Shaft tolerance for taperlock hub

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Shaft tolerance for taperlock hub

Steve Powers
My motor seems to have a metric shaft (i.e. 26 mm), which is not 1".  It's
close though.  The actual shaft measures 1.020".  Does anyone know if I can
use a 1" taperlock hub on a shaft that is 0.020" oversized?  I cannot find
a 26 mm taperlock anywhere, so I assume (I am reaching here) that people
use the 1" one for their 26 mm shaft.  Turning it down to 1.000" is really
not an option for me.

Thanks,

Steve
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Re: Shaft tolerance for taperlock hub

Bill Dube
You can bore a taperlock collar on a lathe. Measure the "relaxed" hub
ID and calculate how much you need to remove from the ID. Put the
collar into the hub and tighten it up. Measure the collar again.
Subtract off the amount you need to machine away to calculate the
"tight" ID. Chuck the hub up in the lathe and bore to the new tight ID.

The collars only have like 0.005" oversize, maybe 0.010" if you cram
something into the slot. You are going to have to machine the shaft
OD or the collar ID.

Bill D.




At 09:36 AM 12/28/2011, you wrote:

>My motor seems to have a metric shaft (i.e. 26 mm), which is not 1".  It's
>close though.  The actual shaft measures 1.020".  Does anyone know if I can
>use a 1" taperlock hub on a shaft that is 0.020" oversized?  I cannot find
>a 26 mm taperlock anywhere, so I assume (I am reaching here) that people
>use the 1" one for their 26 mm shaft.  Turning it down to 1.000" is really
>not an option for me.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Steve
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Re: Shaft tolerance for taperlock hub

Cruisin
In reply to this post by Steve Powers
Steve, dont use a taperlock hub. Bad decision as most production hub manufacturers on the market no longer offer taperlock for EV conversion. Ask CANEV. They can be a real problem over time and have no benefit over a collar hub.
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Re: Shaft tolerance for taperlock hub

Roland Wiench
In reply to this post by Steve Powers
Hello Steve,

The taper lock bushing which I have in stock for 1.25 inch shaft reads 1.23
inch relax and I can spread it with the calipers to 1.27 inch.  This is a
Dodge Power Transmission taper lock bushing that reads 0.02 inch under and
over.

The taper lock motor coupler from for my GE-11 motor which has a 1.3125 inch
shaft reads 1.3080 inch relax and I can spread it with calipers to 1.3150
inch. This one is made by Electro Auto which is reads 0.0045 under and
0.0025 over.

These taper lock bushings are steel type, not cast type which could break if
you close them too much.

Here is a tech line for the commercial taper locks specifications:

1-800-333-1650

Roland




----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Powers" <[hidden email]>
To: "ev" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 9:36 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Shaft tolerance for taperlock hub


> My motor seems to have a metric shaft (i.e. 26 mm), which is not 1".  It's
> close though.  The actual shaft measures 1.020".  Does anyone know if I
> can
> use a 1" taperlock hub on a shaft that is 0.020" oversized?  I cannot find
> a 26 mm taperlock anywhere, so I assume (I am reaching here) that people
> use the 1" one for their 26 mm shaft.  Turning it down to 1.000" is really
> not an option for me.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
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Re: Shaft tolerance for taperlock hub

martinwinlow
In reply to this post by Steve Powers
20 thou is a proper interference fit - too much.  The easier option will be to bore out the 1 inch taper to suit.  I'm surprised your shaft is 26mm... are you sure it's 26mm? MW

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 28, 2011, at 4:36 PM, Steve Powers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My motor seems to have a metric shaft (i.e. 26 mm), which is not 1".  It's
> close though.  The actual shaft measures 1.020".  Does anyone know if I can
> use a 1" taperlock hub on a shaft that is 0.020" oversized?  I cannot find
> a 26 mm taperlock anywhere, so I assume (I am reaching here) that people
> use the 1" one for their 26 mm shaft.  Turning it down to 1.000" is really
> not an option for me.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
> -------------- next part --------------
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Re: Shaft tolerance for taperlock hub

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Cruisin
On 12/28/2011 11:34 AM, Cruisin wrote:
> Steve, dont use a taperlock hub. Bad decision as most production hub
> manufacturers on the market no longer offer taperlock for EV conversion. Ask
> CANEV. They can be a real problem over time and have no benefit over a
> collar hub.

On the other hand, I've had excellent results with taperlocks. Once
they're on right, they *stay* right, even with heavy flywheels.

I've had worse results with ordinary keyed hubs. They have tended to
wobble and cause balance problems, and tend to loosen over time,
requiring that I go back in and fix it again.

--
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls
and looks like work. -- Thomas A. Edison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Brake wear and EVs

Bob Bath
I just replaced the brakes on CivicWithACord.  Total mileage (brakes last done in 1999) was 55K miles.  Now, by today's standards, that's not too spectacular, but in fairness, it's been mostly city driving, which will definitely take a toll on clutches and brakes.  
33K was as a gas-burner (ie pre-conversion)
22K of it was as all-electric, of course carting around 1200 lbs. of batteries.

Now I can't wait to see how long the newer pads as all-EV miles will last with city driving!  

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Re: Shaft tolerance for taperlock hub

Bill Dube
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
I agree with Lee. I've had zero trouble with taperlock hubs. Zero. I
have run them at insane torque and insane speeds on race machines for years.

Manufacturers don't run them because they cost significantly more
than a plain hub.

Bill D.

Lee Hart wrote:

>On 12/28/2011 11:34 AM, Cruisin wrote:
> > Steve, dont use a taperlock hub. Bad decision as most production hub
> > manufacturers on the market no longer offer taperlock for EV
> conversion. Ask
> > CANEV. They can be a real problem over time and have no benefit over a
> > collar hub.
>
>On the other hand, I've had excellent results with taperlocks. Once
>they're on right, they *stay* right, even with heavy flywheels.
>
>I've had worse results with ordinary keyed hubs. They have tended to
>wobble and cause balance problems, and tend to loosen over time,
>requiring that I go back in and fix it again.
>
>--
>Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls
>and looks like work. -- Thomas A. Edison
>--
>Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net
>
>_______________________________________________
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Re: Shaft tolerance for taperlock hub

Mike Brown-15
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
At 08:45 AM 12/30/2011, you wrote:
>On 12/28/2011 11:34 AM, Cruisin wrote:
> > Steve, dont use a taperlock hub. Bad decision as most production hub
> > manufacturers on the market no longer offer taperlock for EV
> conversion. Ask
> > CANEV. They can be a real problem over time and have no benefit over a
> > collar hub.

Who are these "most production hub manufacturers"?  I've been doing
it for conversions longer than any of them - 22 yrs., since I bought
the adaptor business from John Wasylina.  In that time,  I have sold
thousands of these, and I have well over a hundred different
patterns,.  I have NEVER had one fail.  I have a car sitting in my
yard right now with a taperlock that has been in service 20 years.  I
have, however, sold quite a few hubs to people whose set screw hubs
from other suppliers had failed.

I have also noticed that no one else builds taperlocks that look like
mine, so maybe THEIR kind has problems.

The taperlock hub is the standard in industrial high rpm, high torque
applications.


Mike Brown
Electro Automotive, POB 1113, Felton, CA  95018-1113 Phone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com  email [hidden email]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979


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Re: Shaft tolerance for taperlock hub

Randy
Hi Mike. Nice to here your still out there!
You have us beat by a year as we have been building adapters for only 21
years and are well behind your thousands with only about 1400 in service.
We always used a mix of bored and taper lock hubs depending on the
vehicle. For the first 10 years we were almost exclusively taper lock
hubs but then the customer base sort of changed from the "back yard
mechanics" to a less mechanical customer and we started to have problems
with the taper locks when the customer did not pull up the bolts evenly
and would end up with a bit of a vibration. We switch to the bored hubs
and that problem went away.
I think both designs work very well as long as they are properly
installed, we just found less problems with the bored hubs. These are
not to be confused with the old style set screw hubs that used the
setscrews to hold the hub in the correct location on the shaft. Those
were a real problem and are what gave that style hub a bad name.
Out of the 93 adapters currently in stock only 3 are still taper lock.

Best of the new year to you and the crew at EA!

BFN
Randy
Who are these "most production hub manufacturers"? I've been doing it
for conversions longer than any of them - 22 yrs., since I bought the
adapter business from John Wasylina. In that time, I have sold thousands
of these, and I have well over a hundred different patterns,. I have
NEVER had one fail. I have a car sitting in my yard right now with a
taperlock that has been in service 20 years. I have, however, sold quite
a few hubs to people whose set screw hubs from other suppliers had
failed. I have also noticed that no one else builds taperlocks that look
like mine, so maybe THEIR kind has problems. The taperlock hub is the
standard in industrial high rpm, high torque applications. Mike Brown
Electro Automotive, POB 1113, Felton, CA 95018-1113 Phone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com email [hidden email] Electric Car
Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
_______________________________________________ | Moratorium on drag
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--
Randy Holmquist

Canadian Electric Vehicles Ltd

250-954-2230

http://www.canev.com/

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Re: Brake wear and EVs

corbin dunn
In reply to this post by Bob Bath
I got 9000 miles on the front pads of my '69 VW bug's disc brakes. That's horrible mileage!

corbin

On Dec 30, 2011, at 9:26 AM, Bob Bath wrote:

> I just replaced the brakes on CivicWithACord.  Total mileage (brakes last done in 1999) was 55K miles.  Now, by today's standards, that's not too spectacular, but in fairness, it's been mostly city driving, which will definitely take a toll on clutches and brakes.  
> 33K was as a gas-burner (ie pre-conversion)
> 22K of it was as all-electric, of course carting around 1200 lbs. of batteries.
>
> Now I can't wait to see how long the newer pads as all-EV miles will last with city driving!  
>
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Re: Brake wear and EVs

Peter C. Thompson-2
Hi Corbin,

That's because:

a) you have a DC motor,
b) you drive down hwy 17 during rush hour,
c) you have increased the weight of the car,
d) and you live in/near Santa Cruz (where I wish I lived).

Oh, you can discount point d)  :)

Cheers,
     Peter

On 1/4/12 2:55 PM, corbin dunn wrote:

> I got 9000 miles on the front pads of my '69 VW bug's disc brakes. That's horrible mileage!
>
> corbin
>
> On Dec 30, 2011, at 9:26 AM, Bob Bath wrote:
>
>> I just replaced the brakes on CivicWithACord.  Total mileage (brakes last done in 1999) was 55K miles.  Now, by today's standards, that's not too spectacular, but in fairness, it's been mostly city driving, which will definitely take a toll on clutches and brakes.
>> 33K was as a gas-burner (ie pre-conversion)
>> 22K of it was as all-electric, of course carting around 1200 lbs. of batteries.
>>
>> Now I can't wait to see how long the newer pads as all-EV miles will last with city driving!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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Re: Brake wear and EVs

Voltswagon
In reply to this post by corbin dunn
corbin dunn wrote
I got 9000 miles on the front pads of my '69 VW bug's disc brakes. That's horrible mileage!

corbin
Corbin,

Do yours have a spring return, or are they 'self adjusting' aka always dragging?
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Re: Brake wear and EVs

Lee Hart
corbin dunn wrote
>> I got 9000 miles on the front pads of my '69 VW bug's disc brakes. That's
>> horrible mileage!

Some factors may be:

  - heavier car (so brakes are used more)
  - batteries up front (more weight on front brakes)
  - no engine braking (controller without regen)
  - misadjusted brakes (dragging)
  - live in a hilly region (where brakes get used a lot more)
  - driving style (some people race to stoplight, then stop fast)
  - cheap junky brake pads
  - rough, worn rotors
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong reasons.
        -- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: Brake wear and EVs

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by corbin dunn
The reason that several EVs claim (or show) a much
higher mileage on the vehicle before replacing the
brake pads (or even retiring the vehicle with the
OEM pads still in working order) is not because they
get more miles on the *applied* brakes, but due to the
fact that they need to apply the brakes a lot less
due to effective regen braking, so the braking miles
have more non-braking miles between them.
Still, there is a lot of variation due to terrain and
driving style differences.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of corbin dunn
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 2:56 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Brake wear and EVs

I got 9000 miles on the front pads of my '69 VW bug's disc brakes.
That's horrible mileage!

corbin

On Dec 30, 2011, at 9:26 AM, Bob Bath wrote:

> I just replaced the brakes on CivicWithACord.  Total mileage (brakes
last done in 1999) was 55K miles.  Now, by today's standards, that's not
too spectacular, but in fairness, it's been mostly city driving, which
will definitely take a toll on clutches and brakes.  
> 33K was as a gas-burner (ie pre-conversion) 22K of it was as
> all-electric, of course carting around 1200 lbs. of batteries.
>
> Now I can't wait to see how long the newer pads as all-EV miles will
last with city driving!  

>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Brake wear and EVs

Evan Tuer
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Cor van de Water <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The reason that several EVs claim (or show) a much
> higher mileage on the vehicle before replacing the
> brake pads (or even retiring the vehicle with the
> OEM pads still in working order) is not because they
> get more miles on the *applied* brakes, but due to the
> fact that they need to apply the brakes a lot less
> due to effective regen braking, so the braking miles
> have more non-braking miles between them.

I did that - 83k miles on the vehicle.  It had the wheel-bearings
changed but not the pads.  I believe I also had the discs ground at
least once as they get rusty.

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Re: Brake wear and EVs

corbin dunn
In reply to this post by Voltswagon
I believe they are self-adjusting breaks -- but as Peter noted, the main reason I get horrible mileage is that I coast ~6 miles down a rather steep hill every day. :)

corbin

On Jan 4, 2012, at 10:08 PM, Voltswagon wrote:

>
> corbin dunn wrote
>>
>> I got 9000 miles on the front pads of my '69 VW bug's disc brakes. That's
>> horrible mileage!
>>
>> corbin
>
> Corbin,
>
> Do yours have a spring return, or are they 'self adjusting' aka always
> dragging?
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Shaft-tolerance-for-taperlock-hub-tp4240367p4264402.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: Brake wear and EVs

Mark Grasser
So what about taking a 600 amp IGBT with a PWM controlling it connected to a
pot on the brake pedal and putting the IGBT across the motor terminals. The
further you press on the pedal, right at the top prior o the pad engagement,
the more PWM you get, to a point. Matter of fact you could give a little bit
of PWM s soon as your foot is off the accelerator.

Does this work or do we have to introduce some DC voltage into the motor
circuit for it to work?


Sincerely,
Mark Grasser
 


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of corbin dunn
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 10:55 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Brake wear and EVs

I believe they are self-adjusting breaks -- but as Peter noted, the main
reason I get horrible mileage is that I coast ~6 miles down a rather steep
hill every day. :)

corbin

On Jan 4, 2012, at 10:08 PM, Voltswagon wrote:

>
> corbin dunn wrote
>>
>> I got 9000 miles on the front pads of my '69 VW bug's disc brakes. That's
>> horrible mileage!
>>
>> corbin
>
> Corbin,
>
> Do yours have a spring return, or are they 'self adjusting' aka always
> dragging?
>
> --
> View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Shaft-tolerance
-for-taperlock-hub-tp4240367p4264402.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
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Re: Brake wear and EVs

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by corbin dunn
On 1/5/2012 9:54 AM, corbin dunn wrote:
> I believe they are self-adjusting breaks -- but as Peter noted, the
> main reason I get horrible mileage is that I coast ~6 miles down a
> rather steep hill every day. :)

Any chance you can add regenerative braking? What kind of motor and
controller do you have? If they don't provide regen as an option, you
may be able to add a separate generator expressly for regen.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!    -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: Brake wear and EVs

David Dymaxion
In reply to this post by corbin dunn
On the race track, my gasser would chew through over half the front brake pads, and the brake disks were heavily scored. When I put on improved brake air ducts and cooled the brakes between sessions, the pads wore only 1/4 of the way and the disks were smooth. My theory is hot brakes lead to scored disks, which rapidly wears the pads. I wrote this up on my web page, http://explodingdinosaurs.com/brakeducts420bucks/.


If you are having to ride the brakes for 6 miles of downhill (that's a scary thought, by the way) you might be overheating your brakes, and it could be air ducts would lead to significantly longer brake life (and improve safety).

A good racing brake fluid is much more resistant to heat, too.



________________________________
 From: corbin dunn <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2012 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Brake wear and EVs
 
I believe they are self-adjusting breaks -- but as Peter noted, the main reason I get horrible mileage is that I coast ~6 miles down a rather steep hill every day. :)

corbin

On Jan 4, 2012, at 10:08 PM, Voltswagon wrote:

>
> corbin dunn wrote
>>
>> I got 9000 miles on the front pads of my '69 VW bug's disc brakes. That's
>> horrible mileage!
>>
>> corbin
>
> Corbin,
>
> Do yours have a spring return, or are they 'self adjusting' aka always
> dragging?
>
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