Re: Lithium ahrs vs Lead Acid ahrs/swappable packs......

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Re: Lithium ahrs vs Lead Acid ahrs/swappable packs......

David Beard
""Now, compare this to what a 175 lb. lithium pack of A123 cells did for
us. With about 1/5 the weight....1/5 the weight!...the lithium pack
propelled this same car to a low 11 second 1/4 mile @ 1400 amps max
current! The better ET is largely because the car dropped about 700 lbs.
in weight and yet had the same hp on tap. The more impressive part might
be the range per charge that this same tiny 175 lb. suitcase-size pack
delivered. We drove it 32 miles on one charge (home from the track and
back to the track the next day without a re-charge) and the pack's
voltage was still in good shape! This is amazing battery performance!

I've done the math after perusing the K2 website...less than 300 lbs. of
the K2 lithium cells like the 2.5 ahr ones Ian has tested,  stuffed in
the Zombie's trunk floor area they would make a 370+ volt pack that
might make between 1600-1800 instantaneous amps, a pack that would also
give 30 fully usable ahrs! At a mild 45 mph, this would be a whopping 90
miles range per charge in an EV that would rip 0-60 in 2.7 seconds and
run high 10 second 1/4 mile ETs!!! Even at 60 mph, the range would be
somewhere around 70 miles!

See Ya...John Wayland""

Now I don't know what John's car weight is with the 300lb pack, but I imagine it is about 2500lbs...a car that is half the weight would give about twice the range....so a 1250Lb Sunrise or Freedom EV would put you into the 150 miles per charge range and changing out 5 modules of 60Lbs a piece is very 'doable'.....now just have to work out the packaging and connections.....

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Re: Lithium ahrs vs Lead Acid ahrs/swappable packs......

Bob Rice-2
  Thanks John, for the great, readable tuitorial on Batteries! Or WHY they
are what they are. Led Acids SUCK! With that cleared up, it sure looks
promising the new stuff? Freedom and Sunrise will be in line to go through
the New K-2's or whatEVer they are called? WE wouldn't need to swap out
packs and all the regalia to do that? IF ya can dump in a quick charge, say
in half hour after a 200 mile run?You SHOULD get out, grab a cuppa coffee,
piss break, or crappy burger, or(Gasp!) a decent meal, an hour's worth for a
FULL charge, and go on your way, refreshed? You know IF Enough new 200 mpc
cars are running around out there enterpreneurs will start doing charging
stations and yur Garmin or Tom Tom will tell, nice sweet voice,  WHERE they
are, and , you, of course, As a good EV citizen,will patronize the place
with the charge plugs! We ALL may live to see that day, along when gas
rationing starts in? Or NO gas?

   Looks like 08 will be a hellova year?

    Seeya

    Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lithium ahrs vs Lead Acid ahrs/swappable packs......


> ""Now, compare this to what a 175 lb. lithium pack of A123 cells did for
> us. With about 1/5 the weight....1/5 the weight!...the lithium pack
> propelled this same car to a low 11 second 1/4 mile @ 1400 amps max
> current! The better ET is largely because the car dropped about 700 lbs.
> in weight and yet had the same hp on tap. The more impressive part might
> be the range per charge that this same tiny 175 lb. suitcase-size pack
> delivered. We drove it 32 miles on one charge (home from the track and
> back to the track the next day without a re-charge) and the pack's
> voltage was still in good shape! This is amazing battery performance!
>
> I've done the math after perusing the K2 website...less than 300 lbs. of
> the K2 lithium cells like the 2.5 ahr ones Ian has tested,  stuffed in
> the Zombie's trunk floor area they would make a 370+ volt pack that
> might make between 1600-1800 instantaneous amps, a pack that would also
> give 30 fully usable ahrs! At a mild 45 mph, this would be a whopping 90
> miles range per charge in an EV that would rip 0-60 in 2.7 seconds and
> run high 10 second 1/4 mile ETs!!! Even at 60 mph, the range would be
> somewhere around 70 miles!
>
> See Ya...John Wayland""
>
> Now I don't know what John's car weight is with the 300lb pack, but I
> imagine it is about 2500lbs...a car that is half the weight would give
> about twice the range....so a 1250Lb Sunrise or Freedom EV would put you
> into the 150 miles per charge range and changing out 5 modules of 60Lbs a
> piece is very 'doable'.....now just have to work out the packaging and
> connections.....
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Stop foreclosure.  Click here to stay in your home and rebuild credit.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4tZwGwIh5MBwp36bDaOb1Knuh2ReGWTeXtNIHtX1S1lMV4D9/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
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>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.28/1023 - Release Date:
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Re: Lithium ahrs vs Lead Acid ahrs/swappable packs......

John Wayland
In reply to this post by David Beard
Hello to All,

>Now I don't know what John's car weight is with the 300lb pack, but I imagine it is about 2500lbs...
>

We calculated the car's weight when we ran with the 175 lb. A123 pack,
very carefully weighing each item removed and/or added during the 'lead
acid to lithium' conversion process and by starting off knowing its
exact weight from having weighed the car previously on very accurate
digital scales at 2580 lbs. The A123 lithium version dropped down to a
feather-light 1858 lbs.! The weight difference if nothing else had been
changed other than going from a 840 lb. lead acid pack to a 175 lb.
lithium pack would have put the car a bit heavier at 1915 lbs., but
removed items like the rear seat area aluminum battery compartment with
its hold-own brackets and such, all those inter-connecting heavy copper
bus bars for the 60 12V lead acid modules, runs of fat and heavy
interconnect cabling not needed, plus the 28 lb. weight savings of
switching to an aluminum Strange differential, all made extra weight
savings possible. Though we did not weigh the car on the scales, I'd say
the 1858 lb. figure is accurate to plus or minus 10 lbs.

Excerpted from the above quoted line:

>...I imagine it is about 2500lbs...



I figured the math including the extra weight of the 6 point roll cage
the car now has and all, then subtracted the weight that will be removed
when we get the 4 link rear axle setup installed, then worked out other
weight gains and weight reductions that will be going on with wheel and
tire changes and even more design changes planned, and the estimated
weight of this theoretical car powered by a 300 lb. lithium pack comes
in a full 500 lbs. less than this 2500 lb. estimate, at between 1950 and
1980 lbs.

Approximately 500 battery horsepower, approximately 350 hp (at the motor
shaft) @ 772 ft. lbs. of torque, a proper 4 link rear end, wheelie bars,
and 10 inch wide sticky rubber in back beneath flared quarter panels,
all in a sub-2000 lb. fully street legal car....that sounds like fun, huh?

OK all you lithium battery companies out there, who's going step up and
put their name on the side of this car?

See Ya...John Wayland



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Re: Lithium ahrs vs Lead Acid ahrs/swappable packs......

David Beard
In reply to this post by David Beard
OK!

Now let's drop the weight.....composite windows, composite springs, composite wheels, carbon fiber drive shafts, composite fasteners....how many carbon fiber panels can you afford?

Ain't racin' fun!
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