Small first time EV project suggestions.

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Small first time EV project suggestions.

Owens, Jerry
I have been lurking and reading posts on the mailing lists for a while
and would like to build a small project with my two sons. I am not ready
to convert my car just yet, but I was thinking of converting a bicycle
to a hybrid electric/peddled machine. My question for the group is what
do I need to build a project on the cheep side. How big of a motor is
needed, how much battery power, and what type of controller. It would be
great if the bike would also carry my 200lb self the three miles each
way to and from work without needing a recharge. Any advice would be
appreciated.

Thanks,

Jerry

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Re: Small first time EV project suggestions.

Cor van de Water
Jerry,

There are many EV bikes in the EV Album,
you can check their specs.
Also EV conversion kits are available for bikes.

Usually a 300W motor, controller, throttle and
a box for 2 12V 12Ah UPS style batteries for a
24V system. They are spec'ed to move a bike
up to 20 miles, though it is healty and good for range
to pedal along with it.

If you install the motor sprocket onto the spokes
of the rear wheel, then the pedaling is not affected
and you can choose to ride with or without moving
your feet.

See some pics of my E-bike on the EV Album:
http://evalbum.com/720

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225    VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675    eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Owens, Jerry
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 12:55 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [EVDL] Small first time EV project suggestions.

I have been lurking and reading posts on the mailing lists for a while and would like to build a small project with my two sons. I am not ready to convert my car just yet, but I was thinking of converting a bicycle to a hybrid electric/peddled machine. My question for the group is what do I need to build a project on the cheep side. How big of a motor is needed, how much battery power, and what type of controller. It would be great if the bike would also carry my 200lb self the three miles each way to and from work without needing a recharge. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jerry

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Re: Small first time EV project suggestions.

Joseph T.
You can get parts from online vendors. Just google electric scooter
parts and you'll get all sorts of stuff. However, believe it or not,
it is cheaper to buy and electric scooter/bicycle and then just take
the parts out and put them on whatever you want. Although it is
redundant...

I am making my bike electric from some parts on an electric scooter.
You have to have a plan first though to make sure that you know/can
mount the parts on and that you know how you will transfer the
electric motor's power.

300 watts or more is completely adequate for an electric bike. But of
coruse, more is always better!

On 8/13/07, Cor van de Water <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jerry,
>
> There are many EV bikes in the EV Album,
> you can check their specs.
> Also EV conversion kits are available for bikes.
>
> Usually a 300W motor, controller, throttle and
> a box for 2 12V 12Ah UPS style batteries for a
> 24V system. They are spec'ed to move a bike
> up to 20 miles, though it is healty and good for range
> to pedal along with it.
>
> If you install the motor sprocket onto the spokes
> of the rear wheel, then the pedaling is not affected
> and you can choose to ride with or without moving
> your feet.
>
> See some pics of my E-bike on the EV Album:
> http://evalbum.com/720
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225    VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675    eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Owens, Jerry
> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 12:55 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [EVDL] Small first time EV project suggestions.
>
> I have been lurking and reading posts on the mailing lists for a while and would like to build a small project with my two sons. I am not ready to convert my car just yet, but I was thinking of converting a bicycle to a hybrid electric/peddled machine. My question for the group is what do I need to build a project on the cheep side. How big of a motor is needed, how much battery power, and what type of controller. It would be great if the bike would also carry my 200lb self the three miles each way to and from work without needing a recharge. Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jerry
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Re: Small first time EV project suggestions.

Dan Frederiksen-2
In reply to this post by Owens, Jerry
I haven't done any but the most elegant way I've seen is a front wheel
with built in hub motor. that way very little has to be modified. I
don't know who makes them but google for electric bicycle hub motor
might find it.
for battery, if it's around 30-36v, I think the idea of using dewalt 36v
packs is very elegant. it's long lived high power pack and can be gotten
for around 100$ on ebay new. they weigh less than lead acid for the
energy they hold and a single pack might well get you to work and back.
rough guess is 8km range. if not just plug in a spare : ) to recharge
you can use the standard dewalt chargers. I'm not aware of anyone who've
tried that approach but I think it would give the EV grin to use a
battery from a power tool : )
but lead acid can work too, just 3-4 times heavier

youtube for electric bicycles can be inspirational too
like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcOJZiBYA2I

ah I spoke too soon. this guy use dewalt packs :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKKvP9wWrlY

each pack can do more than 3000watt. a pro biker can do maybe 600 if I
recall correctly

Dan


Owens, Jerry wrote:

> I have been lurking and reading posts on the mailing lists for a while
> and would like to build a small project with my two sons. I am not ready
> to convert my car just yet, but I was thinking of converting a bicycle
> to a hybrid electric/peddled machine. My question for the group is what
> do I need to build a project on the cheep side. How big of a motor is
> needed, how much battery power, and what type of controller. It would be
> great if the bike would also carry my 200lb self the three miles each
> way to and from work without needing a recharge. Any advice would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jerry
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>  

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Re: Small first time EV project suggestions.

Bill Dube
A hub motor is an expensive, sub-optimal solution that seems terrific
and elegant to folks that have not carefully evaluated it in
comparison with other, more traditional, solutions. There are
problems that are not obvious at first glance. Yes, it can be done.
No, you probably don't want to do it that way.

A single DeWalt pack holds 78 watt-hrs. 8km=5 miles 78/5= 15
W-hr/mile (to go 15 miles on a single Dewalt pack)

A bicycle takes about 1/4 to 2/3 HP, depending on how fast you want
go. (Less if you go really slowly, of course) It takes about 1/3 HP
(250 Watts) to go 15 mph. This is 16 W-hr per mile for steady state
riding without the extra weight of the electric drive. Figure that
the electric drive is going to be about 85% efficient, so this puts
us at about 19 W-hr per mile. This is not including stopping and
starting at stop signs, etc. By the time the dust settles, you can
probably expect 25 to 30 W-hr per mile.

         This is 1/2 the range you predicted. If you wanted to keep
up with traffic at 25 mph, the range would go as the inverse square
of the speed ratio. You would use about 53 W-hr per mile at a steady
speed of 25 mph.

 >>>> With a couple stops and starts, you would likely go a mile and
a bit on a single DeWalt pack. <<<<

         Lead-acid would be five times heavier. Since you would have
to haul this added weight, it would probably not even be that good.

         A DeWalt pack has an internal limit set to 70 amps. Thus the
maximum power is 1890 Watts, not 3000 watts.

Almost nothing in Dan's post below is correct.

At 08:41 PM 8/13/2007, you wrote:

>I haven't done any but the most elegant way I've seen is a front wheel
>with built in hub motor. that way very little has to be modified. I
>don't know who makes them but google for electric bicycle hub motor
>might find it.
>for battery, if it's around 30-36v, I think the idea of using dewalt 36v
>packs is very elegant. it's long lived high power pack and can be gotten
>for around 100$ on ebay new. they weigh less than lead acid for the
>energy they hold and a single pack might well get you to work and back.
>rough guess is 8km range. if not just plug in a spare : ) to recharge
>you can use the standard dewalt chargers. I'm not aware of anyone who've
>tried that approach but I think it would give the EV grin to use a
>battery from a power tool : )
>but lead acid can work too, just 3-4 times heavier
>
>youtube for electric bicycles can be inspirational too
>like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcOJZiBYA2I
>
>ah I spoke too soon. this guy use dewalt packs :)
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKKvP9wWrlY
>
>each pack can do more than 3000watt. a pro biker can do maybe 600 if I
>recall correctly
>
>Dan
>
>
>Owens, Jerry wrote:
> > I have been lurking and reading posts on the mailing lists for a while
> > and would like to build a small project with my two sons. I am not ready
> > to convert my car just yet, but I was thinking of converting a bicycle
> > to a hybrid electric/peddled machine. My question for the group is what
> > do I need to build a project on the cheep side. How big of a motor is
> > needed, how much battery power, and what type of controller. It would be
> > great if the bike would also carry my 200lb self the three miles each
> > way to and from work without needing a recharge. Any advice would be
> > appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Re: Small first time EV project suggestions.

Dan Frederiksen-2
oooh sour grapes from the dubester : ) be prepared to be bitch slapped
for your insolence : )

quick googling indicates that typical human biking power is around
80watt going 12mph. efficiency aside that would be about an hour with a
dewalt pack right? let's say we get only half, how long is that... : )
this ebike: http://www.wheelzofcelebration.com/products.html with a
360Wh pack (little over 4 dewalt packs) claims towards 25 mile range.
how much is a quarter of that? is it 1 mile? : )

he shoots, he scores : )

Dan

Bill Dube wrote:
> Almost nothing in Dan's post below is correct.
>  

it doesn't have to be power optimal to be the best solution

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Pics of inside of problem DCP 450 controller - need schematic, manuals, etc...

Michael Mohlere
Anyone have any of the subject literature? The cooling fan on mine does not
work most of the time (forcing the EV into creep mode when it gets hot),
HOWEVER, when I cracked it open and hard wired the fan to 24 vdc, it worked
like a charm...my next thought is that the temp. sensor may be bad, but I do
not know where the temp sensor is, what it looks like, or how it works.  The
capacitors definitely need replacing - one of them just rocks in place when
you give it a nudge.

Just acquired this EV and would like to take advantage of some of the other
features of this controller.

The red and black cut wires connect to the 24vdc cooling fan.

http://www.adjeweb.com/DCP450/100_1829.jpg

http://www.adjeweb.com/DCP450/100_1833.jpg

http://www.adjeweb.com/DCP450/100_1834.jpg

http://www.adjeweb.com/DCP450/100_1836.jpg

Thanks, Mike

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Re: Small first time EV project suggestions.

Mike Willmon-3
In reply to this post by Dan Frederiksen-2
A good athelete can *produce* up to about 1 HP for 30 seconds and a healthy non-athelete can *produce* 1 HP for about 12 seconds.

A good athelete can *sustain* up to about 0.4 Hp for 8 hours and a healthy non-athelete can *sustain* up about 0.1 Hp for 8 hours.

So compared to the average healthy non-athelete the Dewalt 36V pack seems to have way more power but about 8 times less capacity.

I saw a BionX http://www.greenspeed.us/bionx_motor_bike_kit.htm at the renewable energy fair this weekend.  The guy let me ride it
and I found myself with that familiar EV grin.  This was the 36V  350W hub motor with the lithium ion pack.  I don't know the AH
capacity of the pack but the guy said it would do about 7 unassisted miles on flat ground.  The pack looks to be about 2-3 times
the size of the Dewalt 36v pack so I would guess the Dewalt 36V pack might get a light person with a light bike and good racing
tires maybe a couple miles,  more if you pedal a little. Let me tell you though, 350W was enough to zing me pretty fast across the
grass.  Keep in mind when reading the specs on this website, the system is designed to "assist" the rider meaning it will
automatically put out a % of the power you put in.  If you want it to put out 200% of your input power, you still have to put in
power of your own.  200% of nothing is , well, nothing.  It does however have a manual thumb switch which you can lay down on and
get full power with no input of your own.  Just jamb down and hold on.

Read this article to get some ideas how you could get the most out of a single Dewalt pack.
www.home.gci.net/~saintbernard/The_Aerodynamics_of_Human_Powered_Land_Vehicles_Full_Document.pdf

This sounds like a good project for a highschool competition, or some experiments on how far you can go with a single 36V Dewalt
pack :-)  Maybe have voltage classes at multiples of single 36V pack voltages.

Anyone up for a challenge?

> Dan Frederiksen wrote:
>
> oooh sour grapes from the dubester : ) be prepared to be bitch slapped
> for your insolence : )
>
> quick googling indicates that typical human biking power is around
> 80watt going 12mph. efficiency aside that would be about an hour with a
> dewalt pack right? let's say we get only half, how long is that... : )
> this ebike: http://www.wheelzofcelebration.com/products.html with a
> 360Wh pack (little over 4 dewalt packs) claims towards 25 mile range.
> how much is a quarter of that? is it 1 mile? : )
>
> he shoots, he scores : )
>
> Dan
>
> Bill Dube wrote:
> > Almost nothing in Dan's post below is correct.
> >
>
> it doesn't have to be power optimal to be the best solution
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Re: Small first time EV project suggestions.

Dan Frederiksen-2
Looking at the site it says 28 miles with 200% assist with a 36V 9.6Ah pack
assuming the figures are correct that's about 18 2/3 miles pure EV which
for a dewalt pack roughly 4 times smaller is about 4½miles
it doesn't say which speed that is at but still

Dan

Mike Willmon wrote:
> I saw a BionX http://www.greenspeed.us/bionx_motor_bike_kit.htm at the renewable energy fair this weekend.  The guy let me ride it and I found myself with that familiar EV grin.  This was the 36V  350W hub motor with the lithium ion pack.  I don't know the AH capacity of the pack but the guy said it would do about 7 unassisted miles on flat ground.  The pack looks to be about 2-3 times the size of the Dewalt 36v pack so I would guess the Dewalt 36V pack might get a light person with a light bike and good racing tires maybe a couple miles,  more if you pedal a little.

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Re: Pics of inside of problem DCP 450 controller - needschematic, manuals, etc...

Bob Rice-2
In reply to this post by Michael Mohlere

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Mohlere" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 4:45 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Pics of inside of problem DCP 450 controller -
needschematic, manuals, etc...


> Anyone have any of the subject literature? The cooling fan on mine does
> not
> work most of the time (forcing the EV into creep mode when it gets hot),
> HOWEVER, when I cracked it open and hard wired the fan to 24 vdc, it
> worked
> like a charm...my next thought is that the temp. sensor may be bad, but I
> do
> not know where the temp sensor is, what it looks like, or how it works.
> The
> capacitors definitely need replacing - one of them just rocks in place
> when
> you give it a nudge.
>
> Just acquired this EV and would like to take advantage of some of the
> other
> features of this controller.
>
> The red and black cut wires connect to the 24vdc cooling fan.
>
> http://www.adjeweb.com/DCP450/100_1829.jpg
>
> http://www.adjeweb.com/DCP450/100_1833.jpg
>
> http://www.adjeweb.com/DCP450/100_1834.jpg
>
> http://www.adjeweb.com/DCP450/100_1836.jpg
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
      Hi Mike an' EVerybody;

      Talk to Pete Senkowesky out in Clear lake CA He fixes Raptures, or
might have a few ideas? But ya would have to park the EV while it is on it's
CA trip, the controller, I mean.707-994-1972 or 707-350-0156. Is this Fan
thing contagious? I have the same issues with MY Rapture 450 amp job. With
the Phoenix like weathrer I brought home from Phoenix, but FAR more
oppressive with our humidity, I ran the Jetta about 40 miles and had the
heat cut back feature go into effect. But I weeded out two bum badd-eries,
so amps were high and voltage low, that didn't help!Two reversed cells.
Gees! Wish I could dig out the bum cell and change it with ANOTHER good cell
from another bum battery. Like you USED to in the good old tar seal daze.
Next day the fan ran when ya first key in, as it ALWAYS used to. A self
check thing? All Rapturs did/do that when they are happy.IF you get water
inside or even NEAR them ya get NOTHIN! Wish the controller biz could make
stuff like the Chinese Hai Bao car , of forgotten years past; You could hose
the whole engine/controller dept. out with a garden hose!

    But don't get toooo picky, we are lucky to HAVE them, EVen though they
aren't built with places that have weather! Shitty ,damp, cold, drippy,
foggy WEATHER. Maybe as EV history drags on, we will see encapsalated
elecctronics so ya can hose EVerything down, a clean car is a happy car!As I
look out over 70 degreez, sunny weather, lawnmower calling me. Love the
smell of new mown hay!

    To get back to the Rapture; I GUESS there is a heat sensor on that board
ya pixed? HOW does the fan know to start?Is it on the heat sink?Where does
24 volts come from, to begin with?I THOUGHT the fan was 12 volts? Ran off
the Key feed?What used to amaze me with ALL the Raptures, I have had, is
that I could drive to work on the freeway , like LA, stop an' go traffic, in
90 degree weather and it be stone cold in arrival at work. Motor hot as
hell, but controller cool. After dealing with early SCR crap,oh say 35 years
ago, sevcon controllers that needed monster heat sinks, fans, the Rapters
were Raptures, they were COOL in more ways than one WITHOUT any radiaters,
pumps and hoses. I guess ya can use a Zilla for a NORMAL car the same way?Do
ya HAVE to have a cooling systen like on the Zombie?

    Seeya

    Bob


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Re: Pics of inside of problem DCP 450 controller - needschematic, manuals, etc...

Ben-149
No literature or manuals - I'm just lurking around here looking for
ideas on my EV -- But in the bottom left corner of the first pic (
http://www.adjeweb.com/DCP450/100_1829.jpg ), the red blob on the end
of the long leads, bent over next to the capacitor and held down with
some goop (love the technical terminology, huh?) - That looks an awful
lot like a thermistor to me. What's the yellow label at the feet of
those leads?

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Re: Small first time EV project suggestions.

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Owens, Jerry
Owens, Jerry wrote:
> I would like to build a small project with my two sons. I am not ready
> to convert my car just yet, but I was thinking of converting a bicycle
> to a hybrid electric/peddled machine. My question for the group is what
> do I need to build a project on the cheep side. How big of a motor is
> needed, how much battery power, and what type of controller. It would be
> great if the bike would also carry my 200lb self the three miles each
> way to and from work without needing a recharge. Any advice would be
> appreciated.

This is a great way to get started. Electrics make great simple vehicles.

What *type* of vehicle would you like? What would be the most
interesting and appropriate for your sons? Electric bike, motor scooter,
go-kart, ATV, NEV, etc.

For years I've been mentoring 4th-6th graders (8 to 12 year olds) to
build electric vehicles. See www.bestoutreach.com for details. They are
amazingly creative contraptions! It generally takes them 10-20 hours,
and costs under $100. The vehicles typically go 10-20 mph and have a
range of 10 miles or more. They use a surplus 12v sealed battery, one or
two automotive motors rated 12v at 15 amps or so, and a variety of
scrounged and recycled parts from old bicycles, scrap lumber, used pipe,
old furniture, metal shelving, etc.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Re: Small first time EV project suggestions.

Owens, Jerry
Lee,

Thanks for the information. I was thinking of a bicycle because I have
one laying around, but I think the boys may prefer something like a
go-kart. Out of curiosity, what are you using for a motor and batteries?


Jerry

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 11:47 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Small first time EV project suggestions.

Owens, Jerry wrote:
> I would like to build a small project with my two sons. I am not ready
> to convert my car just yet, but I was thinking of converting a bicycle
> to a hybrid electric/peddled machine. My question for the group is
what
> do I need to build a project on the cheep side. How big of a motor is
> needed, how much battery power, and what type of controller. It would
be
> great if the bike would also carry my 200lb self the three miles each
> way to and from work without needing a recharge. Any advice would be
> appreciated.

This is a great way to get started. Electrics make great simple
vehicles.

What *type* of vehicle would you like? What would be the most
interesting and appropriate for your sons? Electric bike, motor scooter,

go-kart, ATV, NEV, etc.

For years I've been mentoring 4th-6th graders (8 to 12 year olds) to
build electric vehicles. See www.bestoutreach.com for details. They are
amazingly creative contraptions! It generally takes them 10-20 hours,
and costs under $100. The vehicles typically go 10-20 mph and have a
range of 10 miles or more. They use a surplus 12v sealed battery, one or

two automotive motors rated 12v at 15 amps or so, and a variety of
scrounged and recycled parts from old bicycles, scrap lumber, used pipe,

old furniture, metal shelving, etc.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Re: Pics of inside of problem DCP 450 controller -needschematic, manuals,

Michael Mohlere
In reply to this post by Bob Rice-2
Bob -

I was able to eliminate the creep mode by hard wiring a 12 volt 450 milliamp
fan into the 12 volt that powers the contactor relay.  This way, whenever
the vehicle key was turned to ON, the fan for the controller was ON. Now,
for the nifty part - instead of cracking the controller open (which is what
is required to replace the fan), I used aluminum duct tape and taped the 12
volt fan outside of the case, right in front of the fan (actually, when you
crack the case, it is a 24 volt, 450 milliamp fan).  I covered the entire
fan w/ the al duct tape, then carefully cut a hold to unobscure the fan
blades - but be careful, as the duct tape glue is fairly strong, and could
conceivably tear up your fan if you are not careful when you remove it.

This is a link describing the EXACT fan that is in my DCP 450:

http://www.beckwithelectronics.com/indek/HDF1238.HTM

The DCP fan before the operation:

http://www.adjeweb.com/DCP450/100_1831.jpg

After:

http://www.adjeweb.com/DCP450/100_1826.jpg

http://www.adjeweb.com/DCP450/100_1827.jpg

Again, considering the havoc this little design flaw wreaks on controller
(burns up/dries out the caps) and the inconvenience, I say just leave the
fan hard-wired to the contactor.  Surely the controller cannot get TOO
cold.....???

Let me know how you make out.  My only concern is that the air flow from the
12 volt fan be nearly equivalent to the 24 volt fan (HDF1238L-24HHB) that is
in the controller - from the link I gave above, the stock 24 volt fan should
push 115 CFM (cubic feet per minute).

When I DO put my controller back together, I plan to mount the fan on the
OUTSIDE of the controller - it doesn't look as clean, but at LEAST it will
be easy to replace!!!!  Remember that, at least on mine, the fan is sucking
air INTO the controller and pushing it across the heat sink fins and out the
other side.

Peter also mentioned that there is room for additional capacitors on the
board (my board has 8 caps mounted on it, but there appears to be room for 7
more).  My father, who is pretty swift w/ electronics, says that more caps
will smooth out the voltage that the motor sees, which is better.  I'll let
you know what I get out of Mr. Senkowsky.

Whew...I'm tuckered out.....

Mike


From: "Bob Rice" <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Pics of inside of problem DCP 450 controller
-needschematic, manuals, etc...
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:26:59 -0400


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Mohlere" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 4:45 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Pics of inside of problem DCP 450 controller -
needschematic, manuals, etc...


 > Anyone have any of the subject literature? The cooling fan on mine does
 > not
 > work most of the time (forcing the EV into creep mode when it gets hot),
 > HOWEVER, when I cracked it open and hard wired the fan to 24 vdc, it
 > worked
 > like a charm...my next thought is that the temp. sensor may be bad, but I
 > do
 > not know where the temp sensor is, what it looks like, or how it works.
 > The
 > capacitors definitely need replacing - one of them just rocks in place
 > when
 > you give it a nudge.
 >
 > Just acquired this EV and would like to take advantage of some of the
 > other
 > features of this controller.
 >
 > The red and black cut wires connect to the 24vdc cooling fan.
 >
 > http://www.adjeweb.com/DCP450/100_1829.jpg
 >
 > http://www.adjeweb.com/DCP450/100_1833.jpg
 >
 > http://www.adjeweb.com/DCP450/100_1834.jpg
 >
 > http://www.adjeweb.com/DCP450/100_1836.jpg
 >
 > Thanks, Mike
 >
       Hi Mike an' EVerybody;

       Talk to Pete Senkowesky out in Clear lake CA He fixes Raptures, or
might have a few ideas? But ya would have to park the EV while it is on it's
CA trip, the controller, I mean.707-994-1972 or 707-350-0156. Is this Fan
thing contagious? I have the same issues with MY Rapture 450 amp job. With
the Phoenix like weathrer I brought home from Phoenix, but FAR more
oppressive with our humidity, I ran the Jetta about 40 miles and had the
heat cut back feature go into effect. But I weeded out two bum badd-eries,
so amps were high and voltage low, that didn't help!Two reversed cells.
Gees! Wish I could dig out the bum cell and change it with ANOTHER good cell
from another bum battery. Like you USED to in the good old tar seal daze.
Next day the fan ran when ya first key in, as it ALWAYS used to. A self
check thing? All Rapturs did/do that when they are happy.IF you get water
inside or even NEAR them ya get NOTHIN! Wish the controller biz could make
stuff like the Chinese Hai Bao car , of forgotten years past; You could hose
the whole engine/controller dept. out with a garden hose!

     But don't get toooo picky, we are lucky to HAVE them, EVen though they
aren't built with places that have weather! Shitty ,damp, cold, drippy,
foggy WEATHER. Maybe as EV history drags on, we will see encapsalated
elecctronics so ya can hose EVerything down, a clean car is a happy car!As I
look out over 70 degreez, sunny weather, lawnmower calling me. Love the
smell of new mown hay!

     To get back to the Rapture; I GUESS there is a heat sensor on that
board
ya pixed? HOW does the fan know to start?Is it on the heat sink?Where does
24 volts come from, to begin with?I THOUGHT the fan was 12 volts? Ran off
the Key feed?What used to amaze me with ALL the Raptures, I have had, is
that I could drive to work on the freeway , like LA, stop an' go traffic, in
90 degree weather and it be stone cold in arrival at work. Motor hot as
hell, but controller cool. After dealing with early SCR crap,oh say 35 years
ago, sevcon controllers that needed monster heat sinks, fans, the Rapters
were Raptures, they were COOL in more ways than one WITHOUT any radiaters,
pumps and hoses. I guess ya can use a Zilla for a NORMAL car the same way?Do
ya HAVE to have a cooling systen like on the Zombie?

     Seeya

     Bob


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Re: Small first time EV project suggestions.

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Owens, Jerry
Owens, Jerry wrote:
> Out of curiosity, what are you using for a motor and batteries?

All different ones; it depends on what got donated or what we could find
a good "deal" on as surplus. We want every team have the same battery,
circuit breaker, and motors.

The batteries are always sealed AGM lead-acids, usually 12v and 30ah or
more. We install a 20a or 30a circuit breaker right on the battery, so
kids can't do too much harm by shorting them. This also insures that
every team has the same voltage and current, thus the same power. That
way, it's fair no matter what or how many motors or controllers they use.

The motors have been various automotive grade 12v motors, the type used
for heater blower and radiator fans. One year we had windshield wiper
gearmotors from some big truck or RV. Another year we had a bunch of
surplus EV Warrior electric bike motors (which were really Ford radiator
fan motors).

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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