Re: Hot rodding a SepEx golf cart motor

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Re: Hot rodding a SepEx golf cart motor

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  Hi All,     I'm building some lightweight subcar EVs to demonstrate them as low cost transport plus I need long range EV transport until I get my 63 Vette looking EV  done and to get rid of my costly and FF van.      Just picked up 2 Ez-Go GCs for scrap but not checking they turned out to have 36vdc ADC sep/ex motors transverse on Spicer transaxles.   My question is how best to make them work at 5500-6k rpm on 48vdc Volt modules?      My thinking is a starting resistor and I have a variable 20 amp, 80vdc DC power supply to start up.     First hitting the first the power supply/field full on and then the start solenoid , then short out the resistor and then reduce the field to increase speed.      Other suggestions like anyone doing it with Kelly controllers, etc as long as not too costly.  But I hear they need to be matched as other electronic ones do.       Anyone know the gear ratio on these Spicer transaxles, 1983??             Thanks,                    Jerry Dycus





   
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Re: Hot rodding a SepEx golf cart motor

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Hey Jerry

I would give Carl over at Evdrives a call, he should be able to recommend
something cost effective.  I have a couple 96 ezgos that I fixed one up for
my pig.  Originally one came with an aftermarket 36/48 Alltrax controller
which was running at 36v.  I replaced the dead batteries with a 48v pack,
motor had no issues running at that voltage but the used controller failed
within a couple months.  I replaced it with an Alltrax series controller
and D&D motor.  Shunt controllers are usually more expensive then series
controllers.  The EZGO TXT I have has a Spicer diff as well, not sure of
the exact ratios, you can get high speed gear sets but they are pricey
IMO.  The bolt pattern on my spicer axles is 4 x100 so larger rims from an
ATV or Civic would also give you more distance per turn.  Watch how much
load you put on those sealed motors, most are Iron cased and dissipate heat
poorly.  I have a thermostat and fan on mine now.

Cheers
Dan

On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:53 AM, jerry freedomev via EV <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
>   Hi All,     I'm building some lightweight subcar EVs to demonstrate them
> as low cost transport plus I need long range EV transport until I get my 63
> Vette looking EV  done and to get rid of my costly and FF van.      Just
> picked up 2 Ez-Go GCs for scrap but not checking they turned out to have
> 36vdc ADC sep/ex motors transverse on Spicer transaxles.   My question is
> how best to make them work at 5500-6k rpm on 48vdc Volt modules?      My
> thinking is a starting resistor and I have a variable 20 amp, 80vdc DC
> power supply to start up.     First hitting the first the power
> supply/field full on and then the start solenoid , then short out the
> resistor and then reduce the field to increase speed.      Other
> suggestions like anyone doing it with Kelly controllers, etc as long as not
> too costly.  But I hear they need to be matched as other electronic ones
> do.       Anyone know the gear ratio on these Spicer transaxles, 1983??
>          Thanks,                    Jerry Dycus
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Hot rodding a SepEx golf cart motor

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Re: Hot rodding a SepEx golf cart motor

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list

     Hi Dan and All,            Looked at EVDRive and interesting but I was trying to find a lower cost solution.              Interesting a motor for the Spicer unit gets about 17% more speed so hopefully means a lower ratio.               As for 6.7" lasting I've been abusing them for decades now and they take it well normally running at 2 x rated power even in Florida heat with a fan.              I'm planning a very low drag EV, 60-80wthr/mile so even at 50mph if the gearing lets it should be a problem.  I normally tow a 1k lb loaded trailer behind my EV trike pickup using the series version.               And I already do use 14" LRR tires    Are you sure your bolt pattern isn't  4"x4" instead?    There are like 4  4 lug bolt patterns within 4mm of each other.                    Still need an answer on this if it'll work,    First hitting the  the power
> supply/field full on and then the start solenoid with resistor inline, then short out the
> resistor and then reduce the field to increase speed.?           Thanks,                Jerry Dycus

      From: Dan Baker via EV <[hidden email]>
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Cc: Dan Baker <[hidden email]>
 Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 2:24 PM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hot rodding a SepEx golf cart motor
   
Hey Jerry

I would give Carl over at Evdrives a call, he should be able to recommend
something cost effective.  I have a couple 96 ezgos that I fixed one up for
my pig.  Originally one came with an aftermarket 36/48 Alltrax controller
which was running at 36v.  I replaced the dead batteries with a 48v pack,
motor had no issues running at that voltage but the used controller failed
within a couple months.  I replaced it with an Alltrax series controller
and D&D motor.  Shunt controllers are usually more expensive then series
controllers.  The EZGO TXT I have has a Spicer diff as well, not sure of
the exact ratios, you can get high speed gear sets but they are pricey
IMO.  The bolt pattern on my spicer axles is 4 x100 so larger rims from an
ATV or Civic would also give you more distance per turn.  Watch how much
load you put on those sealed motors, most are Iron cased and dissipate heat
poorly.  I have a thermostat and fan on mine now.

Cheers
Dan

On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:53 AM, jerry freedomev via EV <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
>  Hi All,    I'm building some lightweight subcar EVs to demonstrate them
> as low cost transport plus I need long range EV transport until I get my 63
> Vette looking EV  done and to get rid of my costly and FF van.      Just
> picked up 2 Ez-Go GCs for scrap but not checking they turned out to have
> 36vdc ADC sep/ex motors transverse on Spicer transaxles.  My question is
> how best to make them work at 5500-6k rpm on 48vdc Volt modules?      My
> thinking is a starting resistor and I have a variable 20 amp, 80vdc DC
> power supply to start up.    First hitting the first the power
> supply/field full on and then the start solenoid , then short out the
> resistor and then reduce the field to increase speed.      Other
> suggestions like anyone doing it with Kelly controllers, etc as long as not
> too costly.  But I hear they need to be matched as other electronic ones
> do.      Anyone know the gear ratio on these Spicer transaxles, 1983??
>          Thanks,                    Jerry Dycus
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Hot rodding a SepEx golf cart motor

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On 1 Jan 2018 at 10:03, evdragracer--- via EV wrote:

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=====

I have 2 sepex vehicles.

A circuit diagram might be clearer, but hopefully words work OK:

On my tractor:

Keyswitch turns on field relay

field relay hooks up field to a 12V battery

The field lead is wrapped around a proximity reed switch (used in alarm
systems to see if a door or window is closed, the switch changes state when
a magnet gets close enough to it). The wraps of wire provide the "magnet" to
close the reed switch.

Current in the field closes the proximity reed switch

The proximity reed switch turns on a contactor relay that feeds the armature
through a big, high power current limiting resistor

The proximity reed switch also feeds a delay relay

After about 1 second the delay relay feeds a contactor that shorts the
current limiting resistor

Don't forget to put a big diode on the field, otherwise you'll get a big arc
when you shut off.

It is amazingly smooth, I can start in gear and the tractor takes off very
smoothly. Idle RPM is about 3600 rpm. I get regen down hills. The tractor
has a variable speed transmission so I don't need to change motor speed. If
I did, I would put in a welder rheostat in series with the field.

I also have a car with a sepex. It has a Kelly 144V sepex controller. The
controller needs to have been ordered with the appropriate current range for
your field. My first motor had low field resistance, the Kelly worked well
for that. For my new higher resistance field motor, I can't get the Kelly
field current to go low enough, so I have to run in "Voltage Mode" for the
field, which means no field weakening. It still works pretty well, but that
cuts off my higher RPM. If I could get to the field current sense resistor I
could fool it to work at lower field current (it's potted, I'm reluctant to
remove the potting compound).

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: Hot rodding a SepEx golf cart motor

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jerry freedomev via EV wrote:
> Hi Dan and All,
 >
 > Looked at EVDRive and interesting but I was trying to find a lower
 > cost solution...

I think we can help you there. Controlling a Sepex motor is almost as
easy as a series motor. :-)

> As for 6.7" lasting I've been  abusing them for decades now and they
 > take it well normally running at 2 x rated power even in Florida heat
 > with a fan.

I agree. My ComutaVan, and my LeCar both had 6.7" motors. I never had a
bit of trouble with them failing or overheating. Of course, I live in
Minnesota. But you can easily add an external blower for cooling.

You might also try Bob Rice's solution. He used *two* golf cart motors,
one per wheel. He switched them in series/parallel, to effectively have
a 2-speed transmission. It also eliminated the differential.

> I'm planning a very low drag  EV, 60-80wthr/mile so even at 50mph if
 > the gearing lets it should be a problem.

You can also tweak the ratio with tire size, as you said.

> First hitting the power  supply/field full on and then the start
 > solenoid with resistor inline, then short out the resistor and then
 > reduce the field to increase speed?

Yes, that's what I did for my very first EV. It was a 1974 Datsun
pickup, with 72v of golf cart batteries in the bed, and a surplus 30v
500a aircraft generator for a motor. This is in effect a sepex motor.

My homemade controller used a big rheostat to control the field current.
It was connected to the accelerator pedal. The armature was powered by a
contactor controller, which could apply 36v or 72, with or without a
series starting resistor.

It's important to wire it so you can't apply power to the armature
unless there is field current. In my case, I had a relay coil in series
with the field that had to be pulled in to enable power for the armature
controller's contactors. If I dig around a bit, I can probably find my
old controller schematic.

It was a very drive-able setup. Good speed control, smooth
accelleration, and very strong regenerative braking. However, it was
quite unlike any normal car's throttle response. The accellerator pedal
behaved more like a cruise control; moving it caused the motor to try
very hard to move to the new speed. In particular, removing your foot
from the accellerator pedal commanded *full regen*, which would lock the
tires on anything but dry pavement.

--
Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: Hot rodding a SepEx golf cart motor

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On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Lee Hart via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> jerry freedomev via EV wrote:
>
>> Hi Dan and All,
>>
> >
> > Looked at EVDRive and interesting but I was trying to find a lower
> > cost solution...
>
> I think we can help you there. Controlling a Sepex motor is almost as easy
> as a series motor. :-)
>
> As for 6.7" lasting I've been  abusing them for decades now and they
>>
> > take it well normally running at 2 x rated power even in Florida heat
> > with a fan.
>
> I agree. My ComutaVan, and my LeCar both had 6.7" motors. I never had a
> bit of trouble with them failing or overheating. Of course, I live in
> Minnesota. But you can easily add an external blower for cooling.
>


I have ad heat issues with my motors, likely from the continuous loads from
pushing the blower through deep snow.   An ammeter and digital thermostat
proved it- I would pull 100 amps continuous with peaks to 300 amps going up
our big hill.  You would think the motor would stay cool in -10 and the
occasional snow pile hitting it when backing up but the temps would hit
over 120c on the case  before I started actively cooling it.  As well,
without active cooling those temps would remain high for 2+ hours with the
cart shut down.   Smooth, sealed iron bodied motors that are tucked up
under the seat don't get much cooling.   If you are rolling down streets
without big hills there should be enough time between loading to dissipate
some heat but understand the heat takes a long to time to fade.  High
gearing and extra passengers will increase those temps.




>
> You might also try Bob Rice's solution. He used *two* golf cart motors,
> one per wheel. He switched them in series/parallel, to effectively have a
> 2-speed transmission. It also eliminated the differential.



Would love to see that setup!  I have two diffs and more than two motors in
parts..  I also have another MARS ME1003 I have been gearing up, have the
coupler made just need to finish the adapter mount.  It's an aluminum
bodied, open with an internal fan motor, much better cooling ability and
power output.
Does anyone know how much the dana/ spicer diffs can handle?  I can limit
the current at the controller so it doesn't grenade immediately.



>
> I'm planning a very low drag  EV, 60-80wthr/mile so even at 50mph if
>>
> > the gearing lets it should be a problem.
>
> You can also tweak the ratio with tire size, as you said.
>
> First hitting the power  supply/field full on and then the start
>>
> > solenoid with resistor inline, then short out the resistor and then
> > reduce the field to increase speed?
>
> Yes, that's what I did for my very first EV. It was a 1974 Datsun pickup,
> with 72v of golf cart batteries in the bed, and a surplus 30v 500a aircraft
> generator for a motor. This is in effect a sepex motor.
>
> My homemade controller used a big rheostat to control the field current.
> It was connected to the accelerator pedal. The armature was powered by a
> contactor controller, which could apply 36v or 72, with or without a series
> starting resistor.
>
> It's important to wire it so you can't apply power to the armature unless
> there is field current. In my case, I had a relay coil in series with the
> field that had to be pulled in to enable power for the armature
> controller's contactors. If I dig around a bit, I can probably find my old
> controller schematic.
>


I picked another golf cart this summer (defunct EGT electric) that has a
Curtis controller and a Hall pickup on the Sepex motor.  The controller
limits the current based on the hall pickup speed.



> It was a very drive-able setup. Good speed control, smooth accelleration,
> and very strong regenerative braking. However, it was quite unlike any
> normal car's throttle response. The accellerator pedal behaved more like a
> cruise control; moving it caused the motor to try very hard to move to the
> new speed. In particular, removing your foot from the accellerator pedal
> commanded *full regen*, which would lock the tires on anything but dry
> pavement.
>
> --
> Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
> our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
> and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> /NEDRA)
>
>
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