Re: [sfeva] SF landlord won't let tenant plug-in for a charge. Contact information included.

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Re: [sfeva] SF landlord won't let tenant plug-in for a charge. Contact information included.

Lawrence Rhodes
Dear Mr Wiegel,   CCCS 1353.9 says it all.  A toaster could be more dangerous
than an electric vehicle.  I have a meter I could donate to keep track of
costs.  The Chevy Volt was designed with low amp sockets like this in mind.  I'm
sure the tenant would pay for any upgrades needed but this is a mute point.  
Sincerely, Lawrence Rhodes...

California Civil Code Section 1353.9:
(a) Any covenant, restriction, or condition contained in any deed, contract,
security instrument, or other instrument affecting the transfer or sale of any
interest in a common interest development, and any provision of a governing
document, as defined in subdivision (j) of Section 1351, that effectively
prohibits or restricts the installation or use of an electric vehicle charging
station is void and unenforceable.    (b) (1) This section does not apply to
provisions that impose reasonable restrictions on electric vehicle charging
stations. However, it is the policy of the state to promote, encourage, and
remove obstacles to the use of electric vehicle charging stations.    (2) For
purposes of this section, "reasonable restrictions" are restrictions that do not
significantly increase the cost of the station or significantly decrease its
efficiency or specified performance.    (c) An electric vehicle charging station
shall meet applicable health and safety standards and requirements imposed by
state and local permitting authorities.    (d) For purposes of this section,
"electric vehicle charging station" means a station that is designed in
compliance with the California Building Standards Code and delivers electricity
from a source outside an electric vehicle into one or more electric vehicles. An
electric vehicle charging station may include several charge points
simultaneously connecting several electric vehicles to the station and any
related equipment needed to facilitate charging plug-in electric vehicles.    
(e) If approval is required for the installation or use of an electric vehicle
charging station, the application for approval shall be processed and approved
by the association in the same manner as an application for approval of an
architectural modification to the property, and shall not be willfully avoided
or delayed. The approval or denial of an application shall be in writing. If an
application is not denied in writing within 60 days from the date of receipt of
the application, the application shall be deemed approved, unless that delay is
the result of a reasonable request for additional information.    (f) If the
electric vehicle charging station is to be placed in a common area or an
exclusive use common area, as designated in the common interest development's
declaration, the following provisions apply:    (1) The homeowner first shall
obtain approval from the common interest development to install the electric
vehicle charging station and the common interest development shall approve the
installation if the homeowner agrees in writing to do all of the following:    
(A) Comply with the common interest development's architectural standards for
the installation of the station.    (B) Engage a licensed contractor to install
the station.    (C) Within 14 days of approval, provide a certificate of
insurance that names the common interest development as an additional insured
under the homeowner's insurance policy.    (D) Pay for the electricity usage
associated with the station.    (2) The homeowner and each successive homeowner
of the parking stall on which or near where the electric vehicle charging
station is placed shall be responsible for all of the following:    (A) Costs
for damage to the station, common areas, exclusive common areas, or adjacent
units resulting from the installation, maintenance, repair, removal, or
replacement of the station.    (B) Costs for the maintenance, removal, repair,
and replacement of the electric vehicle charging station until it has been
removed from the common area or exclusive use common area.    (C) The cost of
electricity associated with the station.    (D) Disclosing to prospective buyers
the existence of any electric vehicle charging station and the related
responsibilities of the homeowner.    (3) The homeowner and each successive
homeowner, at all times, shall maintain an umbrella liability coverage policy in
the amount of one million dollars ($1,000,000) covering the obligations of the
owner under paragraph (2), and shall name the common interest development as an
additional insured under the policy with a right to notice of cancellation.    
(g) An association that willfully violates this section shall be liable to the
applicant or other party for actual damages, and shall pay a civil penalty to
the applicant or other party in an amount not to exceed one thousand dollars
($1,000).    (h) In any action to enforce compliance with this section, the
prevailing plaintiff shall be awarded reasonable attorney's fees.


>
>From: Andrew Wiegel <[hidden email]>
>To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email];
>[hidden email]
>Sent: Thu, May 10, 2012 12:44:33 PM
>Subject: Re: [sfeva] SF landlord won't let tenant plug-in for a charge.  Contact
>information included.
>
>Before leaping to judgment and taking sides here,  I encourage GGEVA Members to
>see both sides.  
>
>
>
>My disclosure: In addition to be a GGEVA Board Member and sponsor, I am also the
>attorney who responded on behalf of Trinity Managment to the attorney hired by
>Wiesner with regard to this matter.  I am continuing to work with Trinity on the
>orderly deployment of EV charging.
>
>
>1. 1000 Chestnut, where Wiesner lives, is an older building with relatively
>unknown wiring capabilities.
>
>
>2. Tenants at 1000 Chestnut do not pay for their electricity
>
>
>
>3. There is an aging outlet in the building garage which Mr. Wiesner, one of
>many tenants in the building, seeks to use.
>
>
>4. There is no provision for metering Mr. Wieser's energy consumption, which in
>my opinion he grossly undervalued.
>
>
>5. Ted Gullicksen, quoted below, is a tenant activist whose web page features a
>gif of a fist pounding on a property owner as its logo. No one has ever accused
>him of being neutral.
>
>
>6. David Garcia, on the other hand, is the most well respected judge the City of
>San Francisco ever had in the field of Landlord and Tenant rights.
>
>
>7. Trinity is in fact incorporating EV infrastructure into current projects and
>looking into retrofitting older ones. It would be a real shame if the EV
>community allowed itself to be co-opted into this adversarial approach
>apparently urged by Gullicksen. I encourage a productive approach.
>
>
>When I responded to Wiesner's attorney on behalf of Trinity, this is what I
>actually wrote:
>
>
>"I represent Trinity Management Services.  I am responding to your letter of
>April 30, 2012.
>
>Trinity Management Services is committed to the support of environmentally sound
>and sustainable practices, including the evaluation, planning and deployment of
>appropriate infrastructure to encourage the use of electric vehicles by tenants.
>
>While concrete steps along these lines have already been undertaken in new
>construction, there are special challenges to be considered in the
>implementation of electric vehicle charging infrastructure in older structures.
>
>My client can not simply endorse the disorganized and haphazard do-it-yourself
>approach that some tenant or tenants might wish. There are serious life-safety
>issues which must be considered, including possible overloading of electric
>circuits and panels, fire and /or electrical shock hazards, and others.
>
>While Mr. Wiesner is to be commended on the purchase of a vehicle which runs on
>electricity at least some of the time, my client can not endorse the use of a
>garage outlet which is outside of your client’s lease and rental premises for
>the purpose of fueling his vehicle."
>
>
>
>
>Andrew J Wiegel
>Wiegel Law Group
>414 Gough Street
>SF CA 94102
>
>
>[hidden email]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Lawrence Rhodes <[hidden email]>
>To: ev <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Thu, May 10, 2012 11:40 am
>Subject: [sfeva] SF landlord won't let tenant plug-in for a charge.  Contact
>information included.
>
>
>Richard Wiesner is pretty happy with his new electric car.  "Living in the Bay
>Area, you just feel like you have some obligation to be as green as you possibly
>can," Wiesner said.  As long as he can keep his car charged up, Wiesner hardly
>uses any gasoline anymore. He figured that would be no problem. He lives in a
>San Francisco high-rise and when he parks at his assigned space, there's an
>electrical outlet right there  "This car is designed to be convenient; that's
>the beauty of the Volt," Wiesner said.  His Chevy Volt needs only an ordinary
>socket. The setup seemed ideal, until he told his landlord about it.  "The
>answer came back, 'We at Trinity Management do not allow any alterations to our
>premises,'" Wiesner said.  Wiesner explained it required "no alterations" and he
>would pay for the extra energy cost. Still, his landlord gave him a flat "no."
>Wiesner could park, but he could not plug his car to the socket three feet away.  
>The building manager emailed Wiesner saying simply "Trinity Management Services
>does not approve such requests."  Now Wiesner says he has to drive around
>looking for charging stations.  He also contacted 7 On Your Side, and we tried
>to talk with the building owner, developer Angelo Sangiacomo and his company,
>Trinity Properties. No one from the company returned our calls. We reached
>building manager Brian Hsieh. He said: "I am not allowed to comment on this,"
>and "We're not going to say anything."  "I think as we see electric vehicles
>becoming more popular that we'll run into more situations where there are
>landlord-tenant disputes," San Francisco Tenants Union spokesperson Ted
>Gullicksen said.  Gullicksen believes Wiesner has every right to plug in his
>car.  "If the tenants had use of them in the past then they have use of them in
>the future," Gullicksen said.  However, an expert in landlord tenant law
>disagrees.  "I don't' see any reason in the law why the landlord would be
>obliged to make that socket available," David Garcia said.  Garcia, a former
>superior court judge, now mediates civil disputes. Garcia says if the landlord
>lets one tenant plug in, he may have to grant access to everybody else. And
>since Wiesner's lease doesn't give him specific rights to the socket, the
>landlord can say no.  "It's not a part of his unit; that socket is part of a
>common area," Garcia said.  Gullicksen says just the opposite: if the lease
>doesn't prohibit use of the socket, it's fair game.  "That means they have the
>right to use the outlets without restrictions," Gullicksen said.  One thing
>everyone agrees on, this conflict is bound to spread, especially in a city where
>half the residents are tenants and more are buying electric cars.  "If every
>landlord were to take this position, then no tenant would be able to buy an
>electric vehicle," Garcia said.  "It's not fair because tenants have the right
>to have electric cars just like homeowners do and I think all of us want to see
>more gas guzzling vehicles taken off the road," Gullicksen said.  Wiesner hopes
>someday charging stations will be the norm and this dispute will seem silly.  
>The city's Department of Environment is encouraging landlords to install EV
>charging stations at their buildings. Other cities are taking similar steps. [?
>2012 ABC  KGO-TV/DT  All Rights Reserved]  
>http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/05/next-target-for-electric-car-sales-apartment-dwellers/1#.T6gXjdmm7u8
>   Below is the contact form for Trinity Management Services.  Below that phone  
>numbers.  I let them know what I thought of their Electric Vehicle charging  
>policy.  I encourage anyone to contact them.  I used their contact form.  
>http://www.trinitymanagement.com/contact.cfm?Type=ContactUs  Call (415)
>433-3333,    fax (415) 575-3388   ------------------------------------  Yahoo!
>Groups Links  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sfeva/  <*> Your email settings:     Individual
>Email | Traditional  <*> To change settings online go to:    
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sfeva/join     (Yahoo! ID required)  <*> To change
>settings via email:     [hidden email]  
>[hidden email]  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an
>email to:     [hidden email]  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups
>is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/   
>
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Re: [sfeva] SF landlord won't let tenant plug-in for a charge. Contact information included.

EVDL Administrator
Being an owner of rental property myself, I can see what the property owners
might be thinking.  If this were a single-family house or even a duplex, I
don't think it would be much of a problem (at least to me).  But for an
apartment complex  (which this seems to be) I do see some concerns.  

First, this is probably a general use receptacle, intended for mainenance of
the complex.  If it's charging an EV, it's not available for that or other
"official" use.  

They may also be concerned about liability.  Suppose someone trips over the
power cable and gets hurt - they could be held legally responsible for
allowing a hazard to exist.  I can even imagine the EV owner himself getting
shocked while connecting or disconnecting, and suing the building owner.

I wonder if the EV owner might get farther by requesting that an approved
charging station be installed, and offering to pay for it.

This situation is apt to arise even more frequently in Europe and Asia,
where American-style single-family-home-with-garage suburbia is rare, and
more people live in apartment blocks.

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/


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Re: [sfeva] SF landlord won't let tenant plug-in for a charge. Contact information included.

Lee Hart
On 5/10/2012 5:28 PM, EVDL Administrator wrote:

> Being an owner of rental property myself, I can see what the property
> owners might be thinking... First, this is probably a general use
> receptacle, intended for mainenance of the complex.  If it's charging
> an EV, it's not available for that or other "official" use.
>
> They may also be concerned about liability.  Suppose someone trips
> over the power cable and gets hurt - they could be held legally
> responsible for allowing a hazard to exist.  I can even imagine the
> EV owner himself getting shocked while connecting or disconnecting,
> and suing the building owner.
>
> I wonder if the EV owner might get farther by requesting that an
> approved charging station be installed, and offering to pay for it.

And yet, there are already thousands of these "general use" outlets
alread installed at apartments all over Minnesota, North and South
Dakota, Northern Michigan, Wisconsin... all the northern states. They've
been there for decades; at least 50+ years.

The outlets are free, unmetered, and unlocked. They are there for
residents to plug in their block heaters in the winter, but no one I
know of cares if you plug your EV charger into them.

The only restriction I've ever seen is that the apartment complex may
have assigned parking, and you pay perhaps $10 extra a month to get a
spot with the charging receptacle.

I've never heard of anyone misusing them, or suing anyone for tripping
on the cord, etc. I'm sure it must happen occasionally (after all, there
are untold thousands of them. But it must be so infrequent as to not
warrant attention.
--
First they ignore you; then they mock you; then they fight you; then you
win.
        -- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: [sfeva] SF landlord won't let tenant plug-in for a charge. Contact information included.

Tom Keenan
In reply to this post by EVDL Administrator
Would this case be covered by this recently enacted law in California (SB
209)?  Somewhat cumbersome requirements for both the landlord and the
tenant...  Full text can be found here:

http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/billtrack/text.html?bvid=20110SB20994CHP

SB 209, Corbett. Common interest developments: electric vehicle
charging stations.
The Davis-Stirling Common Interest Development Act defines and
regulates common interest developments, which include community
apartment projects, condominium projects, planned developments, and
stock cooperatives.
This bill would provide that any covenant, restriction, or
condition contained in any deed, contract, security instrument, or
other instrument affecting the transfer or sale of any interest in a
common interest development, or any provision of the governing
documents of a common interest development, that effectively
prohibits or restricts the installation or use of an electrical
vehicle charging station is void and unenforceable. The bill would
authorize an association, as defined, to impose reasonable
restrictions on those stations, as specified, and would impose
requirements with respect to an association's approval process for
those stations. If the station is to be placed in a common interest
area or an exclusive use common area, the homeowner would be
responsible for various costs associated with maintaining and
repairing the station, as well as costs for damage to common areas
and adjacent units resulting from installation and maintenance of the
station. The bill would impose other responsibilities on the
homeowner, including maintaining an umbrella liability coverage
policy of $1,000,000 that names the common interest development as an
additional insured. An association that violates the bill's
provisions would be liable for damages and a civil penalty, as
specified.

Tom Keenan

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Re: [sfeva] SF landlord won't let tenant plug-in for a charge. Contact information included.

Nathan Loofbourrow
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Tom Keenan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Would this case be covered by this recently enacted law in California (SB
> 209)?  Somewhat cumbersome requirements for both the landlord and the
> tenant...  Full text can be found here:
>
> http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/billtrack/text.html?bvid=20110SB20994CHP

If Davis-Stirling applies to this building, he has a case. But most
rental apartments are not subject to Davis-Stirling, unless he's
renting a condo.

n

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Re: [sfeva] SF landlord won't let tenant plug-in for a charge. Contact information included.

martinwinlow
In reply to this post by EVDL Administrator
Most people in Europe don't live in apartment blocks, tho in Asia they probably do.  Certainly in the UK, the most common form of housing is terraced but most terraced housing has no off-street parking.  So charging is probably going to be a local authority issue which wiil be inductive or post-type, street-based installations or (more likely) nothing at all.

On an off-topic (to EVing at least) but relevant to this story note, how on earth did the US become so litigious?  It does cause the craziest (to us anyway) problems in the most obscure ways...

MW


On 10 May 2012, at 23:28, EVDL Administrator wrote:

> Being an owner of rental property myself, I can see what the property owners
> might be thinking.  If this were a single-family house or even a duplex, I
> don't think it would be much of a problem (at least to me).  But for an
> apartment complex  (which this seems to be) I do see some concerns.  
>
> First, this is probably a general use receptacle, intended for mainenance of
> the complex.  If it's charging an EV, it's not available for that or other
> "official" use.  
>
> They may also be concerned about liability.  Suppose someone trips over the
> power cable and gets hurt - they could be held legally responsible for
> allowing a hazard to exist.  I can even imagine the EV owner himself getting
> shocked while connecting or disconnecting, and suing the building owner.
>
> I wonder if the EV owner might get farther by requesting that an approved
> charging station be installed, and offering to pay for it.
>
> This situation is apt to arise even more frequently in Europe and Asia,
> where American-style single-family-home-with-garage suburbia is rare, and
> more people live in apartment blocks.
>
> David Roden
> EVDL Administrator
> http://www.evdl.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> |
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Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk



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