric
Motorcycle was easily added to my current home and car package with
State Farm with all the same coverages.  Then I'm back to MVD to get
the title and liscense to be pleasently supprised with the $9.25
registration fee and no smog test requirement.  AZ seems to be a bit
more progressive that I anticipated.  If it does not look like rain
tommorow I finally get to drive it to work.  me

On 8/1/07, Roger Stockton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Mark Eidson wrote:
>
> > If I use the formula someone suggested earlier it has a 72V x 1000A x
> > 1.341 = 96.5HP.  I guess that will be enough for highway use........
>
> If your goal is to come up with an impressive-sounding number to get the
> bike licensed, this will work, but it is nowhere near the power you
> actually have available.
>
> At 1000A, your pack will sag to something between nominal and perhaps
> half that, so something in the 36-72V ballpark.  You've got Odyssey
> AGMs, so let's be generous and assume they sag to about 50V @ 1000A.
> This gives 50kW from the battery, or about 67HP, but doesn't account for
> losses.  A rule of thumb is to assume 1000W/HP to account for losses, so
> you're down to about 50 motor HP peak (and that is likely optimistic
> since the motor is probably nearer to 60% than 80% efficient at this
> current).
>
> But, 1000A is the max motor current your Z1K can deliver; >350A is what
> it can sustain continuously when hot/warm.  Unless the highway portion
> of your trip is quite short, an even more realistic estimate of your
> available power is more like 24.5kW (70V * 350A) at the battery, or
> about 24.5 motor HP.
>
> Looking at the thermal specs for your L91-4003 motor, it looks like it
> might be able to sustain this level for about 5min without overheating.
> The 1hr rating of 15HP @ 96V suggests that the 13HP (@ 72V) you stated
> to the inspector was a realistic and honest assessment.
>
> However, since gas engines are rated at peak output, I think that is the
> more appropriate value to quote in this situation; either use the stated
> value of 62HP @ 96V or extrapolate based on the published 96V and 120V
> data to arrive at 52HP @ 72V a a pretty realistic estimate of the peak
> power you can get from this motor in your application.
>
> So, tell the inspector it is a 50-52HP peak motor, but be aware that in
> actual highway use you are likely to be limited to somewhere between
> 13-24HP maximum for any length of time, and this will impact the speed
> you can maintain during those highway jaunts.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
>

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Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes

damon henry

Congratulations!
 
You have got a real eye catcher and it's electric to boot.  Now that you can get it out on the road you'll have all kinds of people take notice.
 
damon> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:44:25 -0700> From: [hidden email]> To: [hidden email]> Subject: Re: [EVDL] [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes> > Finally some good news. Arizona MVD Enforcement decided that they> could inspect my bike,> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1231 and assign and> apply a Special AZ Vehicle Number. I took the inspection documents to> a different location where they added up my receipts to determine the> amount of Motor Vehicle Bond I would have to get before I could get my> title. The Bond is required since there was no previous documentation> for the vehicle and is refundable after 3 years. The Bond was for> 1.5x the sum of the receipts. So I'm off to my insurance agent to get> the bond and insurance. The bond cost 1% of the 1.5x total......about> $100 and thanks to the recommendations of this group the 13HP Electric> Motorcycle was easily added to my current home and car package with> State Farm with all the same cov!
 erages. Then I'm back to MVD to get> the title and liscense to be pleasently supprised with the $9.25> registration fee and no smog test requirement. AZ seems to be a bit> more progressive that I anticipated. If it does not look like rain> tommorow I finally get to drive it to work. me> > On 8/1/07, Roger Stockton <[hidden email]> wrote:> > Mark Eidson wrote:> >> > > If I use the formula someone suggested earlier it has a 72V x 1000A x> > > 1.341 = 96.5HP. I guess that will be enough for highway use........> >> > If your goal is to come up with an impressive-sounding number to get the> > bike licensed, this will work, but it is nowhere near the power you> > actually have available.> >> > At 1000A, your pack will sag to something between nominal and perhaps> > half that, so something in the 36-72V ballpark. You've got Odyssey> > AGMs, so let's be generous and assume they sag to about 50V @ 1000A.> > This gives 50kW from the battery, or about 67HP, but doesn't account !
 for> > losses. A rule of thumb is to assume 1000W/HP to accoun!
 t for lo
sses, so> > you're down to about 50 motor HP peak (and that is likely optimistic> > since the motor is probably nearer to 60% than 80% efficient at this> > current).> >> > But, 1000A is the max motor current your Z1K can deliver; >350A is what> > it can sustain continuously when hot/warm. Unless the highway portion> > of your trip is quite short, an even more realistic estimate of your> > available power is more like 24.5kW (70V * 350A) at the battery, or> > about 24.5 motor HP.> >> > Looking at the thermal specs for your L91-4003 motor, it looks like it> > might be able to sustain this level for about 5min without overheating.> > The 1hr rating of 15HP @ 96V suggests that the 13HP (@ 72V) you stated> > to the inspector was a realistic and honest assessment.> >> > However, since gas engines are rated at peak output, I think that is the> > more appropriate value to quote in this situation; either use the stated> > value of 62HP @ 96V or extrapolate based on the published 96V !
 and 120V> > data to arrive at 52HP @ 72V a a pretty realistic estimate of the peak> > power you can get from this motor in your application.> >> > So, tell the inspector it is a 50-52HP peak motor, but be aware that in> > actual highway use you are likely to be limited to somewhere between> > 13-24HP maximum for any length of time, and this will impact the speed> > you can maintain during those highway jaunts.> >> > Cheers,> >> > Roger.> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________> For subscription options, see> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
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Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes

Alan Brinkman
In reply to this post by Mark Eidson
Mark,

Have a great day tomorrow!

No rain, Advanced DC L-91-4003, Zilla 1K, Hawker AGM's, 550 pound curb
weight.  A futuristic motorcycle that looks like it came off a set in
Hollywood, that works, that you built.  You may not get to ride as much
as you would like because people are going to stop you and ask tons of
questions.

Enjoy your machine,

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Mark Eidson
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:44 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes

Finally some good news.  Arizona MVD Enforcement decided that they
could inspect my bike,
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1231 and assign and
apply a Special AZ Vehicle Number.  I took the inspection documents to
a different location where they added up my receipts to determine the
amount of Motor Vehicle Bond I would have to get before I could get my
title.  The Bond is required since there was no previous documentation
for the vehicle and is refundable after 3 years.  The Bond was for
1.5x the sum of the receipts.  So I'm off to my insurance agent to get
the bond and insurance.  The bond cost 1% of the 1.5x total......about
$100 and thanks to the recommendations of this group the 13HP Electric
Motorcycle was easily added to my current home and car package with
State Farm with all the same coverages.  Then I'm back to MVD to get
the title and liscense to be pleasently supprised with the $9.25
registration fee and no smog test requirement.  AZ seems to be a bit
more progressive that I anticipated.  If it does not look like rain
tommorow I finally get to drive it to work.  me

On 8/1/07, Roger Stockton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Mark Eidson wrote:
>
> > If I use the formula someone suggested earlier it has a 72V x 1000A
x
> > 1.341 = 96.5HP.  I guess that will be enough for highway use........
>
> If your goal is to come up with an impressive-sounding number to get
the
> bike licensed, this will work, but it is nowhere near the power you
> actually have available.
>
> At 1000A, your pack will sag to something between nominal and perhaps
> half that, so something in the 36-72V ballpark.  You've got Odyssey
> AGMs, so let's be generous and assume they sag to about 50V @ 1000A.
> This gives 50kW from the battery, or about 67HP, but doesn't account
for
> losses.  A rule of thumb is to assume 1000W/HP to account for losses,
so
> you're down to about 50 motor HP peak (and that is likely optimistic
> since the motor is probably nearer to 60% than 80% efficient at this
> current).
>
> But, 1000A is the max motor current your Z1K can deliver; >350A is
what
> it can sustain continuously when hot/warm.  Unless the highway portion
> of your trip is quite short, an even more realistic estimate of your
> available power is more like 24.5kW (70V * 350A) at the battery, or
> about 24.5 motor HP.
>
> Looking at the thermal specs for your L91-4003 motor, it looks like it
> might be able to sustain this level for about 5min without
overheating.
> The 1hr rating of 15HP @ 96V suggests that the 13HP (@ 72V) you stated
> to the inspector was a realistic and honest assessment.
>
> However, since gas engines are rated at peak output, I think that is
the
> more appropriate value to quote in this situation; either use the
stated
> value of 62HP @ 96V or extrapolate based on the published 96V and 120V
> data to arrive at 52HP @ 72V a a pretty realistic estimate of the peak
> power you can get from this motor in your application.
>
> So, tell the inspector it is a 50-52HP peak motor, but be aware that
in

> actual highway use you are likely to be limited to somewhere between
> 13-24HP maximum for any length of time, and this will impact the speed
> you can maintain during those highway jaunts.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes

Go@GoWheel.com
In reply to this post by Mark Eidson
Mark,
Congrats!  Fine looking vehicle construction and
license perseverance.
[hidden email] & GoWheel staff

--- Mark Eidson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Finally some good news.  Arizona MVD Enforcement
decided that they could inspect my bike,
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1231
and assign and apply a Special AZ Vehicle Number.  I
took the inspection documents to a different location
where they added up my receipts to determine the
amount of Motor Vehicle Bond I would have to get
before I could get my title.  The Bond is required
since there was no previous documentation for the
vehicle and is refundable after 3 years.
The Bond was for 1.5x the sum of the receipts.  So I'm
off to my insurance agent to get the bond and
insurance.  The bond cost 1% of the 1.5x
total......about $100 and thanks to the
recommendations of this group the 13HP Electric
Motorcycle was easily added to my current home and
car package with State Farm with all the same
coverages.  Then I'm back to MVD to get
the title and liscense to be pleasently supprised
with the $9.25 registration fee and no smog test
requirement.  AZ seems to be a bit more progressive
that I anticipated.  If it does not look like rain
tommorow I finally get to drive it to work.  me



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/

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Re: [ElectricMotorcycles] Inspection Woes

Mark Eidson
You are correct, it took me 20 minutes to get out of the parking
garage this morning and that was at 7AM.  me

On 8/15/07, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Mark,
> Congrats!  Fine looking vehicle construction and
> license perseverance.
> [hidden email] & GoWheel staff
>
> --- Mark Eidson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Finally some good news.  Arizona MVD Enforcement
> decided that they could inspect my bike,
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1231
> and assign and apply a Special AZ Vehicle Number.  I
> took the inspection documents to a different location
> where they added up my receipts to determine the
> amount of Motor Vehicle Bond I would have to get
> before I could get my title.  The Bond is required
> since there was no previous documentation for the
> vehicle and is refundable after 3 years.
> The Bond was for 1.5x the sum of the receipts.  So I'm
> off to my insurance agent to get the bond and
> insurance.  The bond cost 1% of the 1.5x
> total......about $100 and thanks to the
> recommendations of this group the 13HP Electric
> Motorcycle was easily added to my current home and
> car package with State Farm with all the same
> coverages.  Then I'm back to MVD to get
> the title and liscense to be pleasently supprised
> with the $9.25 registration fee and no smog test
> requirement.  AZ seems to be a bit more progressive
> that I anticipated.  If it does not look like rain
> tommorow I finally get to drive it to work.  me
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Need a vacation? Get great deals
> to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
> http://travel.yahoo.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
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