Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino's as ads

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
19 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino's as ads

fred ungewitter
If there's going to be a noise requirement added to production electric vehicles, by all means, let's make it a joke. Having this requirement (noise, not joke) removes yet another level of responsibility from the driver to be in proper control of the motor vehicle. More than 30 years ago, we were taught that the operator is responsible for the safety of pedestrians, cyclists and other road users, without exception. Certainly today's driver has little thought of that concept. Cell phones, texting, mobile offices, laptop mounts, etc., are all good indications of this.

I work in my garage and occasionally at the edge of the garage and driveway. Not too long ago, I had my back to this area and when I turned around, my wife's Rav4EV was THERE! As she is a responsible driver, she stopped well clear of me. There was very little ambient noise to mask the approach of the EV, but the key point is it's not my concern as a pedestrian, it's the driver's responsibility.

BMW motorcycles are almost quieter than our EVs, yet there's no legislation in the works to make them have pizza sounds, is there?

We don't need more noise in this world!
------------------------------


Beginning of Original Message: 10
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 02:46:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: brucedp5 <[hidden email]>
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by
    Domino's    as ads

It?s not 100% clear that this is not a joke

http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679716/dominos-takes-electric-vehicle-sound-effects-to-their-hilarious-conclusion
[video] Domino?s Takes Electric Vehicle Sound Effects To Their
Hilarious Conclusion  by Morgan Clendaniel

Why have engines be silent when you can have them play the most
ridiculous soundtrack ever?

[video 
http://youtube.com/watch?v=n17B_uFF4cA
Domino's Pizza Safe Sound - Menselijk motorgeluid voor elektrische scooter
Apr 16, 2012 by DominosPizzaNL
To improve road safety Domino's Pizza the Netherlands introduces a
human engine sound on their silent electrical scooters.
Om de verkeersveiligheid van de stille elektrische scooters te
verbeteren introduceert Domino's Pizza Nederland een alternatief
motorgeluid.
]

Electric cars are gloriously silent, which means the noise from
traffic is almost entirely eliminated. Instead of the noise of
combustion engines, we get just the sound of sleek machines zipping
around our roads. And also the sound of the screams of pedestrians
who, expecting some auditory clues as to when cars are approaching,
wander into the street and get hit. In response, the government is
working to require electric cars to make some sort of noise.

In the Netherlands, the local Domino?s Pizza has added noises to its
electric delivery scooters which consist of a human being making
engine noises and occasionally yelling "Domino?s!" and "Pizza!" To be
fair, it?s not 100% clear that this is not a joke, but even if it is,
it exposes a horrifying aspect of the future of electric cars that
goes mostly unremarked upon: A world in which we entrust our urban
soundscape to the whims of large corporations bent on advertising.

Imagine if your Volt exclaimed "Buy a Volt!" as it sped past a
dilapidated gas station. What if every delivery story loudly
proclaimed the contents and quality of its goods as it approached
your house? It could be a dystopian future beyond our wildest
nightmares.

Before you dismiss this, keep in mind that carmakers have already
stumbled rather badly at their attempts to come up with appropriate
warning car noises. Over the summer, Ford tried out a variety of
sounds for the electric Ford Focus, including our favorite, "The
Transporter"

[video 
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qOEuCJfsS8k
by Ford on May 31, 2011
Learn more about the 2012 Focus Electric:
http://www.ford.com/electric/focuselectric/2012/ 
Ford wants your feedback on the way its electric vehicles sound.
Which word would you use to describe this version?
*These example sounds are not necessarily correct for the vehicle's
speed as shown in the video. Please focus on the sound character,
rather than on the sound volume or imagined "speed".
]                        [? 2012 Mansueto Ventures]

End of Original Message: 10
__________________________________________________
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120420/ae0df66d/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino's as ads

Jay Robison
I can see a noise generator being useful for blind pedestrians, but that's a pretty specific and relatively small subset of people. And again, you're right, it's the driver's responsibility to be paying attention first and foremost.
 
Noise is a kind of pollution too. Requiring EVs to make noise seems to defeat one of the ways that EVs can make cities more pleasant by making them much less noisy.


________________________________
From: fred <[hidden email]>
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino's as ads

If there's going to be a noise requirement added to production electric vehicles, by all means, let's make it a joke. Having this requirement (noise, not joke) removes yet another level of responsibility from the driver to be in proper control of the motor vehicle. More than 30 years ago, we were taught that the operator is responsible for the safety of pedestrians, cyclists and other road users, without exception. Certainly today's driver has little thought of that concept. Cell phones, texting, mobile offices, laptop mounts, etc., are all good indications of this.

I work in my garage and occasionally at the edge of the garage and driveway. Not too long ago, I had my back to this area and when I turned around, my wife's Rav4EV was THERE! As she is a responsible driver, she stopped well clear of me. There was very little ambient noise to mask the approach of the EV, but the key point is it's not my concern as a pedestrian, it's the driver's responsibility.

BMW motorcycles are almost quieter than our EVs, yet there's no legislation in the works to make them have pizza sounds, is there?

We don't need more noise in this world!
------------------------------


Beginning of Original Message: 10
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 02:46:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: brucedp5 <[hidden email]>
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by
    Domino's    as ads

It?s not 100% clear that this is not a joke

http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679716/dominos-takes-electric-vehicle-sound-effects-to-their-hilarious-conclusion
[video] Domino?s Takes Electric Vehicle Sound Effects To Their
Hilarious Conclusion  by Morgan Clendaniel

Why have engines be silent when you can have them play the most
ridiculous soundtrack ever?

[video 
http://youtube.com/watch?v=n17B_uFF4cA
Domino's Pizza Safe Sound - Menselijk motorgeluid voor elektrische scooter
Apr 16, 2012 by DominosPizzaNL
To improve road safety Domino's Pizza the Netherlands introduces a
human engine sound on their silent electrical scooters.
Om de verkeersveiligheid van de stille elektrische scooters te
verbeteren introduceert Domino's Pizza Nederland een alternatief
motorgeluid.
]

Electric cars are gloriously silent, which means the noise from
traffic is almost entirely eliminated. Instead of the noise of
combustion engines, we get just the sound of sleek machines zipping
around our roads. And also the sound of the screams of pedestrians
who, expecting some auditory clues as to when cars are approaching,
wander into the street and get hit. In response, the government is
working to require electric cars to make some sort of noise.

In the Netherlands, the local Domino?s Pizza has added noises to its
electric delivery scooters which consist of a human being making
engine noises and occasionally yelling "Domino?s!" and "Pizza!" To be
fair, it?s not 100% clear that this is not a joke, but even if it is,
it exposes a horrifying aspect of the future of electric cars that
goes mostly unremarked upon: A world in which we entrust our urban
soundscape to the whims of large corporations bent on advertising.

Imagine if your Volt exclaimed "Buy a Volt!" as it sped past a
dilapidated gas station. What if every delivery story loudly
proclaimed the contents and quality of its goods as it approached
your house? It could be a dystopian future beyond our wildest
nightmares.

Before you dismiss this, keep in mind that carmakers have already
stumbled rather badly at their attempts to come up with appropriate
warning car noises. Over the summer, Ford tried out a variety of
sounds for the electric Ford Focus, including our favorite, "The
Transporter"

[video 
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qOEuCJfsS8k
by Ford on May 31, 2011
Learn more about the 2012 Focus Electric:
http://www.ford.com/electric/focuselectric/2012/ 
Ford wants your feedback on the way its electric vehicles sound.
Which word would you use to describe this version?
*These example sounds are not necessarily correct for the vehicle's
speed as shown in the video. Please focus on the sound character,
rather than on the sound volume or imagined "speed".
]                        [? 2012 Mansueto Ventures]

End of Original Message: 10
__________________________________________________
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120420/ae0df66d/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120420/0e106f3b/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino's as ads

Jeffrey Jenkins
In reply to this post by fred ungewitter
fred ungewitter wrote
...There was very little ambient noise to mask the approach of the EV, but the key point is it's not my concern as a pedestrian, it's the driver's responsibility.
You really think that it's no concern of yours to determine if a car might be approaching when you are in the vicinity of a road?

Seems to me that drivers and pedestrians, both, ought to be aware of their surroundings...
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino's as ads

Thos True
In reply to this post by Jay Robison
I grew up around a couple of blind people, and went to college with a blind
classmate (who climbed Mount Rainier). It should be noted that hearing is
the primary sense that takes over for the loss of sight.
Tire noise is often louder than most new cars on today's market (ICE's
included). A couple of weeks ago, I saw an elderly man backing his Cadillac
out of a parking spot at the grocery store, where he hit a shopping cart
being pushed by an elderly woman. She didn't hear his car, and he didn't
see her in his mirror. So, the question is, who was at fault? The man, the
woman, or General Motors? I suspect that there will be lawsuits filed
eventually that will result in back up alarms being placed in all vehicles
ICE or otherwise.
Of course since most politicians won't admit to their own blindness, they
will not see the obvious blind spot in the road noise theory, or they may
rule that all vehicles must make a sound that is loud enough to be heard by
the hearing impaired, since that is the next obvious public impediment
(baby boomers who work industrial or construction jobs & X Gens who blast
their personal music devices).
If you walk along country roads, you will note that you can hear the tire
noise of almost any vehicle long before you see it coming.
Just my 2 watts worth,

Tom

On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Jay Robison <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I can see a noise generator being useful for blind pedestrians, but that's
> a pretty specific and relatively small subset of people. And again, you're
> right, it's the driver's responsibility to be paying attention first and
> foremost.
>
> Noise is a kind of pollution too. Requiring EVs to make noise seems to
> defeat one of the ways that EVs can make cities more pleasant by making
> them much less noisy.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: fred <[hidden email]>
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 9:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino's
> as ads
>
> If there's going to be a noise requirement added to production electric
> vehicles, by all means, let's make it a joke. Having this requirement
> (noise, not joke) removes yet another level of responsibility from the
> driver to be in proper control of the motor vehicle. More than 30 years
> ago, we were taught that the operator is responsible for the safety of
> pedestrians, cyclists and other road users, without exception. Certainly
> today's driver has little thought of that concept. Cell phones, texting,
> mobile offices, laptop mounts, etc., are all good indications of this.
>
> I work in my garage and occasionally at the edge of the garage and
> driveway. Not too long ago, I had my back to this area and when I turned
> around, my wife's Rav4EV was THERE! As she is a responsible driver, she
> stopped well clear of me. There was very little ambient noise to mask the
> approach of the EV, but the key point is it's not my concern as a
> pedestrian, it's the driver's responsibility.
>
> BMW motorcycles are almost quieter than our EVs, yet there's no
> legislation in the works to make them have pizza sounds, is there?
>
> We don't need more noise in this world!
> ------------------------------
>
>
> Beginning of Original Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 02:46:27 -0700 (PDT)
> From: brucedp5 <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by
>     Domino's    as ads
>
> It?s not 100% clear that this is not a joke
>
>
> http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679716/dominos-takes-electric-vehicle-sound-effects-to-their-hilarious-conclusion
> [video] Domino?s Takes Electric Vehicle Sound Effects To Their
> Hilarious Conclusion  by Morgan Clendaniel
>
> Why have engines be silent when you can have them play the most
> ridiculous soundtrack ever?
>
> [video
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=n17B_uFF4cA
> Domino's Pizza Safe Sound - Menselijk motorgeluid voor elektrische scooter
> Apr 16, 2012 by DominosPizzaNL
> To improve road safety Domino's Pizza the Netherlands introduces a
> human engine sound on their silent electrical scooters.
> Om de verkeersveiligheid van de stille elektrische scooters te
> verbeteren introduceert Domino's Pizza Nederland een alternatief
> motorgeluid.
> ]
>
> Electric cars are gloriously silent, which means the noise from
> traffic is almost entirely eliminated. Instead of the noise of
> combustion engines, we get just the sound of sleek machines zipping
> around our roads. And also the sound of the screams of pedestrians
> who, expecting some auditory clues as to when cars are approaching,
> wander into the street and get hit. In response, the government is
> working to require electric cars to make some sort of noise.
>
> In the Netherlands, the local Domino?s Pizza has added noises to its
> electric delivery scooters which consist of a human being making
> engine noises and occasionally yelling "Domino?s!" and "Pizza!" To be
> fair, it?s not 100% clear that this is not a joke, but even if it is,
> it exposes a horrifying aspect of the future of electric cars that
> goes mostly unremarked upon: A world in which we entrust our urban
> soundscape to the whims of large corporations bent on advertising.
>
> Imagine if your Volt exclaimed "Buy a Volt!" as it sped past a
> dilapidated gas station. What if every delivery story loudly
> proclaimed the contents and quality of its goods as it approached
> your house? It could be a dystopian future beyond our wildest
> nightmares.
>
> Before you dismiss this, keep in mind that carmakers have already
> stumbled rather badly at their attempts to come up with appropriate
> warning car noises. Over the summer, Ford tried out a variety of
> sounds for the electric Ford Focus, including our favorite, "The
> Transporter"
>
> [video
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=qOEuCJfsS8k
> by Ford on May 31, 2011
> Learn more about the 2012 Focus Electric:
> http://www.ford.com/electric/focuselectric/2012/
> Ford wants your feedback on the way its electric vehicles sound.
> Which word would you use to describe this version?
> *These example sounds are not necessarily correct for the vehicle's
> speed as shown in the video. Please focus on the sound character,
> rather than on the sound volume or imagined "speed".
> ]                        [? 2012 Mansueto Ventures]
>
> End of Original Message: 10
> __________________________________________________
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120420/ae0df66d/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120420/0e106f3b/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120420/2ba6c29d/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino's as ads

Dave Hymers
Obviously the shopping cart needs a noisemaker ....
On Apr 20, 2012 10:55 AM, "Thos True" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I grew up around a couple of blind people, and went to college with a blind
> classmate (who climbed Mount Rainier). It should be noted that hearing is
> the primary sense that takes over for the loss of sight.
> Tire noise is often louder than most new cars on today's market (ICE's
> included). A couple of weeks ago, I saw an elderly man backing his Cadillac
> out of a parking spot at the grocery store, where he hit a shopping cart
> being pushed by an elderly woman. She didn't hear his car, and he didn't
> see her in his mirror. So, the question is, who was at fault? The man, the
> woman, or General Motors? I suspect that there will be lawsuits filed
> eventually that will result in back up alarms being placed in all vehicles
> ICE or otherwise.
> Of course since most politicians won't admit to their own blindness, they
> will not see the obvious blind spot in the road noise theory, or they may
> rule that all vehicles must make a sound that is loud enough to be heard by
> the hearing impaired, since that is the next obvious public impediment
> (baby boomers who work industrial or construction jobs & X Gens who blast
> their personal music devices).
> If you walk along country roads, you will note that you can hear the tire
> noise of almost any vehicle long before you see it coming.
> Just my 2 watts worth,
>
> Tom
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Jay Robison <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > I can see a noise generator being useful for blind pedestrians, but
> that's
> > a pretty specific and relatively small subset of people. And again,
> you're
> > right, it's the driver's responsibility to be paying attention first and
> > foremost.
> >
> > Noise is a kind of pollution too. Requiring EVs to make noise seems to
> > defeat one of the ways that EVs can make cities more pleasant by making
> > them much less noisy.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: fred <[hidden email]>
> > To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 9:57 AM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino's
> > as ads
> >
> > If there's going to be a noise requirement added to production electric
> > vehicles, by all means, let's make it a joke. Having this requirement
> > (noise, not joke) removes yet another level of responsibility from the
> > driver to be in proper control of the motor vehicle. More than 30 years
> > ago, we were taught that the operator is responsible for the safety of
> > pedestrians, cyclists and other road users, without exception. Certainly
> > today's driver has little thought of that concept. Cell phones, texting,
> > mobile offices, laptop mounts, etc., are all good indications of this.
> >
> > I work in my garage and occasionally at the edge of the garage and
> > driveway. Not too long ago, I had my back to this area and when I turned
> > around, my wife's Rav4EV was THERE! As she is a responsible driver, she
> > stopped well clear of me. There was very little ambient noise to mask the
> > approach of the EV, but the key point is it's not my concern as a
> > pedestrian, it's the driver's responsibility.
> >
> > BMW motorcycles are almost quieter than our EVs, yet there's no
> > legislation in the works to make them have pizza sounds, is there?
> >
> > We don't need more noise in this world!
> > ------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Beginning of Original Message: 10
> > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 02:46:27 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: brucedp5 <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by
> >     Domino's    as ads
> >
> > It?s not 100% clear that this is not a joke
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679716/dominos-takes-electric-vehicle-sound-effects-to-their-hilarious-conclusion
> > [video] Domino?s Takes Electric Vehicle Sound Effects To Their
> > Hilarious Conclusion  by Morgan Clendaniel
> >
> > Why have engines be silent when you can have them play the most
> > ridiculous soundtrack ever?
> >
> > [video
> > http://youtube.com/watch?v=n17B_uFF4cA
> > Domino's Pizza Safe Sound - Menselijk motorgeluid voor elektrische
> scooter
> > Apr 16, 2012 by DominosPizzaNL
> > To improve road safety Domino's Pizza the Netherlands introduces a
> > human engine sound on their silent electrical scooters.
> > Om de verkeersveiligheid van de stille elektrische scooters te
> > verbeteren introduceert Domino's Pizza Nederland een alternatief
> > motorgeluid.
> > ]
> >
> > Electric cars are gloriously silent, which means the noise from
> > traffic is almost entirely eliminated. Instead of the noise of
> > combustion engines, we get just the sound of sleek machines zipping
> > around our roads. And also the sound of the screams of pedestrians
> > who, expecting some auditory clues as to when cars are approaching,
> > wander into the street and get hit. In response, the government is
> > working to require electric cars to make some sort of noise.
> >
> > In the Netherlands, the local Domino?s Pizza has added noises to its
> > electric delivery scooters which consist of a human being making
> > engine noises and occasionally yelling "Domino?s!" and "Pizza!" To be
> > fair, it?s not 100% clear that this is not a joke, but even if it is,
> > it exposes a horrifying aspect of the future of electric cars that
> > goes mostly unremarked upon: A world in which we entrust our urban
> > soundscape to the whims of large corporations bent on advertising.
> >
> > Imagine if your Volt exclaimed "Buy a Volt!" as it sped past a
> > dilapidated gas station. What if every delivery story loudly
> > proclaimed the contents and quality of its goods as it approached
> > your house? It could be a dystopian future beyond our wildest
> > nightmares.
> >
> > Before you dismiss this, keep in mind that carmakers have already
> > stumbled rather badly at their attempts to come up with appropriate
> > warning car noises. Over the summer, Ford tried out a variety of
> > sounds for the electric Ford Focus, including our favorite, "The
> > Transporter"
> >
> > [video
> > http://youtube.com/watch?v=qOEuCJfsS8k
> > by Ford on May 31, 2011
> > Learn more about the 2012 Focus Electric:
> > http://www.ford.com/electric/focuselectric/2012/
> > Ford wants your feedback on the way its electric vehicles sound.
> > Which word would you use to describe this version?
> > *These example sounds are not necessarily correct for the vehicle's
> > speed as shown in the video. Please focus on the sound character,
> > rather than on the sound volume or imagined "speed".
> > ]                        [? 2012 Mansueto Ventures]
> >
> > End of Original Message: 10
> > __________________________________________________
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> >
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120420/ae0df66d/attachment.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> > | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> > |
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> > | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> >
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120420/0e106f3b/attachment.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> > | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> > |
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> > | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
> merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120420/2ba6c29d/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120421/a669b5c2/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino's asads

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by Jeffrey Jenkins
Jeffrey,
It is really simple and you can find it encoded in
every reasonable traffic law:
If a person is driving a vehicle, he or she must
take care to operate the vehicle safely. That also
means taking all necessary precaution not to cause
an accident, including stopping for pedestrians
stepping into the streets. If I am not mistaken,
the California traffic laws require from a pedestrian
to make sure that within 200 ft no vehicle is coming
before starting to cross the street, which means that
fast cars / slow pedestrians will anyhow require the
car to either slow down or stop.
Another traffic law clearly states that it is illegal
to pass a vehicle that is stopping to let a pedestrian
cross the street. This particular law has caused some
howling tires on cars of impatient/inattentive drivers
when I crossed a street legally mid-block, a car in
the nr 1 lane approached and slowed down and then a
yoyo came rushing from behing him to overtake him in
the curb lane, only to find me in his path....
Another occasion is where the pedestrian crosses the
street in an (unmarked) crosswalk at an intersection.
At that point, the pedestrian has the right of way even
though many vehicle operators have no clue....
Another often overlooked traffic law says that traffic
must stop for a blind person raising their white/red
stick and starting to cross...
So, *in* the road, the laws are pretty clear.
If you - as a pedestrian - are *near* a road, but not
in it, and you are at standstill, then no burden is
on you to watch out and all burden is on vehicle
operators to make sure that they do not knock over a
pedestrian when they enter or leave the street.

Of course it is good precaution to be aware of your
surroundings at all times, but there is no requirement
for a person standing near a street to have any
responsibility for avoiding traffic.

BTW, for the other case of a *backing out* vehicle,
it is *very* clear that a vehicle moving in reverse
that it needs to give right of way to *all* other
traffic and that includes pedestrians, so by definition
if a backing up vehicle hits anything, its driver is
at fault.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Jeffrey Jenkins
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 11:17 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino's
asads


fred ungewitter wrote
>
> ...There was very little ambient noise to mask the approach of the EV,

> but the key point is it's not my concern as a pedestrian, it's the
> driver's responsibility.
>

You really think that it's no concern of yours to determine if a car
might be approaching when you are in the vicinity of a road?

Seems to me that drivers and pedestrians, both, ought to be aware of
their surroundings...


--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Redonkul
ous-EV-sound-requirement-spoofed-by-Domino-s-as-ads-tp4574247p4574815.ht
ml
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino's asads

Jeffrey Jenkins
Cor van de Water wrote
Jeffrey,
It is really simple and you can find it encoded in
every reasonable traffic law:
If a person is driving a vehicle, he or she must
take care to operate the vehicle safely.
In the real world drivers are routinely distracted and only a fool would entrust his life to every single driver on the road obeying the traffic "rules".

Besides, most jurisdictions have laws against "jaywalking", or walking into a motorway outside of the prescribed pedestrian crossing zones.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino'sasads

Cor van de Water
Hi Jeffrey,

I am not sure where you are from - the use of the word
"Motorway" in Great Britain refers to what Americans would
call a Freeway: a controlled access road where only vehicles
that can achieve a minimum speed of 55 MPH are legal.
Obviously, pedestrians are not allowed to cross there.
(Interestingly there is a small fraction of vehicle drivers
that are forced to become pedestrian even on a Freeway, when
their vehicle stops operating....)

The term "jaywalking" is referring to crossing a street in
an illegal or reckless manner - can be crossing against a
red light, walking in a diagonal direction, not giving
right of way to vehicles while crossing outside a crosswalk
or crossing where prohibited,
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking
so by definition jaywalking is illegal.

Anyway, few jurisdictions have ordinances against crossing
a street at other places than intersections, though there are
occasional fatalities, often blamed on the pedestrian not
making it across mid-block and usually it is blamed on the
pedestrian (since he/she can no longer defend themselves)...

I have enough practice to not trust my life in the hands of
the next distracted driver, but I also reject the notion
that because they are distracted anyways, everyone else must
watch out because you can't expect drivers to operate their
vehicles safely. That would be the same as blaming victims
for becoming victims, instead of doing something about
the source of the problem, the perpetrators!

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Jeffrey Jenkins
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 3:43 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by
Domino'sasads


Cor van de Water wrote
>
> Jeffrey,
> It is really simple and you can find it encoded in every reasonable
> traffic law:
> If a person is driving a vehicle, he or she must take care to operate
> the vehicle safely.

In the real world drivers are routinely distracted and only a fool would
entrust his life to every single driver on the road obeying the traffic
"rules".

Besides, most jurisdictions have laws against "jaywalking", or walking
into a motorway outside of the prescribed pedestrian crossing zones.



--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Redonkul
ous-EV-sound-requirement-spoofed-by-Domino-s-as-ads-tp4574247p4578950.ht
ml
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino'sasads

Jeffrey Jenkins
Cor van de Water wrote
Hi Jeffrey,

I am not sure where you are from - the use of the word
"Motorway" in Great Britain...
Motorway, street, boulevard, avenue, rue, whatever. You continue to get hung up on the meaning of words and rules and laws while the gist of my argument is that being in the right, technically speaking, is cold comfort when you are the one sailing through the air after making intimate contact with a car's front bumper.

Cor van de Water wrote
...I also reject the notion
that because they are distracted anyways, everyone else must
watch out because you can't expect drivers to operate their
vehicles safely. That would be the same as blaming victims
for becoming victims, instead of doing something about
the source of the problem, the perpetrators!
I maintain that both driver and pedestrian need to be aware of their surroundings, and that each is responsible for their safety. Sometimes accidents will happen regardless of the vigilance displayed by both sides - that's an unfortunate, yet unavoidable, aspect of life - but if both parties have taken care then it will truly be an accident, and not a "victimization by a perpetrator".

This means I think noisemakers for EVs are stupid, btw. Your position, in contrast, automatically suggests they are necessary - after all, you have repeatedly taken the side of the pedestrian in your posts.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino'sasads

Cor van de Water
I never said that I will step out in front of a
distracted driver and hope that he/she will pay
attention in time to avoid a crash.
Unfortunately the contact with a car bumper can
happen easily even while you never step out in the
street - simply walk around the block, cross some
driveways or similar structures where there can be
no doubt who needs to yield where and still you may
be scooped up by someone who has their priorities
in wrong order. I have had to tap on the hood of
the cars of drivers *only* looking over their left
shoulder for traffic in the street and totally
oblivious to pedestrians on the sidewalk that they
were about to enter...

The point is that most drivers have long forgotten
driver ed, or never had any at all - in California
you can get your license by simply memorizing some
situations and facts from the driver handbook and
after passing some multiple choice test you can sit
behind the wheel for a while with a licensed driver
who is supposed to teach you all situations and
circumstances that you might encounter on the street
and then you make a short behind-the-wheel test drive
and that is it.

I have helped more than one person-with-a-license to
become a safe driver and actually get on a Freeway
without accidents...

My point is that drivers learn from practice, from
situations that they encounter on the street.
If a driver never encounters bicyclists or pedestrians
how can he or she be expected to behave appropriately
in the odd case that they encounter them?
That is exactly why it becomes safer in the streets
when more bicycles and pedestrians join and the
"safe routes to school" is not only finding the best
route for a group of children from their home to school
and back, but also due to the large increase in numbers
of kids walking to school to increase the safety on the
street, because drivers adapt their behavior when they
expect that kids can be in the street.

You all probably know the outcry when a *teacher*
(who in the case that I remember was living about half
a mile away, a distance easily walked or biked in a few
minutes) made a left turn and killed a child that was
crossing in the crosswalk at the corner of the block
from the school, at the time just before classes started.
How can you not expect kids to cross there at such a time?

Anyway - let's get our own priorities in order and go back
to building and driving silent EVs and watching out for the
other traffic users who may not always expect a vehicle to
be this silent.
I still like that better than that I have to drive a car
that is LOUDER than necessary. I have been woken up in the
middle of the night from LOUD pipes too often and I think
that there is sufficient evidence that shows that noise
kills - slowly....

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Jeffrey Jenkins
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 6:06 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by
Domino'sasads


Cor van de Water wrote
>
> Hi Jeffrey,
>
> I am not sure where you are from - the use of the word "Motorway" in
> Great Britain...

Motorway, street, boulevard, avenue, rue, whatever. You continue to get
hung up on the meaning of words and rules and laws while the gist of my
argument is that being in the right, technically speaking, is cold
comfort when you are the one sailing through the air after making
intimate contact with a car's front bumper.


Cor van de Water wrote
> ...I also reject the notion
> that because they are distracted anyways, everyone else must watch out

> because you can't expect drivers to operate their vehicles safely.
> That would be the same as blaming victims for becoming victims,
> instead of doing something about the source of the problem, the
> perpetrators!
>

I maintain that both driver and pedestrian need to be aware of their
surroundings, and that each is responsible for their safety. Sometimes
accidents will happen regardless of the vigilance displayed by both
sides - that's an unfortunate, yet unavoidable, aspect of life - but if
both parties have taken care then it will truly be an accident, and not
a "victimization by a perpetrator".

This means I think noisemakers for EVs are stupid, btw. Your position,
in contrast, automatically suggests they are necessary - after all, you
have repeatedly taken the side of the pedestrian in your posts.



--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Redonkul
ous-EV-sound-requirement-spoofed-by-Domino-s-as-ads-tp4574247p4580274.ht
ml
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino'sasads

EVDL Administrator
In reply to this post by Jeffrey Jenkins
On 23 Apr 2012 at 5:36, Jeffrey Jenkins wrote:

> you have repeatedly taken the side of the pedestrian in your posts.

This is, by and large, the way of the world.  Somehow it seems that when
fragile flesh and blood goes up against chromed steel, people just naturally
side with the former.  

IMO, one of the great advantages of EVs is their potential to reduce urban
noise pollution.  The very idea of putting a racket back into EVs is ...
well, at least as bad as adding a synthetic idle creep to an EV.  Its
another case of deliberately kneecapping the EV.

However, as I've said here before, we're not too likely to win this one.  In
all likelyhood, at least some nations are going to require noisemakers.  I
think we should concentrate on making them as subtle and attractive as
possible.  We might even be able to have a little fun with them.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino's asads

martinwinlow
In reply to this post by Jeffrey Jenkins

On 22 Apr 2012, at 23:12, Jeffrey Jenkins wrote:

>
> Cor van de Water wrote
>>
>> Jeffrey,
>> It is really simple and you can find it encoded in
>> every reasonable traffic law:
>> If a person is driving a vehicle, he or she must
>> take care to operate the vehicle safely.
>
> In the real world drivers are routinely distracted and only a fool would
> entrust his life to every single driver on the road obeying the traffic
> "rules".
>
> Besides, most jurisdictions have laws against "jaywalking", or walking into
> a motorway outside of the prescribed pedestrian crossing zones.
>
>

No Jaywalking laws in the UK - or the rest of Europe AFAIK (unfortunately).

That said, I actually had a chance today to watch passing traffic from the footway and have come to the conclusion that the whole idea that we need EVs fitted with noise making equipment is just plain silly.

Of ALL the vehicles which drove past me in a 15 minute period (about 100 I'd say) the only one whose engine made more noise than the tyres did was a big truck.  They were all doing no more than 20 mph and all were easily detectable without any difficulty by tyre noise alone.  EVs also use tyres - ergo, no need for them to make any more racket!  When EVs can hover along the road, then we can revisit the question.  For now, can we please spend all this effort and money on developing better batteries or sensible charge points?

Speaking of which...

http://www.zerocarbonworld.org/free-charging-stations

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120423/43938828/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino'sasads

EVDL Administrator
In reply to this post by EVDL Administrator
On 23 Apr 2012 at 12:22, EVDL Administrator wrote:

> Its another case of deliberately kneecapping the EV.

Oops, I meant "it's."  Bleah.

>
> However, as I've said here before, we're not too likely to win this one.  In
> all likelyhood, at least some nations are going to require noisemakers.

Ack.  That's "likelihood."  Eh, you knew what I meant. ;-)

I guess the ol' spelling checker isn't working quite right today.  (I mean
the one between my ears.)

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino'sasads

Jay Summet
In reply to this post by Jeffrey Jenkins
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


>
> This means I think noisemakers for EVs are stupid, btw. Your position, in
> contrast, automatically suggests they are necessary - after all, you have
> repeatedly taken the side of the pedestrian in your posts.
>

My Curtus controller switches to 1.5 Khz (in the audible range) when the
PwM frequency is under 15% (for technical reasons having to do with
being more efficient).  This causes my truck to "whine" while traveling
at slow speeds, such as backing up in a parking lot, or crawling along
forward in a parking lot.

I feel that this is a good feature.  I didn't used to think that my
truck (which has big tread nosy tires on it) was super quiet, but one
day I was rolling down a hill (not under power, so no motor whine)
towards a pedestrian walking in the middle of the road reading his mail.

I had to steer off to the far side of my lane to pass him safely (I
remember thinking "Why is this bozo walking down the exact middle of the
road, doesn't he hear me coming?" and it wasn't until I saw him start
and jump in the air as I drove past him that I realized he really hadn't
heard my truck rolling down the hill.

Obviously, he wasn't paying attention and had his head in his
mail.....but still, if my truck had been making it's "low speed" whine
he probably would have noticed and stepped onto his side of the road (or
even better, onto the sidewalk...), making me less responsible for his
safety.


Jay

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk+VmWUACgkQSWJjSgPNbM/SPgCfcopLG9QfbEDbD8ZyZb5QA10O
NcMAn1tzJQVSSkCyTvBk+DMmefM0LUOl
=VELn
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino's asads

Rick Beebe
In reply to this post by martinwinlow
On 04/23/2012 12:29 PM, Martin WINLOW wrote:

> Of ALL the vehicles which drove past me in a 15 minute period (about
> 100 I'd say) the only one whose engine made more noise than the tyres
> did was a big truck.  They were all doing no more than 20 mph and all
> were easily detectable without any difficulty by tyre noise alone.

It's the under 20mph that they're actually worried about. The last
proposal I saw would fade the noise out over 20. Just last week I was
putting groceries in my trunk. I shut the trunk, turned around and
smacked my knee right into an Escape hybrid that had pulled in behind
me. More than hurting my knee, I almost jumped out of my skin. I never
heard it coming. Ironic because I drive an Escape hybrid too.

I'm not advocating for noisemakers either, but I think there's a real
possibility of people stepping out in front of silent vehicles in
parking lots and other low-speed areas. Much more so than on higher
speed roads.

--Rick

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino'sasads

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by Jeffrey Jenkins
Jeffrey Jenkins wrote:
> This means I think noisemakers for EVs are stupid, btw.
> Your position, in contrast, automatically suggests they
> are necessary - after all, you have repeatedly taken the
> side of the pedestrian in your posts.

Hi Jeffrey,
You are mistaken - I agree with you that noisemakers are
unnecessary and even detrimental, because it may allow
vehicle drivers the erroneous thought process that,
because they are making noise purposefully, others can now
take care to avoid their vehicle, so they can pay even
less attention - shifting more blame to the victim.

I am not saying this idly, because the environment where
I spend a lot of my time is behaving EXACTLY like this.

In India, all driver ed will teach that before turning the
wheel, before entering the street, before passing someone
and in fact before making any move, they should honk.
The result is that just about every driver in India will
move into the street without even looking or change lanes
right into your front fender or even cross an intersection
against red - but only AFTER honking long and loud....
They all expect that you will hear their noise and adapt
your speed and position to accommodate them.
Does this sound familiar?
Please, let's not go there in the west, I have learned to
deal with it while driving and riding my bicycle in India,
I am not sure that I can stand it when those malpractices
will spread to other countries.

BTW, note that the traffic laws in India are not much
different than those in the west - it is the lack of
good driver ed combined with the almost complete lack
of enforcement that allows this problem to become so
widespread and complete opposite to what most laws say.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino'sasads

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by EVDL Administrator
For me, taking the side of the pedestrian / bicyclist
is because by and large the vehicle driver does not need
any defense - he/she is mostly being let off the hook
even for manslaughter, as long as they can say
"honestly, officer - I did not see him, he just stepped
in front of my car suddenly".
I even heard that when someone made a left turn into me
(I was going straight, the lady came from the opposite
direction and turned into the side street to my right)
and I was moving at a low speed and in a straight line
and got hit by the vehicle in the middle of the hood,
yet still the driver exclaimed that she had looked and
I came out of nowhere.... Yeah, right.

Another reason to take the view of the non-motorist
is because I do about equal amounts of miles by car as
by bicycle, which means that I spend longer on a bike
than in a car (most days).

Yet another reason is that when I need to go somewhere,
my first thought is not "which car should I take" or
"which highway brings me there", but "which type of
transportation is appropriate?".
If the distance is short enough, I will walk there.
Else, I first consider bicycling there and only if
there is a reason not to choose for these two "natural"
transportation options will I consider using motorized
transport.
I am saying "natural" because walking and biking feels
to me like a natural means of transport - powered by
your own body, in direct contact with all your
surroundings and in general a low-stress activity.
In contrast to driving, which gives me a locked-up
feeling, disconnected from my surroundings and high
stress caused by busy traffic and risky manouvres
by incompetent drivers, playing with life and death.

But it may be just me having these preferences...

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of EVDL Administrator
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:53 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by
Domino'sasads

On 23 Apr 2012 at 5:36, Jeffrey Jenkins wrote:

> you have repeatedly taken the side of the pedestrian in your posts.

This is, by and large, the way of the world.  Somehow it seems that when
fragile flesh and blood goes up against chromed steel, people just
naturally side with the former.  

IMO, one of the great advantages of EVs is their potential to reduce
urban noise pollution.  The very idea of putting a racket back into EVs
is ...
well, at least as bad as adding a synthetic idle creep to an EV.  Its
another case of deliberately kneecapping the EV.

However, as I've said here before, we're not too likely to win this one.
In all likelyhood, at least some nations are going to require
noisemakers.  I think we should concentrate on making them as subtle and
attractive as possible.  We might even be able to have a little fun with
them.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL
Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
= = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the
webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino'sasads

Jeffrey Jenkins
Cor van de Water wrote
...
I even heard that when someone made a left turn into me...
Okay - you got nailed by a car. That's a good enough reason, and I can respect that. I understand that even if you are hypervigilant you can't necessarily prevent someone from plowing into you.

But I feel compelled to reiterate yet again that I wasn't taking the side of either the car driver or the pedestrian. I still don't think it is unreasonable that both should be aware of their surroundings.

I took a trip to London when I was 25 and one of the, uh, lowlights of that trip was witnessing a pedestrian in the "zebra" just a couple feet in front of me get her leg amputated - literally - by a bus. I recall from my Frommers guide, or somesuch, that all traffic must instantly stop for pedestrians in the zebra. This pedestrian - whom I believe was a native, though it was hard to tell the accent of her screams - certainly acted like the zebra would provide her with total protection. Unfortunately, the bus driver didn't get that memo.

Let me tell you - seeing an impromptu street amputation really spoils your day.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by Domino'sasads

Cor van de Water
Hi Jeffrey,

>From your description I think we have similar experience
and actually we agree - we were just looking at it from
different angles.
 
Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Jeffrey Jenkins
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:36 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Redonkulous EV sound requirement spoofed by
Domino'sasads


Cor van de Water wrote
> ...
> I even heard that when someone made a left turn into me...
>

Okay - you got nailed by a car. That's a good enough reason, and I can
respect that. I understand that even if you are hypervigilant you can't
necessarily prevent someone from plowing into you.

But I feel compelled to reiterate yet again that I wasn't taking the
side of either the car driver or the pedestrian. I still don't think it
is unreasonable that both should be aware of their surroundings.

I took a trip to London when I was 25 and one of the, uh, lowlights of
that trip was witnessing a pedestrian in the "zebra" just a couple feet
in front of me get her leg amputated - literally - by a bus. I recall
from my Frommers guide, or somesuch, that all traffic must instantly
stop for pedestrians in the zebra. This pedestrian - whom I believe was
a native, though it was hard to tell the accent of her screams -
certainly acted like the zebra would provide her with total protection.
Unfortunately, the bus driver didn't get that memo.

Let me tell you - seeing an impromptu street amputation really spoils
your day.



--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Redonkul
ous-EV-sound-requirement-spoofed-by-Domino-s-as-ads-tp4574247p4581856.ht
ml
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev