Re: How to do a Cross US EV trip, eff numbers

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Re: How to do a Cross US EV trip, eff numbers


          Hi Ed and All,
              Sadly people throw up problems that are not
ones. EVen worse when it's an EV'er.
               There are so many ways to skin this cat.
                Battery leasing/swapping is not bad now with
present lead tech  but shortly Li-ions will be in 100-200lb
packs making exchanging rather easy. One could run on 1 pack
which in Li-ion would only weigh about 200lbs for 100+ mile
range in the Freedom EV, Sunrise 2 or other built as EV's
will get. I doubt most future EV's will use over
175wthr/mile with ones like mine getting under 100wthr/mile.
Then add packs for long trips.
                Once Li price drops, 300+ mile range EV's
will be commonly available making long trips easy.

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Edward Ang" <[hidden email]>
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How to do a Cross US EV trip
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:48:43 -0800

>Say you have a 200kW charging station every 30 miles or so
>on the Interstates.  From the San Fancisco to LA is about
>400 miles.  You will need about 14 stations.  And, say 10
>cars (5 from each direction) are fuelling at the same time
>at each station at anytime, you will need to supply 200kW x
>10 x 14 = 28 MW.  This is only a short I5 from SF to LA.
>Now, imagine you want to cover the entire nations with
>these stations.  You electrical grid is simply not able to
>support this load.  FYI:  The typical peak electrical load
>this time of the year for the entire state of California is
>only 32,000 MW
>Now, try doing this in the summer time when the grid is
>maxed out.

        Been reading that Oil company propaganda again I see
        There are many ways this can be done by having
stations make their own power, not really hard or expensive.
When there is grid power available cheaply, they use it but
during peak, they make their own.
         Plus parked EV's thru VTG? charger/inverters supply
the grid for peak power needs including highway charging
EV's, means we may need less grid power, not more.
        This could be wind, solar, ect and storage or
biomass fired cogen, ect. I can think of many viable,
profitable ways to do this, just not a problem.
        Another would be a charge lane where EV's run along
a electric rail with an arm to get power for running and
charging from the EV to it. This wouldn't have to be the
full way, just when easy to do, with battery power between
rail stretches.
       Another could be coils under an EV lane that could
charge or pull the EV along as a linear motor with PM field
or coils lowering onto the road bed, charging thru regen,
among other ways.
      EV Semi's could use it too with those going downhill
powering those going up hill like electric trains do.

>Don't get me wrong.  I own an EV technology company
>(  And, I commute in my Nimh Sparrow (>
>40,000 miles now).  I fully support the EV cause.  I just
>don't think showing the weakest point of an EV is a wise
>way to promote EV's.  But, for long distant travels,
>nothing could beat the high energy density of a liquid

            I'm sorry but even at ICE's best, eff as highway
travel is, EV's are at least twice as eff/ energy/mile means
EV's will be the long distance choice. In city traffic EV's
are 3+x's as eff.
            Even in Lead batts we can do now with just
charge stations every 30 miles or so you can refill lead to
80% charged in 15 minutes, giving another 90 miles in the
Freedom's, other good EV's cases. About every 1.5 hr
traveling I like to stretch anyway and 15 minutes is not
much longer than it takes to pump gas.

>On the other hand, for local errands and for commuting,
>nothing beats the overnight charging in the comfort of the

          You leave out many would need another car as you
say, while by giving EV long distance capability you reduce
the extra car cost greatly by eliminating it.
          And EV's are the easiest to fuel directly from RE
you, your home can make, greatly lowering your energy costs.
          Last I check there was lots of free Fed, some
state money to build EV charging stations including the
power sources, especially if they are RE. I know Cal has
several programs for such including PIER grants.
          Ed, if want to limit EV's to local, you can count
me out on that. EV;s are the future of transport, whether
local or long distance because they are so much more eff.
          In the Freedom EV energy costs are about $.01/mile
at $.10/kwhr. That's 300mpg+ cost equivalent  and 160-400
mpg energy equivalent depending on electric source and the
eff you give it.
           Because of this EV's will be the best solution
and will drive tech to make it work.
           BTW the Prius gets it's eff from not running the
ICE when not needed  as much if not more than regen gives.
Why is most ICE's at idle takes more power to run than my
EV's take, will take to do 60mph!!

                                     Jerry Dycus

>> -------------- Original message --------------
>> From: "Edward Ang" <[hidden email]>
>> > I still don't see the point of trying to do a cross US
>> > EV trip. EV's are NOT designed to take long trips.
>> > Their advantages shine in local errands and commuting.
>> >
>> > This is like someone trying to promote a Hummer H2 by
>> > showing how it could be driven indoors without killing
>> > everyone from CO poisoning. This is not what it is
>> > designed to do. Not that it is designed for off-road
>> >use either. But, that is another story.
>> > On 1/3/08, jerryd wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Hi All,
>> > > It isn't that hard a thing to do, one could
>> > > even do it fairly fast in lead batts.
>> > > How is using a Sunrise, Freedom EV optimized
>> > > woul! d get u nder 100wthr/mile. The Sunrise EV for
>>range could
>> > > pack enough stock lead to get 150 mile usable range,
>> > > the Freedom about 120miles+. The Freedom might be
>> > > able to get as low as 70wthr/mile optimised at 55mph,
>> > > especially with a Li-ion pack.
>> > > Then you just need 30-50amp, 240vac outlets.
>> > > These could be arranged by say using campgrounds or
>> > > someone like 7-11, Walmart as sponsors for having the
>> > > power outlets ready. At 50 amps/240vac you can charge
>> > > at the 120mph rate so drive 1-2 hrs and charge .5-1hr
>> > > would with a co driver be able to cross the US in
>> > > about 100 hrs without any support vehicles.
>> > > Now using Li-ion both could easily carry a
>> > > 50kw pack allowing 400+ miles between charges though
>> > > they would take longer, about 4hrs.
>> > > With a little planning it could be easily done
>> > ! > on not much money. Other EV's could be an old or
>> > > race chassis under an Aero kitcar body could easily
>> > > do this or a Karman Ghia with li-ions.
>> > > The secret is a very low drag EV that can
>> > > carry 55% battery weight or more can do this on lead.
>> > >
>> > > The Aptera is a good group of people who are really
>> > > doing a good EV. I talked to, helped them with their
>> > > early EV drive problems and talked composites and was
>> > > impressed with them, their pragmatic approach. As far
>> > > as crash protection, probably not bad from the stuff
>> > > I learned about. The shape is a high speed racing
>> > > Human power vehicle one I believe they adopted.
>> > >
>> > > Jerry Dycus
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > ://

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