Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

jerryd

           Hi Christopher and All,

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Christopher Robison <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Re; Volt Frustrated????
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:35:02 -0600

>On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 19:13 -0500, David Hrivnak wrote:
>> I cannot believe all the negative feedback about the
>> Volt.  I can understand people be wary, especially after
>> the EV1 but I think the concept is VERY sound.  40 miles
>> seems to be farther than most EV's go in practice and I
>wish I had $1 for every story I heard about running out of
>> juice at an inopportune moment.  With the onboard
>> generator one could drive 600 miles without stopping,
>> let's see any EV do that.

          First off the Sunrise could do 600 miles if maxed
out with Li-ions.
          Second is the Sunrise with a 15kw generator and
80mile range of say Orbital would clean a Volt's clock in
every catagory from eff, mpg, m/kwhr, acceleration, ect by
probably 50%. This with a design 15+ yrs old!!
          To bring a Volt done right first they need to
reduce weight as the Volt is set to be 4000lbs!! The Sunrise
with 100 mile of lead batteries is only about 2300lbs!! As a
barely needed hybrid with a 80 mile range pack would be
about 50% more eff than the Volt!!
          Of course Detroit doesn't think composite cars can
work in mass production but that's not true as smaller runs
can be economical, flexible. Steel stamping molds, presses,
welding robots, paint booths, ect are extremely expensive
taking about $1bil to start a line up. On Detroit's scale
one could start a new car line for under $100mil with
composites!
          Composites allow them to cut the cars, EV's weight
in 1/2, thus their cost, especially with EV's, Series
Hybrids.
          It's not like GM doesn't know this as they built a
great 4 seat one before called the Ultralite with an
inter-changable ICE/EV drive. Of course they did it in
carbon fiber so they could say it cost too much just like
they did the EV-1 but done in fiberglass/Kevlar could be
done very cost effectively. With Li-ions now it could have
both a small ICE/gen and EV drive and it too would beat the
pants off the Volt in every way.
          So if you want something good, support the
Sunrise!!
           BTW US taxpayers paid for the EV-1 production,
design, ect thru grants, almost 1bill!! Think what we could
do with that kind of corporate welfare!!

  Yes if you do that it would
>take 12 gal of gas but that is far better than the average
>> car.  
>> I wish GM the best and I hope to be able to buy one if
>> they do deliver it. Sure it is not pure EV but it is a
>> GREAT step in the right direction and I believe a perfect
>interim solution.
       
         I'd bet the Sunrise would get over 100mpg on long
trips, much better than the Volt at about 1250 miles/12gal
tank!! Better looking too.

>
>If it is a hoodwink, GM is taking it a lot farther now,
>given the recent showing of their design for the european
>market, the Opel E-Flex Concept:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/yvop9b
>
>So whether they do or not, at least they really want to
>look like they mean to build this E-Flex drive system and
>put it in real cars. We'll see what happens, but past
>experience notwithstanding I think I'm pretty optimistic,
>actually.

         They might have realized and switching tacks but
too much of their lines say otherwise. If they really wanted
to save fuel, they could just reduce their cars weight by
40%!! For instance where are the 2000lb pickups?? It's not
like GM, Ford, ect don't know about them as they build them
in other countries but not here, only 3800lb 'compact'
cars!!

                                 Jerry Dycus

>
>
>--
>Christopher Robison
>[hidden email]
>http://ohmbre.org          <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K +
>Warp13!
>
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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

mos6507-2
I agree that carmakers should look into composites.  Just look at what boeing has accomplished with the 787.  They could probably increase the mileage on their SUVs a great deal just by reducing their weight.

But it's too late for GM to get that ambitious with the Volt.

----- Original Message ----
          Of course Detroit doesn't think composite cars can
work in mass production but that's not true as smaller runs
can be economical, flexible. Steel stamping molds, presses,
welding robots, paint booths, ect are extremely expensive
taking about $1bil to start a line up. On Detroit's scale
one could start a new car line for under $100mil with
composites!


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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

gottdi
In reply to this post by jerryd
True but:   Azure has abandoned the Sunrise project.

Too bad too. It was a real nice looking vehicle. Can someone get  
those forms and begin making that body style again. Might not pass  
crash tests due to being fiberglass.

Oooops.
On Nov 29, 2007, at 12:02 PM, jerryd wrote:

> Better looking too

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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

Ben-149
http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=3014 (Best reference I could
find - do they have an official site?)

Lee Hart, of this list, is doing just that.

On Nov 29, 2007 7:11 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

> True but:   Azure has abandoned the Sunrise project.
>
> Too bad too. It was a real nice looking vehicle. Can someone get
> those forms and begin making that body style again. Might not pass
> crash tests due to being fiberglass.
>
> Oooops.
> On Nov 29, 2007, at 12:02 PM, jerryd wrote:
>
> > Better looking too
>
>
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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

Bruce W
In reply to this post by gottdi
Must not read every email- Sunrise molds were bought and project in
progress. Idea is to make kits

On Nov 29, 2007 5:11 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> True but:   Azure has abandoned the Sunrise project.
>
> Too bad too. It was a real nice looking vehicle. Can someone get
> those forms and begin making that body style again. Might not pass
> crash tests due to being fiberglass.
>
> Oooops.
> On Nov 29, 2007, at 12:02 PM, jerryd wrote:
>
> > Better looking too
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

gottdi
Well I sure don't get them all but I did find that the original  
makers dove out long ago. If they make kits then they will need to  
make the kit for some specific auto platform otherwise it will need  
to go through all the crash testing and such. Kits would be fine as I  
have thought of this as well. Even to the point of designing a new  
body to fit an already existing platform. But since I am not a  
designer I only thought about it like many others have done. I did  
check that link you provided but that still does not give any solid  
info on future vehicles with this design. It will be pretty cool if  
it shows up. There are already many glass bodies that would do. Like  
the Porsche Spyder. Granted it is not a 4 seater family car but it is  
cool: http://www.ohler.com/ev/spyder/


:  )



On Nov 29, 2007, at 5:19 PM, Bruce Weisenberger wrote:

> Must not read every email- Sunrise molds were bought and project in
> progress. Idea is to make kits
>
> On Nov 29, 2007 5:11 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> True but:   Azure has abandoned the Sunrise project.
>>
>> Too bad too. It was a real nice looking vehicle. Can someone get
>> those forms and begin making that body style again. Might not pass
>> crash tests due to being fiberglass.
>>
>> Oooops.
>> On Nov 29, 2007, at 12:02 PM, jerryd wrote:
>>
>>> Better looking too
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

Doug Weathers
In reply to this post by gottdi


[hidden email] wrote:
> True but:   Azure has abandoned the Sunrise project.
>
> Too bad too. It was a real nice looking vehicle. Can someone get  
> those forms and begin making that body style again.
It's being done.  Lee Hart and others are making the Sunrise into a kit
car.  Pictures at <http://www.sunrise-ev.com/pics>
> Might not pass  
> crash tests due to being fiberglass.
>  
Actually, the Sunrise did pass federal crash tests.
> Oooops.
>  
Ooops, someone didn't check Wikipedia :)  
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solectria_Sunrise>

> On Nov 29, 2007, at 12:02 PM, jerryd wrote:
>
>  
>> Better looking too
>>    
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

gottdi
Yea! Yea!. I did find that just after I posted.

Nice looking. However the new version will still need to undergo the  
same testing. Not an easy thing today. Easier back then.



On Nov 29, 2007, at 7:07 PM, Doug Weathers wrote:

> Ooops, someone didn't check Wikipedia

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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

Ryan Stotts
In reply to this post by mos6507-2
Glenn wrote:

> I agree that car makers should look into composites.

I think they did:

http://www.scaled.com/projects/gmcar.html

How to build that on an automated assembly line?  I think Corvette
bodies are still somewhat hand built(chopper gun?)?

Automation options?

http://www.factoryfive.com/company/tour/manuf/images/12.jpg

It's hard to beat the ease and speed of assembly of stamped, spot welded steel.

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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

jerryd
In reply to this post by jerryd

          Hi Ryan and All,
,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????


Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:58:11 -0600

>Glenn wrote:
>
>> I agree that car makers should look into composites.
>
>I think they did:
>
>http://www.scaled.com/projects/gmcar.html

 This is the Ultralite I talked about. GM didn't build it,
just designed it.


>How to build that on an automated assembly line?  I think
>Corvette bodies are still somewhat hand built(chopper
>gun?)?

         There are many ways to speed up composite body
construction. One could build a line doing 100-300/day if
needed. I use to produce boats for a living.

         Scaled Composites quote,

This system enabled the GM engineers to easily change
powerplants without modifying the composite structure. Two
complete all-graphite vehicle structures were designed,
fabricated, and ready for delivery within 12 weeks after
program start. The vehicle structural weight including two
doors, front and rear bumpers and interior components was
420 lb, which was within 1% of the original structural
weight estimate. Engineering structural stiffness tests
conducted by GM showed the structure to be considerably
stiffer than anything previously tested.

          I'd like to see someone build a good finished
metal car in 12weeks from scratch!! There is a reason Burt
Rutan uses composites mostly!!

>
>Automation options?

         So many not enough time to say.

>
>http://www.factoryfive.com/company/tour/manuf/images/12.jpg
>
>It's hard to beat the ease and speed of assembly of stamped
>, spot welded steel.

         There is a big difference between building 1-5week
kitcars vs serious production numbers. But Factory5's
production cost under $1million I'd bet vs $1 bill a stamped
steel plant.  You build 100-30,000/yr composites look very
good. Also my, the Sunrise's chassis is a 1 piece composite
so labor is much reduced. Putting a FG body on a steel
chassis is not how to do composites right. Making a 1 piece
unibody is many times stronger, lighter.
         Most composite now cost about $4-6/lb to finished
parts so at under 400lbs for the unibody, doors, hood,
trunk, ect, cost including everything is lower than steel.



Lee Hart and others are making the Sunrise into a kit
car.  Pictures at <http://www.sunrise-ev.com/pics>
> Might not pass  
> crash tests due to being fiberglass.
>  
Actually, the Sunrise did pass federal crash tests.
> Oooops.

          The Sunrise has been re engineered for lower
costs, ease of building, better weight carrying, handling
and capable handling 500+ hp. We are designing  better crash
protection than before.

>  
Ooops, someone didn't check Wikipedia :)  
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solectria_Sunrise>


Well I sure don't get them all but I did find that the
original  
makers dove out long ago. If they make kits then they will
need to  
make the kit for some specific auto platform otherwise it
will need  
to go through all the crash testing and such.

         Not required for cars, much less kits!!

Kits would be fine as I  
have thought of this as well. Even to the point of designing
a new  
body to fit an already existing platform. But since I am not
a  
designer I only thought about it like many others have done.
I did  
check that link you provided but that still does not give
any solid  
info on future vehicles with this design. It will be pretty
cool if  
it shows up.
There are already many glass bodies that would do. Like  
the Porsche Spyder. Granted it is not a 4 seater family car
but it is  
cool: http://www.ohler.com/ev/spyder/

          Kitcars normally are light but one needs aero too
if EV to be driven at speed so a Spider knock off
convertible won't do well unless you build an aero hardtop.
          Here's the kitcar body I'd use, reinforcing it and
putting in on a composite chassis.
          http://www.usbody.com/Pages_Cars/63-Corvette.htm
 
         This would make a great aero EV that finished out
Wayland style could be a very good seller for very high
prices!!
         The facts are with a good lightweight chassis/body
built for EV's lead batteries can give great performance or
over for ar 130 mile range or both with a 10kw generator
very reasonable cost!! .

                              Jerry Dycus        

 
>
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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

daelectric
In reply to this post by Ryan Stotts
I recently saw an episode of some since show where someone had come up with
a automated method of laying fiberglas or carbon then pressing it into the
correct shape.

It they wanted to do it they would figure out how to automate it.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:58 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

Glenn wrote:

> I agree that car makers should look into composites.

I think they did:

http://www.scaled.com/projects/gmcar.html

How to build that on an automated assembly line?  I think Corvette
bodies are still somewhat hand built(chopper gun?)?

Automation options?

http://www.factoryfive.com/company/tour/manuf/images/12.jpg

It's hard to beat the ease and speed of assembly of stamped, spot welded
steel.

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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Ryan Stotts
Glenn wrote:
>> I agree that car makers should look into composites.

They already use quite a few composite parts. However, most are molded
composites, like fiberglass reinforced plastics, which can be mass
produced in high pressure molds.

Ryan Stotts wrote:
> I think they did:
> http://www.scaled.com/projects/gmcar.html

Yes, that's a great example by one of the masters of composites (Burt
Rutan  ofScaled Composites).

> How to build that on an automated assembly line?

The GM Ultralite, Solectria Sunrise, and Hypercar Institute's Revolution
are all examples of composite cars that were designed to be easier to
mass produce. Basically, they use expensive molds, saturate the cloth
with special thermoset resins, and then "stamp out" the part as if it
were sheet metal in a heated mold. They can produce many parts per hour
this way. The body is made as a number of separate parts, which are then
glued together with high-strength adhesives.

In theory, you can mass produce such parts relatively quickly and
cheaply. It's being done in practice for much smaller parts; but I don't
know of anyone making anything as big as a car body with this process.

There's a method I found that looks interesting for medium-sized runs of
composite parts. You cut the dry cloth so it drapes nicely over the
mold. Put the cloth in a plastic bag. Use a vacuum pump to suck excess
air out of the bag. Drape the bag+cloth over the mold. Use a vacuum pump
to pull it tight against the mold (exactly as you would do to vacuum
form a plastic part). Now introduce resin into one corner of the bag,
and let the vacuum pull it through the cloth. The plastic bag is clear,
so you can see the wetting of the cloth, and use a roller or fingers to
squeeze it into any places that get missed. Let the resin cure. Lift the
part off the mold, and peel off the plastic bag.

This produces a part with *far* less mess. Because of the plastic bag,
the mold doesn't need mold release beforehand, or cleaning afterward.
The part can't stick to it, and you don't get resin all over all your
tools and hands. The main drawback is that the surface texture of the
bag (including any wrinkles) gets copied into the composite part, which
may require extra finishing work.

> I think Corvette bodies are still somewhat hand built (chopper gun)?

I believe so; basically they still use the same process as mass produced
fiberglass boats, bathtubs, and similar consumer items. Rather weak and
heavy, but cheap and nice looking.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

kEVs
In reply to this post by jerryd
This is how the sunrise was built in fact the molds are still available if someone wants to donate
$250,000.00 we all could have a lightweight composite body-frame system

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 30, 2007, at 7:28 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

I recently saw an episode of some since show where someone had come up with
a automated method of laying fiberglas or carbon then pressing it into the
correct shape.

It they wanted to do it they would figure out how to automate it.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:58 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

Glenn wrote:

I agree that car makers should look into composites.

I think they did:

http://www.scaled.com/projects/gmcar.html

How to build that on an automated assembly line?  I think Corvette
bodies are still somewhat hand built(chopper gun?)?

Automation options?

http://www.factoryfive.com/company/tour/manuf/images/12.jpg

It's hard to beat the ease and speed of assembly of stamped, spot welded
steel.

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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

gottdi
Well boys here is an opportunity to have a Sunrise EV and start a Co-
oP at the same time. Just get 250 members to sign up for 1000 each  
and all will be able to help build and sell a new Sunrise. Each would  
then be part owner and if it got off the ground all would stand a  
chance to make some serious money.

I'd join for only 1K. I'd invest more for the supplies for each car  
but in the end it could be worth the small risk on a venture like  
this. The technology is here. We just need a nice body to use. The  
Sunrise works for me.

Pete


On Nov 30, 2007, at 9:03 AM, Keith wrote:

> if someone wants to donate
> $250,000.00 we all could have a lightweight composite body-frame  
> system

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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by gottdi
[hidden email] wrote:
> Well I sure don't get them all but I did find that the original  
> makers dove out long ago. If they make kits then they will need to  
> make the kit for some specific auto platform otherwise it will need  
> to go through all the crash testing and such. Kits would be fine as I  
> have thought of this as well.

As others have mentioned, the Sunrise is indeed being reborn as a kit
car. We're calling it the Sunrise EV2 to distinguish it from the
original. We bought the last surviving body, chassis, and documentation
from James Worden, founder and CEO of Solectria.

While the original Sunrise was a wonderful car technologically, it was
in some respects unfinished. It had non-opening plastic windows, spartan
interior with minimal creature comforts, used overloaded Geo Metro
suspension for poor handling, etc. It was also designed for mass
production, which made it difficult and expensive to produce in small
numbers.

We're redesigning the Sunrise EV2 to correct these problems. It uses the
1989-1997 Fort Thunderbird or Mercury Cougar as the donor car; this
considerably strengthens the suspension and improves handling and
braking. We've increased space for the motor, batteries, and drive
train, to allow higher power motors and controllers for better
acceleration. The design is also generic, to allow builders to use any
motor, controller and batteries.

The basic body and chassis designs are the same as Solectria's to take
advantage of their crash testing experience. But we have simplified the
molds for the body and chassis, so they can be built by hand in small
numbers. These techniques were pioneered by Burt Rutan at Scaled
Composites so people could build his high performance aircraft kits in
their garages.

Solectria showed what was possible in an electric car with state of the
art technology when cost is no object (AC motor, inverter, nimh
batteries, 200 mile range, etc.). So, our first EV2 prototype is using
older DC motor, controllers, and lead-acid batteries to see what can be
done with affordable technology. I conservatively expect to be able to
achieve a range of over 100 miles.

It's an expensive undertaking and there's still much to be done. But
frankly, I predict you'll be able to buy a Sunrise EV2 long before you
can a GM Volt!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

Morgan LaMoore
In reply to this post by gottdi
$250k is ridiculous! (Unless we're also buying a license to the
intellectual property.)

The solar car team makes molds for composite assembly, and the process
costs less than $50,000! A big chunk of that is paying a machine shop
with the right machinery to mill the molds. (Two molds, one for the
top half and one for the bottom half.) However, the solar cars are
very aerodynamic and streamlined, with no tricky protrusions like
mirrors. I'm guessing that the Sunrise would have to include mirrors
as a separate component.

Also, what is the status on the intellectual property of the Sunrise?
If the owners of the company (or whoever bought them) tells us to not
use their IP, what can we do?

-Morgan LaMoore

On Nov 30, 2007 11:37 AM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Well boys here is an opportunity to have a Sunrise EV and start a Co-
> oP at the same time. Just get 250 members to sign up for 1000 each
> and all will be able to help build and sell a new Sunrise. Each would
> then be part owner and if it got off the ground all would stand a
> chance to make some serious money.
>
> I'd join for only 1K. I'd invest more for the supplies for each car
> but in the end it could be worth the small risk on a venture like
> this. The technology is here. We just need a nice body to use. The
> Sunrise works for me.
>
> Pete
>
>
> On Nov 30, 2007, at 9:03 AM, Keith wrote:
>
> > if someone wants to donate
> > $250,000.00 we all could have a lightweight composite body-frame
> > system
>
>
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>

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Re: Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt Frustrated????

Dan Frederiksen-2
let's wait for a more detailed plan before being concerned with cost. to
me it's a non issue.

Dan

Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> $250k is ridiculous! (Unless we're also buying a license to the
> intellectual property.)
>  

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Nanosolar panels and ev's

Alizav
In reply to this post by gottdi
What does it take to link solar panels to an ev system for charging during
the day either when parked or on the move?  It would seem to me that these
new nanosolar panels would make a difference in terms of how far one can
drive during the day.  If they can print them on the top of a big truck (or
anything else I might add) why not on the top of your car?

Just curious as there is a huge push to get these panels up on the top of
houses.  Really fabu idea.  But I remember them talking about roof top
shingles in the 80's in california.  Guess PG&E didnt really want to eh?

Aliza

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Re: Nanosolar panels and ev's

Christopher Robison
On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 11:49 -0800, Aliza wrote:
> What does it take to link solar panels to an ev system for charging during
> the day either when parked or on the move?  It would seem to me that these
> new nanosolar panels would make a difference in terms of how far one can
> drive during the day.  If they can print them on the top of a big truck (or
> anything else I might add) why not on the top of your car?

My understanding is that entirely covering the available top surface of
your car with currently available solar panels, after a cloudless day in
full sunlight, will give you about 4-5 miles of driving range. Even with
much better efficiency than is available on the market today, there
simply isn't enough energy available in that area of sunlight to make a
big difference -- certainly not worth the expense.

Solar would be good for maintaining your 12V system though, and might be
a good replacement for a DC/DC converter, if you only drive during the
day.


> Just curious as there is a huge push to get these panels up on the top of
> houses.  Really fabu idea.  But I remember them talking about roof top
> shingles in the 80's in california.  Guess PG&E didnt really want to eh?

Solar shingles and standing seam roof panels are made by Unisolar. There
are several distributors.

http://www.oksolar.com/roof


--
Christopher Robison
[hidden email]
http://ohmbre.org          <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!

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Re: Nanosolar panels and ev's

George Swartz
In reply to this post by Alizav
I calculated one time that solar panels on a car (pickup tonneau, or van
top) would add about one mile of range per hour of good sunshine, so that in
a day's time at work on a nice day, you could add 5 or 6 miles of range.

The possible better way to do it is to have a solar array on your house
adding kwh to the grid at peak demand time and being paid for it, then
recharging your car at night at off peak lower rates.  Kills a flock of
birds with one stone.

The big incentive to my driving an EV is the solar energy connection.  The
cost of the system is high, but it amortizes quickly when compared with the
cost of gasoline and for those that are concerned with carbon, it
contributes none.






On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:49:00 -0800, Aliza wrote

> What does it take to link solar panels to an ev system for charging
> during the day either when parked or on the move?  It would seem to
> me that these new nanosolar panels would make a difference in terms
> of how far one can drive during the day.  If they can print them on
> the top of a big truck (or anything else I might add) why not on the
> top of your car?
>
> Just curious as there is a huge push to get these panels up on the
> top of houses.  Really fabu idea.  But I remember them talking about
> roof top shingles in the 80's in california.  Guess PG&E didnt
> really want to eh?
>
> Aliza
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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