Re: Twizy Dizzy Nizzy - Buyers Are Smitten

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Re: Twizy Dizzy Nizzy - Buyers Are Smitten

fred ungewitter
That Twizzy auction ended at US$15K with reserve not met. That's pretty amazing for a little runabout like that. I've got a Gizmo soon to be on the market with 75 mile range for the light-footed (finger throttle, so light-fingered, but that doesn't sound correct) with a 52 mph top speed. One thing the Twizzy has that the Gizmo does not is a second seat, if you're the Thin Man. It doesn't look as though one could place a bag of groceries on the rear seat. I recognize that the passenger's legs will be surrounding the driver, a common space-providing method in tandem vehicles.

I'm sure the seller is disappointed to not have made a sale. It looks like a real head-turner.
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Re: Twizy Dizzy Nizzy - Buyers Are Smitten

EVDL Administrator
On 4 Nov 2012 at 13:35, fred wrote:

> I've got a Gizmo soon to be on the market ...

Interesting.  Did you buy the name and/or design from Nevco?  If not, you
may want to discuss the name with them.

http://www.nevco-ev.com/index2.html

As for the price, I think you're on the right track.  Despite the modest
success of the few now on the market, I'm skeptical that selling EVs as
conventional cars is going to generate the sales volume necessary to make
them truly affordable, unless they start off cheaper than the ICE
equivalent, simply because (forgive me) EVs are perceived as less capable
than ICEVs.  ICEVs still have more and faster "chargers," and will ... until
there are more EVs to use them.  

We've been chasing our tail this way for decades.  EVs cost too much because
they don't sell because they cost too much.  There aren't enough public fast
chargers because there aren't enough EVs because there aren't enough public
fast chargers.  And so on.  

Legislation like California's early 1990s Braude Initiative (which was badly
watered down, alas) and the current tax credits have tried to address this
by stimulating demand.  You may think that's fundamentally the wrong answer,
or you may think it simply wasn't aggressive enough, depending on your
politics (and that's not for discussion here).  But while it's gratifying to
see >any< interest in EVs, you have to admit that the Leaf and MiEV aren't
exactly on fire with demand yet.  

Long term, this will change if/when the entire world is experiencing what
New York is dealing with right now - liquid fuel that not only is expensive,
but effectively unavailable.  

Short term ... well, let's just say there's a good reason that the most
successful road EVs so far are electric bikes.  They do significantly more
than a conventional bike, but they don't cost thousands of dollars more.  
They fit neatly into the niche between bikes and ICE motorcycles and
scooters.  There are thousands of people for whom a conventional bike won't
work (they're not fit, they can't arrive at work sweaty, and so on), but who
for whatever reason can't quite see themselves on an ICE bike.

Can you get some of these folks to pay more and get an enclosed cyclecar
like the Gizmo?  Good question.  Let's just say that you won't be the first
person who's tried.

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/


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Re: Buyers Are Smitten - Leaf and MiEV

rodhower
> interest in EVs, you have to admit that the Leaf and MiEV aren't
exactly on fire with demand yet. >
I test drove an MiEV 2 weeks ago and was impressed with the ride and
performance.  During the test
drive I told the salesman I really wanted to check out a Nissan Leaf and he said
no problem, we have
one at our Nissan dealership (Waikem in NE Ohio has almost all brands to choose
from).  I sat down in the
Leaf and was impressed with the placement of everything, including signals,
buttons, displays etc., it all seemed
pretty intuitive.  Then I got the pleasure of driving this fine machine, very
smooth, plenty of power and an experience
I've never had with any ICE machine.  I'm not sure how many people have driven
the Leaf, but I was really impressed.
I believe most drivers would prefer this vehicle given the chance and a lower
price with economies of scale.

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Re: Twizy Dizzy Nizzy - Buyers Are Smitten

David Nelson-5
In reply to this post by EVDL Administrator
On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 5:56 PM, EVDL Administrator <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 4 Nov 2012 at 13:35, fred wrote:
>
>> I've got a Gizmo soon to be on the market ...
>
> Interesting.  Did you buy the name and/or design from Nevco?  If not, you
> may want to discuss the name with them.

David,

Knowing that Fred has Gizmo #30 (Mine is #31) built by Nevco, I didn't
even think to take what he said the way you did. He meant that it
would be ready to sell soon, not that it was going into production.
LOL

I'm sure Fred will chime in here too but basically he put a 20s pack
of 180Ah CALB cells in his Gizmo. The electronics in his Gizmo had the
voltage range for this upgrade. Naturally going with a 64V nominal
pack from a 48V nominal pack increased the top speed and greatly
extended the range that a lead acid pack would do.

FWIW, from my correspondence with Fred over the years and seeing
pictures of his Gizmo he did a nice job fixing it up and upgrading the
pack.

--
David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328
http://2003gizmo.blogspot.com
http://www.levforum.com

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Re: Twizy Dizzy Nizzy - Buyers Are Smitten

EVDL Administrator
On 4 Nov 2012 at 18:51, David Nelson wrote:

> He meant that it would be ready to sell soon, not that it was going
> into production.

Duh!  <facepalm>

Thanks for clarifying that.  Kind of a pity though that nobody has come
along to revive Gizmo production.  It seemed like a well thought out EV.

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/


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Re: Twizy Dizzy Nizzy - Buyers Are Smitten

David Nelson-5
On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 7:10 PM, EVDL Administrator <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 4 Nov 2012 at 18:51, David Nelson wrote:
>
>> He meant that it would be ready to sell soon, not that it was going
>> into production.
>
> Duh!  <facepalm>
>
> Thanks for clarifying that.  Kind of a pity though that nobody has come
> along to revive Gizmo production.  It seemed like a well thought out EV.

Yes it is a great little car. I've put over 20k miles on mine since
August 2006, most of that in the last 3 years. A few changes would
make it even better. Given that only 38 were built they are still of a
prototype feel. I've gotten mine pretty good now, however. Probably
the biggest improvement, besides a LiFePO4 battery pack, was getting
variable regen setup. IIRC, only 9 Gizmos have SepEx motors. Fred's is
one of them. Black Sheep Technology built me a replacement circuit so
I now gave 3-wheeled braking. :)

--
David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328
http://2003gizmo.blogspot.com
http://www.levforum.com

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Re: Twizy Dizzy Nizzy - Buyers Are Smitten

brucedp5
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by fred ungewitter
[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Twizy-Dizzy-Nizzy-Buyers-Are-Smitten-tp4659143.html
]

According to web research, a Twizy UK purchase price starts at GBP 6,690
 (USD ~$11k). UK petrol prices are much higher than in the U.S. so, I
can foresee a good steady market developing for the Twizy at that price.

In that newswire posted, I included that there are vendors to address UK
inclement weather (the need of doors and windows). So, not unlike the
slow steady growth of the VW beetle base in its early years, there could
be more vendors offering other options or add-ons for the Twizy. Perhaps
a larger rear storage boot/trunk, a front nose piece to give it that MG,
Mini, or Mercedes look, a workman's van shell add-on so it would be
light utility vehicle, etc.

As fat-cat greed pushes fuel prices up in the U.S. toward what the UK is
already experiencing, a lower priced EV even with a less than highway
speed capability may not be a barrier (depending on your commute). The
piece mentioned that pack-leasing might a barrier, but with an EV cost
of about half of a used Leaf EV or around a third of a new Leaf EV, that
too may be overcome.

I am envious as it seems Europeans do not have the barriers we have in
the U.S. to purchasing and driving these EVs (required crash tests,
'has-to' be de-tuned to nEV speeds so it can be sold in the U.S, etc.).
Now if only Renault had the same 800 lb Gorilla ability that our 'we
bailed you out' GM has, U.S. restrictions could change to allow these
low-cost EVs be sold in the U.S. un-neutered.


{brucedp.150m.com}
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/800_lb_gorilla
...
http://blog.renault.com/en/2012/05/03/renault-twizy-in-new-york-city/
Twizy struts its stuff in New York City | Renault.com – blog
May 3, 2012 – Feel free to interact with us! ... Although Twizy won't go
on sale in the US (but you just wait and see), we ... I'd love to buy
this car in the US ...
...
http://insideevs.com/the-renault-twizy-visits-new-york-and-soon-us-dealerships/
 ... “Renault Twizy won’t go on sale in the US … but you just wait and
 see”.


-
On Sun, Nov 4, 2012, at 01:35 PM, fred wrote:
> That Twizzy auction ended at US$15K with reserve not met. ...
-

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - IMAP accessible web-mail


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