Re: Kelly Controller Owners (I DO have a contactor)

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Re: Kelly Controller Owners (I DO have a contactor)

Joel Sell
Sorry for all the confusion, but I most certainly *DO* have a main contactor set up to connect the pack to the controller when I have the key in the "on" position in the ignition.
ALONG WITH THE MAIN CONTACTOR, I also have an emergency disconnect in the middle of the pack that is manually operated. A theft deterrent of sorts. Even if someone hotwired the ignition, they couldn't go anywhere without the "key" to the emergency disconnect.
I followed Kelly's wiring diagram to a "T". Believe me, if it said to put a 12v actuated contactor between the pack and the controller, I DID. I figured that everyone had a contactor between the pack and the controller, so I didn't mention it in my original post.
So to recap: The van was OFF, (no power to the main contactor) and I disconnected the emergency disconnect. My kit only came with one contactor, so I put it between the B+ side of the controller and the positive side of the pack (as per the Kelly wiring diagram). I've seen cars where they have two contactors. My guess is one on the positive and negative sides...?
Does this change anyone's thoughts on how this could have happened?
Thanks for the suggestions,
Joel in Philly


     
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Re: Kelly Controller Owners (I DO have a contactor)

lcalarea47
hi what model number of kelly ?  is there a red flashing light blinking on
controller ?   lonnie

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Joel Sell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sorry for all the confusion, but I most certainly *DO* have a main
> contactor set up to connect the pack to the controller when I have the key
> in the "on" position in the ignition.
> ALONG WITH THE MAIN CONTACTOR, I also have an emergency disconnect in the
> middle of the pack that is manually operated. A theft deterrent of sorts.
> Even if someone hotwired the ignition, they couldn't go anywhere without the
> "key" to the emergency disconnect.
> I followed Kelly's wiring diagram to a "T". Believe me, if it said to put a
> 12v actuated contactor between the pack and the controller, I DID. I figured
> that everyone had a contactor between the pack and the controller, so I
> didn't mention it in my original post.
> So to recap: The van was OFF, (no power to the main contactor) and I
> disconnected the emergency disconnect. My kit only came with one contactor,
> so I put it between the B+ side of the controller and the positive side of
> the pack (as per the Kelly wiring diagram). I've seen cars where they have
> two contactors. My guess is one on the positive and negative sides...?
> Does this change anyone's thoughts on how this could have happened?
> Thanks for the suggestions,
> Joel in Philly
>
>
>
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Re: Kelly Controller Owners (I DO have a contactor)

Thor Johnson
In reply to this post by Joel Sell
I might see your problem then...

There's a precharge resistor across the main contactor; this will allow battery-charging voltage to be applied to the controller if you didn't pull the emergency disconnect.  The resistor prevents a high-current surge when the contactor closes (and won't let enough current through to power the car), but it will let 1A of any voltage through.

If you have another contactor on the - side of the battery, that isolates the battery from the controller so no current can flow.

Since your emergency disconnect is in the middle, how do you charge your pack?

-Thor



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joel Sell
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:34 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Kelly Controller Owners (I DO have a contactor)

Sorry for all the confusion, but I most certainly *DO* have a main contactor set up to connect the pack to the controller when I have the key in the "on" position in the ignition.
ALONG WITH THE MAIN CONTACTOR, I also have an emergency disconnect in the middle of the pack that is manually operated. A theft deterrent of sorts. Even if someone hotwired the ignition, they couldn't go anywhere without the "key" to the emergency disconnect.
I followed Kelly's wiring diagram to a "T". Believe me, if it said to put a 12v actuated contactor between the pack and the controller, I DID. I figured that everyone had a contactor between the pack and the controller, so I didn't mention it in my original post.
So to recap: The van was OFF, (no power to the main contactor) and I disconnected the emergency disconnect. My kit only came with one contactor, so I put it between the B+ side of the controller and the positive side of the pack (as per the Kelly wiring diagram). I've seen cars where they have two contactors. My guess is one on the positive and negative sides...?
Does this change anyone's thoughts on how this could have happened?
Thanks for the suggestions,
Joel in Philly


     
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Re: Kelly Controller Owners (I DO have a contactor)

Roger Stockton
In reply to this post by Joel Sell
Joel Sell wrote:

> Sorry for all the confusion, but I most certainly *DO* have a
> main contactor set up to connect the pack to the controller
> when I have the key in the "on" position in the ignition.
> ALONG WITH THE MAIN CONTACTOR, I also have an emergency
> disconnect in the middle of the pack that is manually
> operated. A theft deterrent of sorts. Even if someone
> hotwired the ignition, they couldn't go anywhere without the
> "key" to the emergency disconnect.
> I followed Kelly's wiring diagram to a "T". Believe me, if it
> said to put a 12v actuated contactor between the pack and the
> controller, I DID. I figured that everyone had a contactor
> between the pack and the controller, so I didn't mention it 
> in my original post.
> So to recap: The van was OFF, (no power to the main
> contactor) and I disconnected the emergency disconnect. My
> kit only came with one contactor, so I put it between the B+
> side of the controller and the positive side of the pack (as
> per the Kelly wiring diagram). I've seen cars where they have
> two contactors. My guess is one on the positive and negative
> sides...?

If I recall correctly, didn't your original post state that the vehicle was working fine when you parked it, but when you tried to drive after charging you found it dead?

If you disconnected the emergency disconnect when you parked the vehicle, then how could you charge have charged it?

If you turned off the main contactor when parked, the controller should not be exposed to the charging voltage... Provided the main contactor actually opened.  Have you verified that the contactor actually does break the connection between the battery and controller when you turn it off?  It may have failed closed.

Do you have a precharge resistor across the main contactor?  If you do, then the battery remains connected to the controller during charging unless you have an additional relay in series with the precharge resistor so that it is also disconnected from the battery when the key is off.

If you have a precharge resistor premanently connected across the main contactor, then even with the main contactor open and the emergenecy disconnect open, you will subject the controller to the charger output voltage.  If you connect the charger with the emergency disconnect open, then the charger cannot charge the battery and its output voltage may rise to its maximum, perhaps even higher than it gets when charging the battery.

Cheers,

Roger.

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Re: Kelly Controller Owners (I DO have a contactor)

Joel Sell
In reply to this post by Joel Sell
Ah, more confusion. I don't have a 120V charger. I have 10 12V chargers on board. 20 6v sam's club golf cart batteries, 2 batteries per charger. So the emergency cut off switch doesn't effect the charging (I think).
The pre-charge resistor. Funny how the Kelly manual requires it (they even include it with the controller)....
Lonnie- No red light. No green light. Nothing. DEAD.
In the spirit of full disclosure, Kelly replaced the controller, no questions asked. They had no suggestions on how this could have happened. I just want to figure out what happened so I can keep it from happening again, although I think the best answer I'm going to get is one I already know- get a Curtis or a Zilla.
Joel in Philly


     
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Re: Kelly Controller Owners (I DO have a contactor)

gottdi
Joel,

Maybe it was not anything you did at all. Maybe it just died. It is an  
electronic component and it can JUST die.

Good that Kelly stood by their product. They have always been good  
about that.


Pete :)





On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Joel Sell wrote:

> Ah, more confusion. I don't have a 120V charger. I have 10 12V  
> chargers on board. 20 6v sam's club golf cart batteries, 2 batteries  
> per charger. So the emergency cut off switch doesn't effect the  
> charging (I think).
> The pre-charge resistor. Funny how the Kelly manual requires it  
> (they even include it with the controller)....
> Lonnie- No red light. No green light. Nothing. DEAD.
> In the spirit of full disclosure, Kelly replaced the controller, no  
> questions asked. They had no suggestions on how this could have  
> happened. I just want to figure out what happened so I can keep it  
> from happening again, although I think the best answer I'm going to  
> get is one I already know- get a Curtis or a Zilla.
> Joel in Philly
>
>
>
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http://onegreenev.blogspot.com/
No need to wait any longer. You can now buy one off the shelf. You can still build one too.
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Re: Kelly Controller Owners (I DO have a contactor)

Roger Stockton
In reply to this post by Joel Sell
Joel Sell wrote:

> Ah, more confusion. I don't have a 120V charger. I have 10
> 12V chargers on board. 20 6v sam's club golf cart batteries,
> 2 batteries per charger. So the emergency cut off switch
> doesn't effect the charging (I think).

OK; with this configuration you can indeed charge with the disconnect open (provided it is between two of the chargers rather than between a pair of batteries tended by a single charger).

> The pre-charge resistor. Funny how the Kelly manual requires
> it (they even include it with the controller)....

The cynic in me says this is what happens when non-EVers build controllers.  It wouldn't surprise me greatly if Kelly had based their connection diagrams *very* closely after those Curtis provides (for their industrial applications).

A permanently connected precharge resistor is tolerable in a low-voltage system (think industrial vehicle), but is definitely not a recommended practice for igher-voltage/on-road EVs.

> Lonnie- No red light. No green light. Nothing. DEAD.
> In the spirit of full disclosure, Kelly replaced the
> controller, no questions asked. They had no suggestions on
> how this could have happened. I just want to figure out what
> happened so I can keep it from happening again, although I
> think the best answer I'm going to get is one I already know-
> get a Curtis or a Zilla.

Getting a different make of controller isn't necessarily going to help.

All controllers use parts that have maximum voltage limits that must be respected; switching to a controller with higher voltage-rated parts may keep you from killing the controller from over-voltage, at least until you increase the pack voltage to take advantage of the higher controller ratings... ;^>

I am fairly confident that what happened is that you killed the controller by subjecting it to voltage in excess of its ratings while charging.

I would suggest *not* opening the emergency disconnect while charging.  I would also suggest that you either install a second contactor on the other side of the pack than the main contactor or install an appropriately rated relay in series with the precharge resistor.  Whichever of these you choose, simply wire it so it turns on as soon as the ignition key is turned on.

This will ensure that your controller never sees the charge voltage.

Cheers,

Roger.

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