S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
25 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

KilowattA798
With the generosity of Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran over 120
mph a few times with the best being 122.82 mph. The track conditions were
great with the sun out but with the night comes a cool track and street tired
kids cars. Times and mph kept getting better but with the track conditions
getting worse each run I reluctantly pulled the Plug.

Shawn supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians who
assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott installed, a beautiful pack
into my truck in under an hour. We drove it down to the local Friday Fish
Fry as a 1st test run and what a difference than the 30 hawkers on board. It
was a rocket............I new then that on Saturday I would have my hands
full!

I now have a faster truck in the 1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends


Dennis Berube
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100314/0897879e/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

Thos True
Congratulations Dennis! Sounds like a great day. -Tom

On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:32 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> With the generosity of Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran over 120
> mph a few times with the best being 122.82 mph. The track conditions were
> great with the sun out but with the night comes a cool track and street
> tired
> kids cars. Times and mph kept getting better but with the track conditions
> getting worse each run I reluctantly pulled the Plug.
>
> Shawn supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians who
> assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott installed, a
> beautiful pack
> into my truck in under an hour. We drove it down to the local Friday Fish
> Fry as a 1st test run and what a difference than the 30 hawkers on board.
> It
> was a rocket............I new then that on Saturday I would have my hands
> full!
>
> I now have a faster truck in the 1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends
>
>
> Dennis Berube
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100314/0897879e/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>


--
Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100314/62b9f5ba/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

Bill Dube
In reply to this post by KilowattA798
Sound like a great day at the track.

         What were your ETs? What was your ET at 122.82 mph?

         Did the ET and the MPH go up together, or did the ET go down
slightly as the MPH went up?

         Bill Dube'

At 07:32 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote:

>With the generosity of Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran over 120
>mph a few times with the best being 122.82 mph. The track conditions were
>great with the sun out but with the night comes a cool track and street tired
>kids cars. Times and mph kept getting better but with the track conditions
>getting worse each run I reluctantly pulled the Plug.
>
>Shawn supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians who
>assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott installed, a
>beautiful pack
>into my truck in under an hour. We drove it down to the local Friday Fish
>Fry as a 1st test run and what a difference than the 30 hawkers on board. It
>was a rocket............I new then that on Saturday I would have my hands
>full!
>
>I now have a faster truck in the 1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends
>
>
>Dennis Berube
>-------------- next part --------------
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>URL:
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100314/0897879e/attachment.html 
>
>_______________________________________________
>General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
>Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

lawlessind
Hi Bill.  I really wanted to make the trip to Phoenix but had to work
Saturday.  According to reports from Derek and Dennis the pack worked
beautifully on it's first day out with it's new BMS that Derek recently
fitted.  I am not sure of the exact ET's but they were in the 11.4
range.  As you know one of the really cool things about EV racing is
that the same battery can be used to power completely different
machines. About the only thing Dennis' truck and my bike had in common
was their Zilla controller.... Until now.  You generously loaned me
your A123 pack for OJ and I was glad to loan mine to Dennis.

Shawn


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Dube <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 12:12 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
Lawless


Sound like a great day at the track.         What were your ETs? What
was your ET at 122.82 mph?         Did the ET and the MPH go up
together, or did the ET go down slightly as the MPH went up?        
Bill Dube'At 07:32 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote:>With the generosity of
Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran over 120>mph a few times
with the best being 122.82 mph. The track conditions were>great with
the sun out but with the night comes a cool track and street tired>kids
cars. Times and mph kept getting better but with the track
conditions>getting worse each run I reluctantly pulled the Plug.>>Shawn
supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians
who>assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott installed, a
 >beautiful pack>into my truck in under an hour. We drove it down to the
local Friday Fish>Fry as a 1st test run and what a difference than the
30 hawkers on board. It>was a rocket............I new then that on
Saturday I would have my hands>full!>>I now have a faster truck in the
1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends>>>Dennis Berube>-------------- next
part -------------->An HTML attachment was scrubbed...>URL:
 >http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100314/0897879e/a
ttachment.html
 >>_______________________________________________>General support:
http://evdl.org/help/>Unsubscribe:
http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub>Usage guidelines:
http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv>Archive / Forum:
http://evdl.org/archive/>Subscription options:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev_______________________________________________General 
support: http://evdl.org/help/Unsubscribe: 
http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usubUsage guidelines:
http://evdl.org/help/index.html#convArchive / Forum:
http://evdl.org/archive/Subscription options:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

lawlessind
In reply to this post by Bill Dube
Bill,

One other thing I forgot to mention. I did not ask Derek or Dennis what
the exact controller settings were but I'm guessing that they had the
2K cranked to the max. If I'm correct than I believe this is the first
time anyone has ever hit the Zilla "wall".  I know that in my
experience I have never had the Zilla EHV 2K set at max motor voltage
and max motor current with a 363 volt pack without doing nasty things
to my motors.  The 9" ADC's I had would take the 2K current but would
start getting grumpy at about 175-180 volts.  My little 7" GE's are
very happy at well over 200 volts but they turn any current over about
1600 straight into heat. I believe the 1540 A123 pack has the muscle to
feed 3000 motor amps off the line. Given your A123 experience, do you
concur?  I'm wondering if Otmar can put together the logic and
connection to parallel two of my 2K's to feed Dennis' monster motor.  
It would be nice to know how much input power it can handle.

Shawn


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Dube <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 12:12 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
Lawless


Sound like a great day at the track.         What were your ETs? What
was your ET at 122.82 mph?         Did the ET and the MPH go up
together, or did the ET go down slightly as the MPH went up?        
Bill Dube'At 07:32 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote:>With the generosity of
Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran over 120>mph a few times
with the best being 122.82 mph. The track conditions were>great with
the sun out but with the night comes a cool track and street tired>kids
cars. Times and mph kept getting better but with the track
conditions>getting worse each run I reluctantly pulled the Plug.>>Shawn
supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians
who>assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott installed, a
 >beautiful pack>into my truck in under an hour. We drove it down to the
local Friday Fish>Fry as a 1st test run and what a difference than the
30 hawkers on board. It>was a rocket............I new then that on
Saturday I would have my hands>full!>>I now have a faster truck in the
1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends>>>Dennis Berube>-------------- next
part -------------->An HTML attachment was scrubbed...>URL:
 >http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100314/0897879e/a
ttachment.html
 >>_______________________________________________>General support:
http://evdl.org/help/>Unsubscribe:
http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub>Usage guidelines:
http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv>Archive / Forum:
http://evdl.org/archive/>Subscription options:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev_______________________________________________General 
support: http://evdl.org/help/Unsubscribe: 
http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usubUsage guidelines:
http://evdl.org/help/index.html#convArchive / Forum:
http://evdl.org/archive/Subscription options:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

Mike Willmon
In reply to this post by Bill Dube
Funny you mention this Bill. All my higest trap speeds are with  
significantly lower ET's.  Why does this happen?  I note you higest  
trap speed does not coorespont to your top ET either.

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 14, 2010, at 9:12 PM, Bill Dube <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sound like a great day at the track.
>
>         What were your ETs? What was your ET at 122.82 mph?
>
>         Did the ET and the MPH go up together, or did the ET go down
> slightly as the MPH went up?
>
>         Bill Dube'
>
> At 07:32 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote:
>> With the generosity of Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran  
>> over 120
>> mph a few times with the best being 122.82 mph. The track  
>> conditions were
>> great with the sun out but with the night comes a cool track and  
>> street tired
>> kids cars. Times and mph kept getting better but with the track  
>> conditions
>> getting worse each run I reluctantly pulled the Plug.
>>
>> Shawn supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians who
>> assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott installed, a
>> beautiful pack
>> into my truck in under an hour. We drove it down to the local  
>> Friday Fish
>> Fry as a 1st test run and what a difference than the 30 hawkers on  
>> board. It
>> was a rocket............I new then that on Saturday I would have my  
>> hands
>> full!
>>
>> I now have a faster truck in the 1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends
>>
>>
>> Dennis Berube
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100314/0897879e/attachment.html
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
>> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

Bob Rice-2
In reply to this post by KilowattA798
   Amazing! After all, the S-10's have the aerodynamics of a Subway car or
brick!HOW could ya keep it on the track, traction wise!? Must have had some
wheelslip? The Race of the Summer; White Zoombie VS Smoke screen? Good Job,
Shawn and Crew! That motor Dennis has must be a BEAST!?Or one motor can
play, unassisted, except for voltage and battery pack? Was MOST of the
weight over the real wheels? A You TOOBE posting? I'll be looking for it!

    Seeya

    Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 9:32 PM
Subject: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless


> With the generosity of Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran over 120
> mph a few times with the best being 122.82 mph. The track conditions were
> great with the sun out but with the night comes a cool track and street
> tired
> kids cars. Times and mph kept getting better but with the track conditions
> getting worse each run I reluctantly pulled the Plug.
>
> Shawn supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians who
> assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott installed, a
> beautiful pack
> into my truck in under an hour. We drove it down to the local Friday Fish
> Fry as a 1st test run and what a difference than the 30 hawkers on board.
> It
> was a rocket............I new then that on Saturday I would have my hands
> full!
>
> I now have a faster truck in the 1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends
>
>
> Dennis Berube
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100314/0897879e/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

Bill Dube
In reply to this post by Mike Willmon
That is why I asked. ;-)

         The acceleration is not constant. This is the key point. (If
it were, the ET and MPH would work in a more intuitive manner.)

         The traction is what limits how much you can accelerate in
the beginning. The HP limits how long you can hold that maximum
acceleration. To get the lowest ET with a limited amount of HP, you
accelerate a lot in the beginning and almost not at all later on.

         If you accelerate hard in the beginning, you get to the end
of the track before you can get the car up to its top speed.
Basically, the car does not have time enough to get up to top speed.

         If you accelerate more slowly in the beginning, and do a
more constant acceleration along the length of the track, your car
has more time to get up to top speed.

         If you gear the car for a more gentle acceleration in the
beginning, that will lower the ET, but can greatly increase the MPH
at the end of the track.

Bill Dube'








At 09:18 AM 3/15/2010, you wrote:

>Funny you mention this Bill. All my higest trap speeds are with
>significantly lower ET's.  Why does this happen?  I note you higest
>trap speed does not coorespont to your top ET either.
>
>Mike
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Mar 14, 2010, at 9:12 PM, Bill Dube <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Sound like a great day at the track.
> >
> >         What were your ETs? What was your ET at 122.82 mph?
> >
> >         Did the ET and the MPH go up together, or did the ET go down
> > slightly as the MPH went up?
> >
> >         Bill Dube'
> >
> > At 07:32 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote:
> >> With the generosity of Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran
> >> over 120
> >> mph a few times with the best being 122.82 mph. The track
> >> conditions were
> >> great with the sun out but with the night comes a cool track and
> >> street tired
> >> kids cars. Times and mph kept getting better but with the track
> >> conditions
> >> getting worse each run I reluctantly pulled the Plug.
> >>
> >> Shawn supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians who
> >> assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott installed, a
> >> beautiful pack
> >> into my truck in under an hour. We drove it down to the local
> >> Friday Fish
> >> Fry as a 1st test run and what a difference than the 30 hawkers on
> >> board. It
> >> was a rocket............I new then that on Saturday I would have my
> >> hands
> >> full!
> >>
> >> I now have a faster truck in the 1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends
> >>
> >>
> >> Dennis Berube
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL:
> >>
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100314/0897879e/attachment.html
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> >> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> >> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> >> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> > Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
>Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Fwd: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

lawlessind
In reply to this post by lawlessind



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 7:25 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
Lawless


Hi Bill.  I really wanted to make the trip to Phoenix but had to work
Saturday.  According to reports from Derek and Dennis the pack worked
beautifully on it's first day out with it's new BMS that Derek recently
fitted.  I am not sure of the exact ET's but they were in the 11.4
range.  As you know one of the really cool things about EV racing is
that the same battery can be used to power completely different
machines. About the only thing Dennis' truck and my bike had in common
was their Zilla controller.... Until now.  You generously loaned me
your A123 pack for OJ and I was glad to loan mine to Dennis. 
 
Shawn 
 
-----Original Message----- 
From: Bill Dube <[hidden email]
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 12:12 am 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
Lawless 
 
Sound like a great day at the track.         What were your ETs? What
was your ET at 122.82 mph?         Did the ET and the MPH go up
together, or did the ET go down slightly as the MPH went up?        
Bill Dube'At 07:32 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote:>With the generosity of
Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran over 120>mph a few times
with the best being 122.82 mph. The track conditions were>great with
the sun out but with the night comes a cool track and street tired>kids
cars. Times and mph kept getting better but with the track
conditions>getting worse each run I reluctantly pulled the Plug.>>Shawn
supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians
who>assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott installed, a  
 >beautiful pack>into my truck in under an hour. We drove it down to the
local Friday Fish>Fry as a 1st test run and what a difference than the
30 hawkers on board. It>was a rocket............I new then that on
Saturday I would have my hands>full!>>I now have a faster truck in the
1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends>>>Dennis Berube>-------------- next
part -------------->An HTML attachment was scrubbed...>URL:  
 >http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100314/0897879e/a
 
ttachment.html  
 >>_______________________________________________>General support:
http://evdl.org/help/>Unsubscribe:
http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub>Usage guidelines:
http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv>Archive / Forum:
http://evdl.org/archive/>Subscription options:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev_______________________________________________General 
support: http://evdl.org/help/Unsubscribe: 
http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usubUsage guidelines:
http://evdl.org/help/index.html#convArchive / Forum:
http://evdl.org/archive/Subscription options:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 
 
 

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Fwd: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

lawlessind
In reply to this post by lawlessind



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 8:02 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
Lawless


Bill, 
 
One other thing I forgot to mention. I did not ask Derek or Dennis what
the exact controller settings were but I'm guessing that they had the
2K cranked to the max. If I'm correct than I believe this is the first
time anyone has ever hit the Zilla "wall".  I know that in my
experience I have never had the Zilla EHV 2K set at max motor voltage
and max motor current with a 363 volt pack without doing nasty things
to my motors.  The 9" ADC's I had would take the 2K current but would
start getting grumpy at about 175-180 volts.  My little 7" GE's are
very happy at well over 200 volts but they turn any current over about
1600 straight into heat. I believe the 1540 A123 pack has the muscle to
feed 3000 motor amps off the line. Given your A123 experience, do you
concur?  I'm wondering if Otmar can put together the logic and
connection to parallel two of my 2K's to feed Dennis' monster motor.  
It would be nice to know how much input power it can handle. 
 
Shawn 
 
-----Original Message----- 
From: Bill Dube <[hidden email]
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 12:12 am 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
Lawless 
 
Sound like a great day at the track.         What were your ETs? What
was your ET at 122.82 mph?         Did the ET and the MPH go up
together, or did the ET go down slightly as the MPH went up?        
Bill Dube'At 07:32 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote:>With the generosity of
Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran over 120>mph a few times
with the best being 122.82 mph. The track conditions were>great with
the sun out but with the night comes a cool track and street tired>kids
cars. Times and mph kept getting better but with the track
conditions>getting worse each run I reluctantly pulled the Plug.>>Shawn
supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians
who>assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott installed, a  
 >beautiful pack>into my truck in under an hour. We drove it down to the
local Friday Fish>Fry as a 1st test run and what a difference than the
30 hawkers on board. It>was a rocket............I new then that on
Saturday I would have my hands>full!>>I now have a faster truck in the
1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends>>>Dennis Berube>-------------- next
part -------------->An HTML attachment was scrubbed...>URL:  
 >http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100314/0897879e/a
 
ttachment.html  
 >>_______________________________________________>General support:
http://evdl.org/help/>Unsubscribe:
http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub>Usage guidelines:
http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv>Archive / Forum:
http://evdl.org/archive/>Subscription options:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev_______________________________________________General 
support: http://evdl.org/help/Unsubscribe: 
http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usubUsage guidelines:
http://evdl.org/help/index.html#convArchive / Forum:
http://evdl.org/archive/Subscription options:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 
 
 

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by Bill Dube
I think you mixed up the later description as it contradicts your
initial statement.

What I think you mean that if you setup the car to accelerate hard in
the beginning, then it does not have enough gearing to get to its
highest speed according to available HP (it runs out of steam and
reaches its RPM limit or back-EMF will limit reaching max speed due to
too low gearing. The series/parallel switching is an attempt to improve
that behavior
by running full current through both motors in series at low RPM and
once the RPMs go up and they won't pull max current any more then switch
them parallel so both receive max voltage and share the current.

It think in the last sentence you mean "increase ET".

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Bill Dube
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:37 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
Lawless

That is why I asked. ;-)

         The acceleration is not constant. This is the key point. (If it
were, the ET and MPH would work in a more intuitive manner.)

         The traction is what limits how much you can accelerate in the
beginning. The HP limits how long you can hold that maximum
acceleration. To get the lowest ET with a limited amount of HP, you
accelerate a lot in the beginning and almost not at all later on.

         If you accelerate hard in the beginning, you get to the end of
the track before you can get the car up to its top speed.
Basically, the car does not have time enough to get up to top speed.

         If you accelerate more slowly in the beginning, and do a more
constant acceleration along the length of the track, your car has more
time to get up to top speed.

         If you gear the car for a more gentle acceleration in the
beginning, that will lower the ET, but can greatly increase the MPH at
the end of the track.

Bill Dube'








At 09:18 AM 3/15/2010, you wrote:

>Funny you mention this Bill. All my higest trap speeds are with
>significantly lower ET's.  Why does this happen?  I note you higest
>trap speed does not coorespont to your top ET either.
>
>Mike
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Mar 14, 2010, at 9:12 PM, Bill Dube <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Sound like a great day at the track.
> >
> >         What were your ETs? What was your ET at 122.82 mph?
> >
> >         Did the ET and the MPH go up together, or did the ET go down

> > slightly as the MPH went up?
> >
> >         Bill Dube'
> >
> > At 07:32 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote:
> >> With the generosity of Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran
> >> over 120 mph a few times with the best being 122.82 mph. The track
> >> conditions were great with the sun out but with the night comes a
> >> cool track and street tired kids cars. Times and mph kept getting
> >> better but with the track conditions getting worse each run I
> >> reluctantly pulled the Plug.
> >>
> >> Shawn supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians
> >> who assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott
> >> installed, a beautiful pack into my truck in under an hour. We
> >> drove it down to the local Friday Fish Fry as a 1st test run and
> >> what a difference than the 30 hawkers on board. It was a
> >> rocket............I new then that on Saturday I would have my hands

> >> full!
> >>
> >> I now have a faster truck in the 1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends
> >>
> >>
> >> Dennis Berube
> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> >> scrubbed...
> >> URL:
> >>
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100314/0897879e
> /attachment.html
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> >> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> >> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
> >> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> > Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

Mike Willmon
Cor, nope it's just how Bill and I have stated. With the exact same  
gearing my quickest ETs are not the highest trap speeds, even on  
consecutive runs.  In fact Hank has 80 lbs on me, his 60ft times are  
always without fail 0.1 s slower but his trap speeds are always  
without fail 1 mph faster than mine.  As silly as it sounds the  
obvious explanaiton seems to bet the truth. Hank has longer to  
accelerate than me. Even if I shank the launch and spin a little at  
the start my trap speed will be higher than that of my quickest ET.  
It just seems counter intuitive.

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 15, 2010, at 6:23 PM, "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> I think you mixed up the later description as it contradicts your
> initial statement.
>
> What I think you mean that if you setup the car to accelerate hard in
> the beginning, then it does not have enough gearing to get to its
> highest speed according to available HP (it runs out of steam and
> reaches its RPM limit or back-EMF will limit reaching max speed due to
> too low gearing. The series/parallel switching is an attempt to  
> improve
> that behavior
> by running full current through both motors in series at low RPM and
> once the RPMs go up and they won't pull max current any more then  
> switch
> them parallel so both receive max voltage and share the current.
>
> It think in the last sentence you mean "increase ET".
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Bill Dube
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:37 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
> Lawless
>
> That is why I asked. ;-)
>
>         The acceleration is not constant. This is the key point. (If  
> it
> were, the ET and MPH would work in a more intuitive manner.)
>
>         The traction is what limits how much you can accelerate in the
> beginning. The HP limits how long you can hold that maximum
> acceleration. To get the lowest ET with a limited amount of HP, you
> accelerate a lot in the beginning and almost not at all later on.
>
>         If you accelerate hard in the beginning, you get to the end of
> the track before you can get the car up to its top speed.
> Basically, the car does not have time enough to get up to top speed.
>
>         If you accelerate more slowly in the beginning, and do a more
> constant acceleration along the length of the track, your car has more
> time to get up to top speed.
>
>         If you gear the car for a more gentle acceleration in the
> beginning, that will lower the ET, but can greatly increase the MPH at
> the end of the track.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 09:18 AM 3/15/2010, you wrote:
>> Funny you mention this Bill. All my higest trap speeds are with
>> significantly lower ET's.  Why does this happen?  I note you higest
>> trap speed does not coorespont to your top ET either.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 14, 2010, at 9:12 PM, Bill Dube <[hidden email]>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sound like a great day at the track.
>>>
>>>        What were your ETs? What was your ET at 122.82 mph?
>>>
>>>        Did the ET and the MPH go up together, or did the ET go down
>
>>> slightly as the MPH went up?
>>>
>>>        Bill Dube'
>>>
>>> At 07:32 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote:
>>>> With the generosity of Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran
>>>> over 120 mph a few times with the best being 122.82 mph. The track
>>>> conditions were great with the sun out but with the night comes a
>>>> cool track and street tired kids cars. Times and mph kept getting
>>>> better but with the track conditions getting worse each run I
>>>> reluctantly pulled the Plug.
>>>>
>>>> Shawn supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians
>>>> who assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott
>>>> installed, a beautiful pack into my truck in under an hour. We
>>>> drove it down to the local Friday Fish Fry as a 1st test run and
>>>> what a difference than the 30 hawkers on board. It was a
>>>> rocket............I new then that on Saturday I would have my hands
>
>>>> full!
>>>>
>>>> I now have a faster truck in the 1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dennis Berube
>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>>>> scrubbed...
>>>> URL:
>>>>
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/ 
>> 20100314/0897879e
>> /attachment.html
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

Cor van de Water
The only explanation I can give from a physics point of view
is when gearing (or voltage or ...) is different between
slower acceleration with higher end speed and
faster acceleration with lower trap speed.
The latter may save you so much time in the initial quick
acceleration that your ET is much lower even though the
trap speed is lower than the first setup where a gradual
constant acceleration costs you a lot of time but does
deliver the highest trap speed because you accelerate
over the entire track (due to your gearing being higher),
instead of running out of steam once your motor is spinning fast
due to the lower gearing.

I can't explain a bad start resulting into a higher speed,
it sounds like an accident more than a rule, but if someone
can enlighten me then I am happy to learn new things.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Mike Willmon
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:29 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
Lawless

Cor, nope it's just how Bill and I have stated. With the exact same
gearing my quickest ETs are not the highest trap speeds, even on
consecutive runs.  In fact Hank has 80 lbs on me, his 60ft times are
always without fail 0.1 s slower but his trap speeds are always without
fail 1 mph faster than mine.  As silly as it sounds the obvious
explanaiton seems to bet the truth. Hank has longer to accelerate than
me. Even if I shank the launch and spin a little at  
the start my trap speed will be higher than that of my quickest ET.  
It just seems counter intuitive.

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 15, 2010, at 6:23 PM, "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I think you mixed up the later description as it contradicts your
> initial statement.
>
> What I think you mean that if you setup the car to accelerate hard in
> the beginning, then it does not have enough gearing to get to its
> highest speed according to available HP (it runs out of steam and
> reaches its RPM limit or back-EMF will limit reaching max speed due to

> too low gearing. The series/parallel switching is an attempt to
> improve that behavior by running full current through both motors in
> series at low RPM and once the RPMs go up and they won't pull max
> current any more then switch them parallel so both receive max voltage

> and share the current.
>
> It think in the last sentence you mean "increase ET".
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation
> http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Bill Dube
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:37 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
> Lawless
>
> That is why I asked. ;-)
>
>         The acceleration is not constant. This is the key point. (If
> it were, the ET and MPH would work in a more intuitive manner.)
>
>         The traction is what limits how much you can accelerate in the

> beginning. The HP limits how long you can hold that maximum
> acceleration. To get the lowest ET with a limited amount of HP, you
> accelerate a lot in the beginning and almost not at all later on.
>
>         If you accelerate hard in the beginning, you get to the end of

> the track before you can get the car up to its top speed.
> Basically, the car does not have time enough to get up to top speed.
>
>         If you accelerate more slowly in the beginning, and do a more
> constant acceleration along the length of the track, your car has more

> time to get up to top speed.
>
>         If you gear the car for a more gentle acceleration in the
> beginning, that will lower the ET, but can greatly increase the MPH at

> the end of the track.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 09:18 AM 3/15/2010, you wrote:
>> Funny you mention this Bill. All my higest trap speeds are with
>> significantly lower ET's.  Why does this happen?  I note you higest
>> trap speed does not coorespont to your top ET either.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 14, 2010, at 9:12 PM, Bill Dube <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sound like a great day at the track.
>>>
>>>        What were your ETs? What was your ET at 122.82 mph?
>>>
>>>        Did the ET and the MPH go up together, or did the ET go down
>
>>> slightly as the MPH went up?
>>>
>>>        Bill Dube'
>>>
>>> At 07:32 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote:
>>>> With the generosity of Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran
>>>> over 120 mph a few times with the best being 122.82 mph. The track
>>>> conditions were great with the sun out but with the night comes a
>>>> cool track and street tired kids cars. Times and mph kept getting
>>>> better but with the track conditions getting worse each run I
>>>> reluctantly pulled the Plug.
>>>>
>>>> Shawn supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians
>>>> who assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott
>>>> installed, a beautiful pack into my truck in under an hour. We
>>>> drove it down to the local Friday Fish Fry as a 1st test run and
>>>> what a difference than the 30 hawkers on board. It was a
>>>> rocket............I new then that on Saturday I would have my hands
>
>>>> full!
>>>>
>>>> I now have a faster truck in the 1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dennis Berube
>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>>>> scrubbed...
>>>> URL:
>>>>
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/
>> 20100314/0897879e
>> /attachment.html
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

Mike Willmon
That's the thing. We haven't changed the gearing all season. And  
without fail, I can list out all mine and Hanks alternating runs. My  
ETs are higher ans his trap speeds are higher.  Only difference... 80  
lbs.  Ask Bill to on the same night of his record ET he also turned a  
much higher trap speed but with a lower ET.  I'm not sure he made any  
changes to gearing on that night. The only analogy that makes it make  
sense is that our 12.47s ET's with traps at 104 mph would conversely  
be 10 seconds with traps at 90 mph if we could instantly be doing 90  
mph at the start. But having the power to instantly be doing 90 is  
impossible, and they don't give us a running start ;-)

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 15, 2010, at 7:14 PM, "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> The only explanation I can give from a physics point of view
> is when gearing (or voltage or ...) is different between
> slower acceleration with higher end speed and
> faster acceleration with lower trap speed.
> The latter may save you so much time in the initial quick
> acceleration that your ET is much lower even though the
> trap speed is lower than the first setup where a gradual
> constant acceleration costs you a lot of time but does
> deliver the highest trap speed because you accelerate
> over the entire track (due to your gearing being higher),
> instead of running out of steam once your motor is spinning fast
> due to the lower gearing.
>
> I can't explain a bad start resulting into a higher speed,
> it sounds like an accident more than a rule, but if someone
> can enlighten me then I am happy to learn new things.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Mike Willmon
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:29 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
> Lawless
>
> Cor, nope it's just how Bill and I have stated. With the exact same
> gearing my quickest ETs are not the highest trap speeds, even on
> consecutive runs.  In fact Hank has 80 lbs on me, his 60ft times are
> always without fail 0.1 s slower but his trap speeds are always  
> without
> fail 1 mph faster than mine.  As silly as it sounds the obvious
> explanaiton seems to bet the truth. Hank has longer to accelerate than
> me. Even if I shank the launch and spin a little at
> the start my trap speed will be higher than that of my quickest ET.
> It just seems counter intuitive.
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 15, 2010, at 6:23 PM, "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> I think you mixed up the later description as it contradicts your
>> initial statement.
>>
>> What I think you mean that if you setup the car to accelerate hard in
>> the beginning, then it does not have enough gearing to get to its
>> highest speed according to available HP (it runs out of steam and
>> reaches its RPM limit or back-EMF will limit reaching max speed due  
>> to
>
>> too low gearing. The series/parallel switching is an attempt to
>> improve that behavior by running full current through both motors in
>> series at low RPM and once the RPMs go up and they won't pull max
>> current any more then switch them parallel so both receive max  
>> voltage
>
>> and share the current.
>>
>> It think in the last sentence you mean "increase ET".
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation
>> http://www.proxim.com
>> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
>> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
>> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>> Behalf Of Bill Dube
>> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:37 PM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
>> Lawless
>>
>> That is why I asked. ;-)
>>
>>        The acceleration is not constant. This is the key point. (If
>> it were, the ET and MPH would work in a more intuitive manner.)
>>
>>        The traction is what limits how much you can accelerate in the
>
>> beginning. The HP limits how long you can hold that maximum
>> acceleration. To get the lowest ET with a limited amount of HP, you
>> accelerate a lot in the beginning and almost not at all later on.
>>
>>        If you accelerate hard in the beginning, you get to the end of
>
>> the track before you can get the car up to its top speed.
>> Basically, the car does not have time enough to get up to top speed.
>>
>>        If you accelerate more slowly in the beginning, and do a more
>> constant acceleration along the length of the track, your car has  
>> more
>
>> time to get up to top speed.
>>
>>        If you gear the car for a more gentle acceleration in the
>> beginning, that will lower the ET, but can greatly increase the MPH  
>> at
>
>> the end of the track.
>>
>> Bill Dube'
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 09:18 AM 3/15/2010, you wrote:
>>> Funny you mention this Bill. All my higest trap speeds are with
>>> significantly lower ET's.  Why does this happen?  I note you higest
>>> trap speed does not coorespont to your top ET either.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 14, 2010, at 9:12 PM, Bill Dube <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sound like a great day at the track.
>>>>
>>>>       What were your ETs? What was your ET at 122.82 mph?
>>>>
>>>>       Did the ET and the MPH go up together, or did the ET go down
>>
>>>> slightly as the MPH went up?
>>>>
>>>>       Bill Dube'
>>>>
>>>> At 07:32 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote:
>>>>> With the generosity of Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran
>>>>> over 120 mph a few times with the best being 122.82 mph. The track
>>>>> conditions were great with the sun out but with the night comes a
>>>>> cool track and street tired kids cars. Times and mph kept getting
>>>>> better but with the track conditions getting worse each run I
>>>>> reluctantly pulled the Plug.
>>>>>
>>>>> Shawn supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians
>>>>> who assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott
>>>>> installed, a beautiful pack into my truck in under an hour. We
>>>>> drove it down to the local Friday Fish Fry as a 1st test run and
>>>>> what a difference than the 30 hawkers on board. It was a
>>>>> rocket............I new then that on Saturday I would have my  
>>>>> hands
>>
>>>>> full!
>>>>>
>>>>> I now have a faster truck in the 1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dennis Berube
>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>>>>> scrubbed...
>>>>> URL:
>>>>>
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/
>>> 20100314/0897879e
>>> /attachment.html
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

Cor van de Water
I think there is some serious confusion here over the qualifiers for ET.
>From what I hear you and Bill say about higher ET and lower ET it seems
that what you mean is *shorter* ET and *longer* ET (higher and lower in
*ranking*),
otherwise the reasoning in your story does not make sense, because in my
vocabulary a
lower ET means a lower numeric value, which is a quicker ET and that
is a logical consequence of a higher speed, but you are reasoning (as do
I)
that there are cases where a lower speed and a shorter ET go together.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Mike Willmon
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:30 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
Lawless

That's the thing. We haven't changed the gearing all season. And without
fail, I can list out all mine and Hanks alternating runs. My ETs are
higher ans his trap speeds are higher.  Only difference... 80 lbs.  Ask
Bill to on the same night of his record ET he also turned a much higher
trap speed but with a lower ET.  I'm not sure he made any changes to
gearing on that night. The only analogy that makes it make sense is that
our 12.47s ET's with traps at 104 mph would conversely be 10 seconds
with traps at 90 mph if we could instantly be doing 90 mph at the start.
But having the power to instantly be doing 90 is impossible, and they
don't give us a running start ;-)

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 15, 2010, at 7:14 PM, "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> The only explanation I can give from a physics point of view is when
> gearing (or voltage or ...) is different between slower acceleration
> with higher end speed and faster acceleration with lower trap speed.
> The latter may save you so much time in the initial quick acceleration

> that your ET is much lower even though the trap speed is lower than
> the first setup where a gradual constant acceleration costs you a lot
> of time but does deliver the highest trap speed because you accelerate

> over the entire track (due to your gearing being higher), instead of
> running out of steam once your motor is spinning fast due to the lower

> gearing.
>
> I can't explain a bad start resulting into a higher speed, it sounds
> like an accident more than a rule, but if someone can enlighten me
> then I am happy to learn new things.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation
> http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Mike Willmon
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:29 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
> Lawless
>
> Cor, nope it's just how Bill and I have stated. With the exact same
> gearing my quickest ETs are not the highest trap speeds, even on
> consecutive runs.  In fact Hank has 80 lbs on me, his 60ft times are
> always without fail 0.1 s slower but his trap speeds are always
> without fail 1 mph faster than mine.  As silly as it sounds the
> obvious explanaiton seems to bet the truth. Hank has longer to
> accelerate than me. Even if I shank the launch and spin a little at
> the start my trap speed will be higher than that of my quickest ET.
> It just seems counter intuitive.
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 15, 2010, at 6:23 PM, "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> I think you mixed up the later description as it contradicts your
>> initial statement.
>>
>> What I think you mean that if you setup the car to accelerate hard in

>> the beginning, then it does not have enough gearing to get to its
>> highest speed according to available HP (it runs out of steam and
>> reaches its RPM limit or back-EMF will limit reaching max speed due
>> to
>
>> too low gearing. The series/parallel switching is an attempt to
>> improve that behavior by running full current through both motors in
>> series at low RPM and once the RPMs go up and they won't pull max
>> current any more then switch them parallel so both receive max
>> voltage
>
>> and share the current.
>>
>> It think in the last sentence you mean "increase ET".
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation
>> http://www.proxim.com
>> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
>> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
>> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On

>> Behalf Of Bill Dube
>> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:37 PM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
>> Lawless
>>
>> That is why I asked. ;-)
>>
>>        The acceleration is not constant. This is the key point. (If
>> it were, the ET and MPH would work in a more intuitive manner.)
>>
>>        The traction is what limits how much you can accelerate in the
>
>> beginning. The HP limits how long you can hold that maximum
>> acceleration. To get the lowest ET with a limited amount of HP, you
>> accelerate a lot in the beginning and almost not at all later on.
>>
>>        If you accelerate hard in the beginning, you get to the end of
>
>> the track before you can get the car up to its top speed.
>> Basically, the car does not have time enough to get up to top speed.
>>
>>        If you accelerate more slowly in the beginning, and do a more
>> constant acceleration along the length of the track, your car has
>> more
>
>> time to get up to top speed.
>>
>>        If you gear the car for a more gentle acceleration in the
>> beginning, that will lower the ET, but can greatly increase the MPH
>> at
>
>> the end of the track.
>>
>> Bill Dube'
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 09:18 AM 3/15/2010, you wrote:
>>> Funny you mention this Bill. All my higest trap speeds are with
>>> significantly lower ET's.  Why does this happen?  I note you higest
>>> trap speed does not coorespont to your top ET either.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 14, 2010, at 9:12 PM, Bill Dube <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sound like a great day at the track.
>>>>
>>>>       What were your ETs? What was your ET at 122.82 mph?
>>>>
>>>>       Did the ET and the MPH go up together, or did the ET go down
>>
>>>> slightly as the MPH went up?
>>>>
>>>>       Bill Dube'
>>>>
>>>> At 07:32 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote:
>>>>> With the generosity of Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran
>>>>> over 120 mph a few times with the best being 122.82 mph. The track

>>>>> conditions were great with the sun out but with the night comes a
>>>>> cool track and street tired kids cars. Times and mph kept getting
>>>>> better but with the track conditions getting worse each run I
>>>>> reluctantly pulled the Plug.
>>>>>
>>>>> Shawn supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians
>>>>> who assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott
>>>>> installed, a beautiful pack into my truck in under an hour. We
>>>>> drove it down to the local Friday Fish Fry as a 1st test run and
>>>>> what a difference than the 30 hawkers on board. It was a
>>>>> rocket............I new then that on Saturday I would have my
>>>>> hands
>>
>>>>> full!
>>>>>
>>>>> I now have a faster truck in the 1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dennis Berube
>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>>>>> scrubbed...
>>>>> URL:
>>>>>
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/
>>> 20100314/0897879e
>>> /attachment.html
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

David Dymaxion
In reply to this post by Mike Willmon
Here's another possible difference: One driver might steer straighter than the other. If you weave a bit, you'll travel further, taking more time, but also have more distance and time to accelerate for a higher trap speed.


Possible difference two: A harder launch (possibly enabled by more weight on the rear wheels) uses more energy at the beginning, leaving less for the 2nd half of the run, and vice versa.

3rd possibility: Maybe reaching a bit, but a harder launch heats the tires more. Maybe they then have more rolling resistance for the rest of the run.

4th possibility: Good launch means higher speed sooner, wasting more power against air resistance. Maybe holding back gives more power for the far end?

It's a question I've asked before, and one of these years have been meaning to answer theoretically if I can, or via simulations: What is the optimal current ramp for best E.T. for drag racing, and for the highest top speed for land speed racing?



________________________________
From: Mike Willmon <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 8:59:30 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn  Lawless

That's the thing. We haven't changed the gearing all season. And  
without fail, I can list out all mine and Hanks alternating runs. My  
ETs are higher ans his trap speeds are higher.  Only difference... 80  
lbs. ...


     
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100315/3db8a7f5/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

Dennis Miles
In reply to this post by Cor van de Water
*Gentlemen, *
*     Back in "The Day" we would get out the slide rule and stop watch and
graph the velocity versus time. At start the velocity rises at some rate,
then the line curves either up or down as the time continues and the slope
of the line is acceleration which with a vehicle in an atmosphere and
fighting  mechanical friction is always changing, if the curve was like 270
to 350 degrees of a circle the velocity was quick to rise and
more acceleration was at the beginning and elapsed times were short for a
particular terminal velocity measured at the end of the 1/4 mile. But if the
curve looked like 180 to 100 degrees on a circle,then the velocity was slow
to rise until late in the run, and elapsed times are far longer for a
particular terminal velocity at 1/4 mile. *
*Thus for a given trap velocity, at the end, the et will be long if
most acceleration occurs late in the run and the et will be short if
most acceleration occurs early in the run. *
*I learned this all in Freshman Physics and Calculus 5 years before I
watched "Big Daddy Don G." win the trophy at Bakersfield Winter Nationals
about 1971 . (If you ever find yourself on I-75 driving thru Ocala, Florida
there is his Drag Racing Museum there.) About 80 miles North of my home.*
*Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles   (Director)     E.V.T.I. inc.
**www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM**          (New ! )
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
          EV service mechs need training!
We want them to REALLY UNDERSTAND: EV Systems, Operation and Technology*
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Cor van de Water <[hidden email]>wrote:

> I think there is some serious confusion here over the qualifiers for ET.
> >From what I hear you and Bill say about higher ET and lower ET it seems
> that what you mean is *shorter* ET and *longer* ET (higher and lower in
> *ranking*),
> otherwise the reasoning in your story does not make sense, because in my
> vocabulary a
> lower ET means a lower numeric value, which is a quicker ET and that
> is a logical consequence of a higher speed, but you are reasoning (as do
> I)
> that there are cases where a lower speed and a shorter ET go together.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Mike Willmon
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:30 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
> Lawless
>
> That's the thing. We haven't changed the gearing all season. And without
> fail, I can list out all mine and Hanks alternating runs. My ETs are
> higher ans his trap speeds are higher.  Only difference... 80 lbs.  Ask
> Bill to on the same night of his record ET he also turned a much higher
> trap speed but with a lower ET.  I'm not sure he made any changes to
> gearing on that night. The only analogy that makes it make sense is that
> our 12.47s ET's with traps at 104 mph would conversely be 10 seconds
> with traps at 90 mph if we could instantly be doing 90 mph at the start.
> But having the power to instantly be doing 90 is impossible, and they
> don't give us a running start ;-)
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 15, 2010, at 7:14 PM, "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > The only explanation I can give from a physics point of view is when
> > gearing (or voltage or ...) is different between slower acceleration
> > with higher end speed and faster acceleration with lower trap speed.
> > The latter may save you so much time in the initial quick acceleration
>
> > that your ET is much lower even though the trap speed is lower than
> > the first setup where a gradual constant acceleration costs you a lot
> > of time but does deliver the highest trap speed because you accelerate
>
> > over the entire track (due to your gearing being higher), instead of
> > running out of steam once your motor is spinning fast due to the lower
>
> > gearing.
> >
> > I can't explain a bad start resulting into a higher speed, it sounds
> > like an accident more than a rule, but if someone can enlighten me
> > then I am happy to learn new things.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation
> > http://www.proxim.com
> > Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
> > Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> > Behalf Of Mike Willmon
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:29 AM
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
> > Lawless
> >
> > Cor, nope it's just how Bill and I have stated. With the exact same
> > gearing my quickest ETs are not the highest trap speeds, even on
> > consecutive runs.  In fact Hank has 80 lbs on me, his 60ft times are
> > always without fail 0.1 s slower but his trap speeds are always
> > without fail 1 mph faster than mine.  As silly as it sounds the
> > obvious explanaiton seems to bet the truth. Hank has longer to
> > accelerate than me. Even if I shank the launch and spin a little at
> > the start my trap speed will be higher than that of my quickest ET.
> > It just seems counter intuitive.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Mar 15, 2010, at 6:23 PM, "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I think you mixed up the later description as it contradicts your
> >> initial statement.
> >>
> >> What I think you mean that if you setup the car to accelerate hard in
>
> >> the beginning, then it does not have enough gearing to get to its
> >> highest speed according to available HP (it runs out of steam and
> >> reaches its RPM limit or back-EMF will limit reaching max speed due
> >> to
> >
> >> too low gearing. The series/parallel switching is an attempt to
> >> improve that behavior by running full current through both motors in
> >> series at low RPM and once the RPMs go up and they won't pull max
> >> current any more then switch them parallel so both receive max
> >> voltage
> >
> >> and share the current.
> >>
> >> It think in the last sentence you mean "increase ET".
> >>
> >> Cor van de Water
> >> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation
> >> http://www.proxim.com
> >> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> >> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
> >> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> >> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>
> >> Behalf Of Bill Dube
> >> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:37 PM
> >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
> >> Lawless
> >>
> >> That is why I asked. ;-)
> >>
> >>        The acceleration is not constant. This is the key point. (If
> >> it were, the ET and MPH would work in a more intuitive manner.)
> >>
> >>        The traction is what limits how much you can accelerate in the
> >
> >> beginning. The HP limits how long you can hold that maximum
> >> acceleration. To get the lowest ET with a limited amount of HP, you
> >> accelerate a lot in the beginning and almost not at all later on.
> >>
> >>        If you accelerate hard in the beginning, you get to the end of
> >
> >> the track before you can get the car up to its top speed.
> >> Basically, the car does not have time enough to get up to top speed.
> >>
> >>        If you accelerate more slowly in the beginning, and do a more
> >> constant acceleration along the length of the track, your car has
> >> more
> >
> >> time to get up to top speed.
> >>
> >>        If you gear the car for a more gentle acceleration in the
> >> beginning, that will lower the ET, but can greatly increase the MPH
> >> at
> >
> >> the end of the track.
> >>
> >> Bill Dube'
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> At 09:18 AM 3/15/2010, you wrote:
> >>> Funny you mention this Bill. All my higest trap speeds are with
> >>> significantly lower ET's.  Why does this happen?  I note you higest
> >>> trap speed does not coorespont to your top ET either.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On Mar 14, 2010, at 9:12 PM, Bill Dube <[hidden email]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Sound like a great day at the track.
> >>>>
> >>>>       What were your ETs? What was your ET at 122.82 mph?
> >>>>
> >>>>       Did the ET and the MPH go up together, or did the ET go down
> >>
> >>>> slightly as the MPH went up?
> >>>>
> >>>>       Bill Dube'
> >>>>
> >>>> At 07:32 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote:
> >>>>> With the generosity of Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran
> >>>>> over 120 mph a few times with the best being 122.82 mph. The track
>
> >>>>> conditions were great with the sun out but with the night comes a
> >>>>> cool track and street tired kids cars. Times and mph kept getting
> >>>>> better but with the track conditions getting worse each run I
> >>>>> reluctantly pulled the Plug.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Shawn supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians
> >>>>> who assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott
> >>>>> installed, a beautiful pack into my truck in under an hour. We
> >>>>> drove it down to the local Friday Fish Fry as a 1st test run and
> >>>>> what a difference than the 30 hawkers on board. It was a
> >>>>> rocket............I new then that on Saturday I would have my
> >>>>> hands
> >>
> >>>>> full!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I now have a faster truck in the 1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dennis Berube
> >>>>> ----
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100316/09e09ebf/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

Mike Willmon
In reply to this post by Cor van de Water
Just going by memory here, my best ET 12.47 @ 104.5 mph, Hanks very  
next run after mine 12.50 @ 105.5 mph. It was always like this in  
about the same proportions.

Now, separate support, I have had 105 mph runs with 12.6+ ET's.  It is  
counterintuitive and will only be solved in my mind with some serious  
math,  which someday I intend to do, right after I get the new  
batteries in the car ;-)

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 15, 2010, at 8:35 PM, "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> I think there is some serious confusion here over the qualifiers for  
> ET.
>> From what I hear you and Bill say about higher ET and lower ET it  
>> seems
> that what you mean is *shorter* ET and *longer* ET (higher and lower  
> in
> *ranking*),
> otherwise the reasoning in your story does not make sense, because  
> in my
> vocabulary a
> lower ET means a lower numeric value, which is a quicker ET and that
> is a logical consequence of a higher speed, but you are reasoning  
> (as do
> I)
> that there are cases where a lower speed and a shorter ET go together.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Mike Willmon
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:30 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
> Lawless
>
> That's the thing. We haven't changed the gearing all season. And  
> without
> fail, I can list out all mine and Hanks alternating runs. My ETs are
> higher ans his trap speeds are higher.  Only difference... 80 lbs.  
> Ask
> Bill to on the same night of his record ET he also turned a much  
> higher
> trap speed but with a lower ET.  I'm not sure he made any changes to
> gearing on that night. The only analogy that makes it make sense is  
> that
> our 12.47s ET's with traps at 104 mph would conversely be 10 seconds
> with traps at 90 mph if we could instantly be doing 90 mph at the  
> start.
> But having the power to instantly be doing 90 is impossible, and they
> don't give us a running start ;-)
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 15, 2010, at 7:14 PM, "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> The only explanation I can give from a physics point of view is when
>> gearing (or voltage or ...) is different between slower acceleration
>> with higher end speed and faster acceleration with lower trap speed.
>> The latter may save you so much time in the initial quick  
>> acceleration
>
>> that your ET is much lower even though the trap speed is lower than
>> the first setup where a gradual constant acceleration costs you a lot
>> of time but does deliver the highest trap speed because you  
>> accelerate
>
>> over the entire track (due to your gearing being higher), instead of
>> running out of steam once your motor is spinning fast due to the  
>> lower
>
>> gearing.
>>
>> I can't explain a bad start resulting into a higher speed, it sounds
>> like an accident more than a rule, but if someone can enlighten me
>> then I am happy to learn new things.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation
>> http://www.proxim.com
>> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
>> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
>> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Willmon
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:29 AM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
>> Lawless
>>
>> Cor, nope it's just how Bill and I have stated. With the exact same
>> gearing my quickest ETs are not the highest trap speeds, even on
>> consecutive runs.  In fact Hank has 80 lbs on me, his 60ft times are
>> always without fail 0.1 s slower but his trap speeds are always
>> without fail 1 mph faster than mine.  As silly as it sounds the
>> obvious explanaiton seems to bet the truth. Hank has longer to
>> accelerate than me. Even if I shank the launch and spin a little at
>> the start my trap speed will be higher than that of my quickest ET.
>> It just seems counter intuitive.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 15, 2010, at 6:23 PM, "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think you mixed up the later description as it contradicts your
>>> initial statement.
>>>
>>> What I think you mean that if you setup the car to accelerate hard  
>>> in
>
>>> the beginning, then it does not have enough gearing to get to its
>>> highest speed according to available HP (it runs out of steam and
>>> reaches its RPM limit or back-EMF will limit reaching max speed due
>>> to
>>
>>> too low gearing. The series/parallel switching is an attempt to
>>> improve that behavior by running full current through both motors in
>>> series at low RPM and once the RPMs go up and they won't pull max
>>> current any more then switch them parallel so both receive max
>>> voltage
>>
>>> and share the current.
>>>
>>> It think in the last sentence you mean "increase ET".
>>>
>>> Cor van de Water
>>> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation
>>> http://www.proxim.com
>>> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>>> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
>>> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
>>> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]  
>>> On
>
>>> Behalf Of Bill Dube
>>> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:37 PM
>>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
>>> Lawless
>>>
>>> That is why I asked. ;-)
>>>
>>>       The acceleration is not constant. This is the key point. (If
>>> it were, the ET and MPH would work in a more intuitive manner.)
>>>
>>>       The traction is what limits how much you can accelerate in the
>>
>>> beginning. The HP limits how long you can hold that maximum
>>> acceleration. To get the lowest ET with a limited amount of HP, you
>>> accelerate a lot in the beginning and almost not at all later on.
>>>
>>>       If you accelerate hard in the beginning, you get to the end of
>>
>>> the track before you can get the car up to its top speed.
>>> Basically, the car does not have time enough to get up to top speed.
>>>
>>>       If you accelerate more slowly in the beginning, and do a more
>>> constant acceleration along the length of the track, your car has
>>> more
>>
>>> time to get up to top speed.
>>>
>>>       If you gear the car for a more gentle acceleration in the
>>> beginning, that will lower the ET, but can greatly increase the MPH
>>> at
>>
>>> the end of the track.
>>>
>>> Bill Dube'
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 09:18 AM 3/15/2010, you wrote:
>>>> Funny you mention this Bill. All my higest trap speeds are with
>>>> significantly lower ET's.  Why does this happen?  I note you higest
>>>> trap speed does not coorespont to your top ET either.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 14, 2010, at 9:12 PM, Bill Dube <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sound like a great day at the track.
>>>>>
>>>>>      What were your ETs? What was your ET at 122.82 mph?
>>>>>
>>>>>      Did the ET and the MPH go up together, or did the ET go down
>>>
>>>>> slightly as the MPH went up?
>>>>>
>>>>>      Bill Dube'
>>>>>
>>>>> At 07:32 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote:
>>>>>> With the generosity of Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran
>>>>>> over 120 mph a few times with the best being 122.82 mph. The  
>>>>>> track
>
>>>>>> conditions were great with the sun out but with the night comes a
>>>>>> cool track and street tired kids cars. Times and mph kept getting
>>>>>> better but with the track conditions getting worse each run I
>>>>>> reluctantly pulled the Plug.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Shawn supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians
>>>>>> who assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott
>>>>>> installed, a beautiful pack into my truck in under an hour. We
>>>>>> drove it down to the local Friday Fish Fry as a 1st test run and
>>>>>> what a difference than the 30 hawkers on board. It was a
>>>>>> rocket............I new then that on Saturday I would have my
>>>>>> hands
>>>
>>>>>> full!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I now have a faster truck in the 1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dennis Berube
>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>>>>>> scrubbed...
>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>
>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/
>>>> 20100314/0897879e
>>>> /attachment.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>>>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

Cor van de Water
Hi Mike,

With the series-parallel switching somewhere in there, it is
hard to tell what causes which change. For example the extra
weight of Hank could mean the difference between a short breakout
and keeping the tires stuck to the track during the switch, so
even though he is slower to get up to speed, he has a slight
advantage of better traction (a shorter interruption of power
while the Zilla switches and re-applies power and until the
tires have traction again) and finishes at higher speed as result...

Or maybe the series/parallel switching point is not optimal set
for your runs?

Or maybe he is just a hair better than you at keeping the motor
power just under the point where the tires would lose traction
(max traction and acceleration point) over the whole run, so he
compensates for the higher weight and lower initial accel by
pushing the Pinto just a little bit harder over the whole run...

Only overlaying the Amps and speed (RPM) data from the Zilla
for both your runs will help tell what is exactly happening.

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Mike Willmon
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:22 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
Lawless

Just going by memory here, my best ET 12.47 @ 104.5 mph, Hanks very next
run after mine 12.50 @ 105.5 mph. It was always like this in about the
same proportions.

Now, separate support, I have had 105 mph runs with 12.6+ ET's.  It is
counterintuitive and will only be solved in my mind with some serious
math,  which someday I intend to do, right after I get the new batteries
in the car ;-)

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 15, 2010, at 8:35 PM, "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I think there is some serious confusion here over the qualifiers for
> ET.
>> From what I hear you and Bill say about higher ET and lower ET it
>> seems
> that what you mean is *shorter* ET and *longer* ET (higher and lower
> in *ranking*), otherwise the reasoning in your story does not make
> sense, because in my vocabulary a lower ET means a lower numeric
> value, which is a quicker ET and that is a logical consequence of a
> higher speed, but you are reasoning (as do
> I)
> that there are cases where a lower speed and a shorter ET go together.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation
> http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Mike Willmon
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:30 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
> Lawless
>
> That's the thing. We haven't changed the gearing all season. And
> without fail, I can list out all mine and Hanks alternating runs. My
> ETs are
> higher ans his trap speeds are higher.  Only difference... 80 lbs.  
> Ask
> Bill to on the same night of his record ET he also turned a much
> higher trap speed but with a lower ET.  I'm not sure he made any
> changes to gearing on that night. The only analogy that makes it make
> sense is that our 12.47s ET's with traps at 104 mph would conversely
> be 10 seconds with traps at 90 mph if we could instantly be doing 90
> mph at the start.
> But having the power to instantly be doing 90 is impossible, and they
> don't give us a running start ;-)
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 15, 2010, at 7:14 PM, "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> The only explanation I can give from a physics point of view is when
>> gearing (or voltage or ...) is different between slower acceleration
>> with higher end speed and faster acceleration with lower trap speed.
>> The latter may save you so much time in the initial quick
>> acceleration
>
>> that your ET is much lower even though the trap speed is lower than
>> the first setup where a gradual constant acceleration costs you a lot

>> of time but does deliver the highest trap speed because you
>> accelerate
>
>> over the entire track (due to your gearing being higher), instead of
>> running out of steam once your motor is spinning fast due to the
>> lower
>
>> gearing.
>>
>> I can't explain a bad start resulting into a higher speed, it sounds
>> like an accident more than a rule, but if someone can enlighten me
>> then I am happy to learn new things.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation
>> http://www.proxim.com
>> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
>> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
>> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On

>> Behalf Of Mike Willmon
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:29 AM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
>> Lawless
>>
>> Cor, nope it's just how Bill and I have stated. With the exact same
>> gearing my quickest ETs are not the highest trap speeds, even on
>> consecutive runs.  In fact Hank has 80 lbs on me, his 60ft times are
>> always without fail 0.1 s slower but his trap speeds are always
>> without fail 1 mph faster than mine.  As silly as it sounds the
>> obvious explanaiton seems to bet the truth. Hank has longer to
>> accelerate than me. Even if I shank the launch and spin a little at
>> the start my trap speed will be higher than that of my quickest ET.
>> It just seems counter intuitive.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 15, 2010, at 6:23 PM, "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think you mixed up the later description as it contradicts your
>>> initial statement.
>>>
>>> What I think you mean that if you setup the car to accelerate hard
>>> in
>
>>> the beginning, then it does not have enough gearing to get to its
>>> highest speed according to available HP (it runs out of steam and
>>> reaches its RPM limit or back-EMF will limit reaching max speed due
>>> to
>>
>>> too low gearing. The series/parallel switching is an attempt to
>>> improve that behavior by running full current through both motors in

>>> series at low RPM and once the RPMs go up and they won't pull max
>>> current any more then switch them parallel so both receive max
>>> voltage
>>
>>> and share the current.
>>>
>>> It think in the last sentence you mean "increase ET".
>>>
>>> Cor van de Water
>>> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation

>>> http://www.proxim.com
>>> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>>> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
>>> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
>>> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>> On
>
>>> Behalf Of Bill Dube
>>> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:37 PM
>>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn
>>> Lawless
>>>
>>> That is why I asked. ;-)
>>>
>>>       The acceleration is not constant. This is the key point. (If
>>> it were, the ET and MPH would work in a more intuitive manner.)
>>>
>>>       The traction is what limits how much you can accelerate in the
>>
>>> beginning. The HP limits how long you can hold that maximum
>>> acceleration. To get the lowest ET with a limited amount of HP, you
>>> accelerate a lot in the beginning and almost not at all later on.
>>>
>>>       If you accelerate hard in the beginning, you get to the end of
>>
>>> the track before you can get the car up to its top speed.
>>> Basically, the car does not have time enough to get up to top speed.
>>>
>>>       If you accelerate more slowly in the beginning, and do a more
>>> constant acceleration along the length of the track, your car has
>>> more
>>
>>> time to get up to top speed.
>>>
>>>       If you gear the car for a more gentle acceleration in the
>>> beginning, that will lower the ET, but can greatly increase the MPH
>>> at
>>
>>> the end of the track.
>>>
>>> Bill Dube'
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 09:18 AM 3/15/2010, you wrote:
>>>> Funny you mention this Bill. All my higest trap speeds are with
>>>> significantly lower ET's.  Why does this happen?  I note you higest

>>>> trap speed does not coorespont to your top ET either.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 14, 2010, at 9:12 PM, Bill Dube <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sound like a great day at the track.
>>>>>
>>>>>      What were your ETs? What was your ET at 122.82 mph?
>>>>>
>>>>>      Did the ET and the MPH go up together, or did the ET go down
>>>
>>>>> slightly as the MPH went up?
>>>>>
>>>>>      Bill Dube'
>>>>>
>>>>> At 07:32 PM 3/14/2010, you wrote:
>>>>>> With the generosity of Shawn Lawless my S 10 the Smoke Screen ran

>>>>>> over 120 mph a few times with the best being 122.82 mph. The
>>>>>> track
>
>>>>>> conditions were great with the sun out but with the night comes a

>>>>>> cool track and street tired kids cars. Times and mph kept getting

>>>>>> better but with the track conditions getting worse each run I
>>>>>> reluctantly pulled the Plug.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Shawn supplied a powerful  pack of 1540 cells and the Technicians

>>>>>> who assembled it from....HI Tech Systems. Derek and Scott
>>>>>> installed, a beautiful pack into my truck in under an hour. We
>>>>>> drove it down to the local Friday Fish Fry as a 1st test run and
>>>>>> what a difference than the 30 hawkers on board. It was a
>>>>>> rocket............I new then that on Saturday I would have my
>>>>>> hands
>>>
>>>>>> full!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I now have a faster truck in the 1/4 mile and 3 great EV Friends
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dennis Berube
>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>>>>>> scrubbed...
>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>
>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/
>>>> 20100314/0897879e
>>>> /attachment.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>>>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless

KilowattA798
In reply to this post by KilowattA798
In a message dated 3/15/2010 9:59:36 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:

> Subj: Re: [EVDL] S10 runs 122.82 mph in the 1/4 mile with Shawn Lawless
> Date:3/15/2010 9:59:36 PM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[hidden email]
> Reply-to:[hidden email]
> To:[hidden email]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> Bill,
>
> One other thing I forgot to mention. I did not ask Derek or Dennis what
> the exact controller settings were but I'm guessing that they had the
> 2K cranked to the max. If I'm correct than I believe this is the first
> time anyone has ever hit the Zilla "wall".  I know that in my
> experience I have never had the Zilla EHV 2K set at max motor voltage
> and max motor current with a 363 volt pack without doing nasty things
> to my motors.  The 9" ADC's I had would take the 2K current but would
> start getting grumpy at about 175-180 volts.  My little 7" GE's are
> very happy at well over 200 volts but they turn any current over about
> 1600 straight into heat. I believe the 1540 A123 pack has the muscle to
> feed 3000 motor amps off the line. Given your A123 experience, do you
> concur?  I'm wondering if Otmar can put together the logic and
> connection to parallel two of my 2K's to feed Dennis' monster motor.  
> It would be nice to know how much input power it can handle.
> Shawn

Most of the day the Ma were set at 2000. I set the Ma down to 1800 for the
last pass with MV set at 300+. Yes after watching this motor on Sat.not heat
up I would not be afraid to through 3000 amps at it.

Dennis Berube
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100316/0fb11436/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

12