Re: Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid buses

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Re: Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid buses

Brandon Kruger-2
One of the comments at the end of this article stated:
"We made several Blue Bird buses all electric in 1994. They went 175 miles
on a charge and had much better performance than the gas or diesel units
(read, do not floor it to get get going unless you want to launch everyone
and everything not nailed down)and a fraction of the overall opperation cost
of the ICE brethren.
Oh, and the overall fleet average is only 25.7 miles a day.
Doug "

175 miles range!?!?!?!!   In a school bus???  Is this possible with PbA
considering school buses aren't very aerodynamic?  I'd be very interested in
seeing some numbers about the battery pack and Wh/mile.  Anyone converted a
school bus?

--
Brandon Kruger
http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
http://cafepress.com/altfuel <-------- EV, PHEV, & Alt. Fuel Merchandise

On 8/7/07, David S <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/07/22/tampa-schools-debut-new-plug-in-hybr
> id-buses/
>
>
>
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Re: Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid buses

Bob Rice-2

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Kruger" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid buses


> One of the comments at the end of this article stated:
> "We made several Blue Bird buses all electric in 1994. They went 175 miles
> on a charge and had much better performance than the gas or diesel units
> (read, do not floor it to get get going unless you want to launch everyone
> and everything not nailed down)and a fraction of the overall opperation
> cost
> of the ICE brethren.
> Oh, and the overall fleet average is only 25.7 miles a day.
> Doug "
>
> 175 miles range!?!?!?!!   In a school bus???  Is this possible with PbA
> considering school buses aren't very aerodynamic?  I'd be very interested
> in
> seeing some numbers about the battery pack and Wh/mile.  Anyone converted
> a
> school bus?
> NO, but I'D be tempted, as a camper. With a solid 175 mile range, what's
> not to love? you sure could pile aboard a lotta batteries! Go with those
> monster fork lift type battery packs?And don't go fast!

    Bob --

> Brandon Kruger
> http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
> http://cafepress.com/altfuel <-------- EV, PHEV, & Alt. Fuel Merchandise
>
> On 8/7/07, David S <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
> http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/07/22/tampa-schools-debut-new-plug-in-hybr
>> id-buses/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
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> 2:29 PM
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>

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Re: Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid buses

Jim Davis-9
In reply to this post by Brandon Kruger-2
--- Brandon Kruger <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 175 miles range!?!?!?!!   In a school bus???  Is this possible with PbA
> considering school buses aren't very aerodynamic?

It's possible, but not feasible. Aerodynamics would be irrelevant. An
all-electric schoolbus becomes feasible when you imagine the driving
pattern (lots of slow starts and stops, seldom driven faster than 35 mph),
coupled with an efficient AC system which relied heavily on regen, and a
huge lead-to-GWVR ratio (50% or better). Ultracaps would help.

The quoted range-claim of 175 miles is obviously hogwash. One wonders how
those 1994 miracle machines did not revolutionize the school bus industry
(or indeed, all subsequent efforts at similar transport), if they
performed as claimed.

> I'd be very interested in seeing some numbers about the battery pack
> Anyone converted a school bus?

No, but I own an electric bus, designed and built from the ground up as an
electric. The AVS 22-foot electric shuttle carried 5400 lbs of lead (about
a third of its curb weight, a quarter of its GWVR), and it had a proven
range of about 50 miles, top speed nearing 40 mph. I own a
later-generation hybridized version (circa 2002, reduced to 3500 lbs in
batteries, adding a Capstone microturbine-- and a fuel tank replacing a
third of the batteries), which was a redesign for more range. When this
series-hybrid was not breaking down, it was purported to approach a range
of 250 miles (relying on the microturbine for generation of charge while
still on route).

Some of these buses are still in service, in downtown Chattanooga, TN, but
every other transit authority abandoned the AVS a long time ago, and the
company went out of business. IMHO, AVS proved that you cannot just tack
an APU onto an all-electric design and get reliable range-extension.
Something to consider, for all those who dream of a range-extending
generator-trailer.

That being said, I think all-electric school buses in an urban environment
is a very good idea, especially if the 25-mile route is typical.
Certainly, that range is achievable. Myself, I live across from a school
busyard, where more than 200 diesel buses start their engines at 5 AM, and
I am certain my life is being shortened by the emissions...

Regards,
Jim

> One of the comments at the end of this article stated:
> "We made several Blue Bird buses all electric in 1994. They went 175
> miles
> on a charge and had much better performance than the gas or diesel units
> (read, do not floor it to get get going unless you want to launch
> everyone
> and everything not nailed down)and a fraction of the overall opperation
> cost
> of the ICE brethren.
> Oh, and the overall fleet average is only 25.7 miles a day.
> Doug "
>



       
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Re: Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid buses

Jeff Major
In reply to this post by Brandon Kruger-2

Hey Brandon,

I was unable to pull up that article.  Who is Doug and
where did this quote come from?

I did some work on Bluebird EV and HEV buses made in
the mid 90s.  Used Westinghouse AC motors (234 hp) and
Northrup inverters.  EVs had 112 GC batteries and HEVs
had 56.  HEVs used Isuzu diesel engines.

I know where there are 5 HEVs and 4 EVs for sale
cheap.  Need some electrical work.  Low miles (very,
very low).  If anybody is sincerely interested,
contact me off list.

Jeff M

ps.  And 175 miles........NOT.


--- Brandon Kruger <[hidden email]> wrote:

> One of the comments at the end of this article
> stated:
> "We made several Blue Bird buses all electric in
> 1994. They went 175 miles
> on a charge and had much better performance than the
> gas or diesel units
> (read, do not floor it to get get going unless you
> want to launch everyone
> and everything not nailed down)and a fraction of the
> overall opperation cost
> of the ICE brethren.
> Oh, and the overall fleet average is only 25.7 miles
> a day.
> Doug "
>
> 175 miles range!?!?!?!!   In a school bus???  Is
> this possible with PbA
> considering school buses aren't very aerodynamic?
> I'd be very interested in
> seeing some numbers about the battery pack and
> Wh/mile.  Anyone converted a
> school bus?
>
> --
> Brandon Kruger
> http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
> http://cafepress.com/altfuel <-------- EV, PHEV, &
> Alt. Fuel Merchandise
>
> On 8/7/07, David S <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
>
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/07/22/tampa-schools-debut-new-plug-in-hybr
> > id-buses/



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Re: Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid buses

jerryd
In reply to this post by Brandon Kruger-2

           Hi Jeff and All,
                 If this is in Tampa I could check it out if
someone can tell me where it is or how to get in contact
with them. We have several AVS Ev bus' in used truck lots
around here that would make great RV EV's or hybrids.

                                  Jerry Dycus

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Jeff Major <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid
buses
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 07:02:14 -0700 (PDT)

>Hey Brandon,
>
>I was unable to pull up that article.  Who is Doug and
>where did this quote come from?
>
>I did some work on Bluebird EV and HEV buses made in
>the mid 90s.  Used Westinghouse AC motors (234 hp) and
>Northrup inverters.  EVs had 112 GC batteries and HEVs
>had 56.  HEVs used Isuzu diesel engines.
>
>I know where there are 5 HEVs and 4 EVs for sale
>cheap.  Need some electrical work.  Low miles (very,
>very low).  If anybody is sincerely interested,
>contact me off list.
>
>Jeff M
>
>ps.  And 175 miles........NOT.
>
>
>--- Brandon Kruger <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> One of the comments at the end of this article
>> stated:
>> "We made several Blue Bird buses all electric in
>> 1994. They went 175 miles
>> on a charge and had much better performance than the
>> gas or diesel units
>> (read, do not floor it to get get going unless you
>> want to launch everyone
>> and everything not nailed down)and a fraction of the
>> overall opperation cost
>> of the ICE brethren.
>> Oh, and the overall fleet average is only 25.7 miles
>> a day.
>> Doug "
>>
>> 175 miles range!?!?!?!!   In a school bus???  Is
>> this possible with PbA
>> considering school buses aren't very aerodynamic?
>> I'd be very interested in
>> seeing some numbers about the battery pack and
>> Wh/mile.  Anyone converted a
>> school bus?
>>
>> --
>> Brandon Kruger
>> http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
>> http://cafepress.com/altfuel <-------- EV, PHEV, &
>> Alt. Fuel Merchandise
>>
>> On 8/7/07, David S <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>>
>http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/07/22/tampa-schools-debut-new-plug-in-hybr
>> > id-buses/
>
>
>
>    
>___________________________________________________________
>_________________________ Shape Yahoo! in your own image.
>Join our Network Research Panel today!  
>http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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Re: Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid buses

EVDL Administrator
In reply to this post by Jeff Major
On 13 Aug 2007 at 7:02, Jeff Major wrote:

> Used Westinghouse AC motors (234 hp) and
> Northrup inverters.  ...
> I know where there are 5 HEVs and 4 EVs for sale cheap.  

Hmm.  I'm not a racer nor do I play one anywhere, but I wonder how that
motor would do in a lightweight rail.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator

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Re: Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid buses

Brandon Kruger-2
In reply to this post by Jeff Major
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/07/22/tampa-schools-debut-new-plug-in-hybrid-buses/

I don't know this Doug.  It was one of the comments at the end of the
article.

--
Brandon Kruger
http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
http://cafepress.com/altfuel <---- EV, PHEV, & Alt. Fuel Merchandise

On 8/13/07, Jeff Major <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Hey Brandon,
>
> I was unable to pull up that article.  Who is Doug and
> where did this quote come from?
>
> I did some work on Bluebird EV and HEV buses made in
> the mid 90s.  Used Westinghouse AC motors (234 hp) and
> Northrup inverters.  EVs had 112 GC batteries and HEVs
> had 56.  HEVs used Isuzu diesel engines.
>
> I know where there are 5 HEVs and 4 EVs for sale
> cheap.  Need some electrical work.  Low miles (very,
> very low).  If anybody is sincerely interested,
> contact me off list.
>
> Jeff M
>
> ps.  And 175 miles........NOT.
>
>
> --- Brandon Kruger <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > One of the comments at the end of this article
> > stated:
> > "We made several Blue Bird buses all electric in
> > 1994. They went 175 miles
> > on a charge and had much better performance than the
> > gas or diesel units
> > (read, do not floor it to get get going unless you
> > want to launch everyone
> > and everything not nailed down)and a fraction of the
> > overall opperation cost
> > of the ICE brethren.
> > Oh, and the overall fleet average is only 25.7 miles
> > a day.
> > Doug "
> >
> > 175 miles range!?!?!?!!   In a school bus???  Is
> > this possible with PbA
> > considering school buses aren't very aerodynamic?
> > I'd be very interested in
> > seeing some numbers about the battery pack and
> > Wh/mile.  Anyone converted a
> > school bus?
> >
> > --
> > Brandon Kruger
> > http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
> > http://cafepress.com/altfuel <-------- EV, PHEV, &
> > Alt. Fuel Merchandise
> >
> > On 8/7/07, David S <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> >
>
> http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/07/22/tampa-schools-debut-new-plug-in-hybr
> > > id-buses/
>
>
>
>
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!
> http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
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