Solar trailer calculation

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Solar trailer calculation

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Hi all,
My math is good enough to figure out I get about my 30kw Leaf gets 4.5 miles per kw at 55mph more or less depending on wind.  What I'd like to know is what size solar panel would be needed to support that speed.  Now don't tell me it can't be done.  I just want to know the formula for figuring it out.  My puny brain exploded when I thought of all the variables.  I do know that a 3000 watt system would charge my car in 10 hours.  I would just like to know the numbers of what would be needed for continuous power at speed.  I guesstimated it would be about 10000 watts.  I'd just like the exact number.  Thanks,  Lawrence Rhodes...the point is to build a teardrop solar range extender/RV that could charge while driving.
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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The consumption rate is 12.2 kWh plus losses.

So a 15kW panel should do it? (Is this right? )

Some quick googling suggests 100-110 square meters. 1100 sq ft or so.  8'
wide and 130' long.

YMMV

Brett

On Dec 27, 2017 3:48 PM, "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
> My math is good enough to figure out I get about my 30kw Leaf gets 4.5
> miles per kw at 55mph more or less depending on wind.  What I'd like to
> know is what size solar panel would be needed to support that speed.  Now
> don't tell me it can't be done.  I just want to know the formula for
> figuring it out.  My puny brain exploded when I thought of all the
> variables.  I do know that a 3000 watt system would charge my car in 10
> hours.  I would just like to know the numbers of what would be needed for
> continuous power at speed.  I guesstimated it would be about 10000 watts.
> I'd just like the exact number.  Thanks,  Lawrence Rhodes...the point is to
> build a teardrop solar range extender/RV that could charge while driving.
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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55 mph / 4.5 miles per kwh = 12.22 kwh per hour or 30/12.22 = 2.45 hours of driving time at 55mph with 30 kwh, or 2.45x55=135 mile range at 55mph.

So, to drive continuously at 55mph  you would need a minimum input of 12,220 watts.

Jay

On December 27, 2017 5:47:54 PM EST, Lawrence Rhodes via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Hi all,
>My math is good enough to figure out I get about my 30kw Leaf gets 4.5
>miles per kw at 55mph more or less depending on wind.  What I'd like to
>know is what size solar panel would be needed to support that speed. 
>Now don't tell me it can't be done.  I just want to know the formula
>for figuring it out.  My puny brain exploded when I thought of all the
>variables.  I do know that a 3000 watt system would charge my car in 10
>hours.  I would just like to know the numbers of what would be needed
>for continuous power at speed.  I guesstimated it would be about 10000
>watts.  I'd just like the exact number.  Thanks,  Lawrence Rhodes...the
>point is to build a teardrop solar range extender/RV that could charge
>while driving.
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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Lawrence,
At 4.5 miles per kWh when driving continuous 55 MPH,
you drive 55 miles in 1 hour. In that time you consume
55/4.5 = 12.2 kWh of energy.
If you want to generate that same energy while driving,
to keep your battery at the same level, you need to be
generating an average of 12.2 kW into the battery.
Since you will likely not generate power at the exact
battery voltage, you need to convert, which can mean
anything from 80 - 95% efficiency depending on money
and choices in system components, so let's say that you
need to generate 13 to 14 kW from the panels before
conversion to battery voltage.
But due to sub-optimal conditions (you cannot point the
panel to the sun) you get a varying amount of power from
the panels, depending on the angle that the sun hits them
and the occasional shading that you encounter from trees,
buildings, signs and so forth.
So, you probably need to start with a panel of about 20kWp
in order to end up with an average stream of 12.2kW into
your pack.
Now do the math on the size of that amount of solar:
at roughly 15% panel efficiency (which is extremely high,
12% used to be the norm for many years) you would need
20/0.15 = 133 sqm which is over 1400 sqft.
I believe that 12 ft is the absolute max width of a vehicle on
the road, so this would mean a trailer with a length of 120 ft.
I don't think it will be roadworth or legal or still get 4.5 mi/kWh.

BTW, others have suggested, many years ago and in context of
charging trailers, that you do not need to maintain battery level,
just slow the drain to the point that with stops included, you
replenish enough that your battery is drained at the end of the trip.
Say you take a 330 miles trip. That means 6 hours driving at 55 MPH.
But you also will add a stop for a meal, and possibly a restroom break
with a coffee, say that you have a total of 7 hours trip.
You start with full battery and can drain safely 20 kWh from the battery
by your arrival.
The 330 mi trip takes an amount of energy of 330/4.5 = 73.3 kWh.
You only need to generate 53.3 kWh and have 7 hours to do it.
Now you only need 7.6 kW average into the pack.
If you produce less, you need to take longer breaks, or plug in for fast charge.
You get the idea.
Cor.

-----Original Message-----
From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes via EV
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 2:48 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Lawrence Rhodes
Subject: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation

Hi all,
My math is good enough to figure out I get about my 30kw Leaf gets 4.5 miles per kw at 55mph more or less depending on wind.  What I'd like to know is what size solar panel would be needed to support that speed.  Now don't tell me it can't be done.  I just want to know the formula for figuring it out.  My puny brain exploded when I thought of all the variables.  I do know that a 3000 watt system would charge my car in 10 hours.  I would just like to know the numbers of what would be needed for continuous power at speed.  I guesstimated it would be about 10000 watts.  I'd just like the exact number.  Thanks,  Lawrence Rhodes...the point is to build a teardrop solar range extender/RV that could charge while driving.
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
From
https://www.wholesalesolar.com/1970270/astronergy/solar-panels/astronergy-chsm6610p-270-solar-panel

A 270 watt panel is 64.88" × 38.98".
Your guesstimate of 10000 watts would require (10000 /270) 37.037 panels.
Doing the math (64.88 x 38.98 x 37), that is 93573 sq inches.
There are 144 sq inches in a sq ft, so that is (93573/144) 649 sq ft, or a square
25ft x 25ft.

Now I'm not going to say it is impossible, but it is downright foolish....

Rush

> -----Original Message-----
> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes via EV
> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 3:48 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Lawrence Rhodes
> Subject: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation
>
> Hi all,
> My math is good enough to figure out I get about my 30kw Leaf gets 4.5 miles per
> kw at
> 55mph more or less depending on wind.  What I'd like to know is what size solar
> panel would
> be needed to support that speed.  Now don't tell me it can't be done.  I just
> want to know the
> formula for figuring it out.  My puny brain exploded when I thought of all the
> variables.  I do
> know that a 3000 watt system would charge my car in 10 hours.  I would just like
> to know the
> numbers of what would be needed for continuous power at speed.  I guesstimated
> it would be
> about 10000 watts.  I'd just like the exact number.  Thanks,  Lawrence
> Rhodes...the point is to
> build a teardrop solar range extender/RV that could charge while driving.
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>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I'll tell you, like many others have, again... it can't be done.



On 12/27/2017 5:47 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

> Hi all,
> My math is good enough to figure out I get about my 30kw Leaf gets 4.5 miles per kw at 55mph more or less depending on wind.  What I'd like to know is what size solar panel would be needed to support that speed.  Now don't tell me it can't be done.  I just want to know the formula for figuring it out.  My puny brain exploded when I thought of all the variables.  I do know that a 3000 watt system would charge my car in 10 hours.  I would just like to know the numbers of what would be needed for continuous power at speed.  I guesstimated it would be about 10000 watts.  I'd just like the exact number.  Thanks,  Lawrence Rhodes...the point is to build a teardrop solar range extender/RV that could charge while driving.
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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If you really want a directly solar powered vehicle, you will want to look at the low profile lightweight solar racers that many university teams put together. These tend to use bicycle-like components.

Making it work for a conventional vehicle for sustained highway speeds runs into space, weight, and or cost issues. Top of the line generally available solar modules are around 21% efficient (SunPower, Panasonic, and LG).



On December 27, 2017 9:54:08 PM CST, Alan Arrison via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>I'll tell you, like many others have, again... it can't be done.
>
>
>
>On 12/27/2017 5:47 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> My math is good enough to figure out I get about my 30kw Leaf gets
>4.5 miles per kw at 55mph more or less depending on wind.  What I'd
>like to know is what size solar panel would be needed to support that
>speed.  Now don't tell me it can't be done.  I just want to know the
>formula for figuring it out.  My puny brain exploded when I thought of
>all the variables.  I do know that a 3000 watt system would charge my
>car in 10 hours.  I would just like to know the numbers of what would
>be needed for continuous power at speed.  I guesstimated it would be
>about 10000 watts.  I'd just like the exact number.  Thanks,  Lawrence
>Rhodes...the point is to build a teardrop solar range extender/RV that
>could charge while driving.
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>
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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I do not know who does your math.  The email states "Leaf gets 4.5 miles per kw at 55mph more or less depending on wind."  Therefore, 1000 W / 4.5 miles = 222 W per mile.   This appears to be a little low to me.  However, if it is accurate, you would need 222 W to go one mile.



________________________________
From: EV <[hidden email]> on behalf of Jay Summet via EV <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 4:18 PM
To: Lawrence Rhodes; Electric Vehicle Discussion List; Lawrence Rhodes via EV; [hidden email]
Cc: Jay Summet
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation

55 mph / 4.5 miles per kwh = 12.22 kwh per hour or 30/12.22 = 2.45 hours of driving time at 55mph with 30 kwh, or 2.45x55=135 mile range at 55mph.

So, to drive continuously at 55mph  you would need a minimum input of 12,220 watts.

Jay

On December 27, 2017 5:47:54 PM EST, Lawrence Rhodes via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Hi all,
>My math is good enough to figure out I get about my 30kw Leaf gets 4.5
>miles per kw at 55mph more or less depending on wind.  What I'd like to
>know is what size solar panel would be needed to support that speed.
>Now don't tell me it can't be done.  I just want to know the formula
>for figuring it out.  My puny brain exploded when I thought of all the
>variables.  I do know that a 3000 watt system would charge my car in 10
>hours.  I would just like to know the numbers of what would be needed
>for continuous power at speed.  I guesstimated it would be about 10000
>watts.  I'd just like the exact number.  Thanks,  Lawrence Rhodes...the
>point is to build a teardrop solar range extender/RV that could charge
>while driving.
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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Only to go a mile.  That doesn't take into account how long it takes the
leaf to go that mile, 65ish seconds. (55mph)

Brett

On Dec 27, 2017 11:38 PM, "ROBERT via EV" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I do not know who does your math.  The email states "Leaf gets 4.5 miles
> per kw at 55mph more or less depending on wind."  Therefore, 1000 W / 4.5
> miles = 222 W per mile.   This appears to be a little low to me.  However,
> if it is accurate, you would need 222 W to go one mile.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EV <[hidden email]> on behalf of Jay Summet via EV <
> [hidden email]>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 4:18 PM
> To: Lawrence Rhodes; Electric Vehicle Discussion List; Lawrence Rhodes via
> EV; [hidden email]
> Cc: Jay Summet
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation
>
> 55 mph / 4.5 miles per kwh = 12.22 kwh per hour or 30/12.22 = 2.45 hours
> of driving time at 55mph with 30 kwh, or 2.45x55=135 mile range at 55mph.
>
> So, to drive continuously at 55mph  you would need a minimum input of
> 12,220 watts.
>
> Jay
>
> On December 27, 2017 5:47:54 PM EST, Lawrence Rhodes via EV <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >Hi all,
> >My math is good enough to figure out I get about my 30kw Leaf gets 4.5
> >miles per kw at 55mph more or less depending on wind.  What I'd like to
> >know is what size solar panel would be needed to support that speed.
> >Now don't tell me it can't be done.  I just want to know the formula
> >for figuring it out.  My puny brain exploded when I thought of all the
> >variables.  I do know that a 3000 watt system would charge my car in 10
> >hours.  I would just like to know the numbers of what would be needed
> >for continuous power at speed.  I guesstimated it would be about 10000
> >watts.  I'd just like the exact number.  Thanks,  Lawrence Rhodes...the
> >point is to build a teardrop solar range extender/RV that could charge
> >while driving.
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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Alan Arrison via EV wrote:
> I'll tell you, like many others have, again... it can't be done.

Lawrence (and fellow EVers),

It's not that it can't be done. It just can't be done with the same old
thinking that led to our present way of building cars.

Modern cars are massively heavy and inefficient. Their "aerodynamics"
are designed by stylists for looks; not engineers for performance. They
are built like ironclad battleships; not airplanes. Their heating and
cooling systems are big enough to heat or cool a small apartment. This
means they need a huge amount of power to do the job. With gasoline or
diesel; no problem. We've got "plenty" -- just burn all you need.

The EVs produced by the big auto companies are still taking this
"massive overkill" approach. Their cars are all steel, ridiculously
heavy, and have pitiful aerodynamics. There's no insulation to help
their heating and cooling sytems. So they need expensive, heavy battery
packs, and their KWH/mile is poor.

Electric cars require an entirely different approach. You can't make a
pig fly; but you *can* make a bird fly.

There have been hundreds of solar-powered cars that *do* run on sunlight
alone. They have travelled at freeway speeds, and covered hundreds of
miles a day. But they are built more like airplanes than cars. Light
weight and efficiency are designed in right from the start. Styling and
comfort take a back seat to light weight and efficiency.

For decades, Amory Lovins has championed his "hypercar" concept. Make
the car half the weight, and you double its efficiency. Improve its
aerodynamics, and you double it again. With modern high-strength
materials and manufacturing techniques, it can still be just as strong
and safe. With high-tech electronics, you can drastically reduce the
power needed for creature comforts.

James Worden built the Solectria Sunrise EV using these techniques. Over
20 years ago, he had a 4-passenger car with all the usual amenities that
could go over 300 miles on a charge, weighed only 1600 lbs and still
passed crash standards. And that was without lithium batteries; with
today's batteries, it would have twice the range.

I've been struggling for years to produce a new version of the Sunrise.
Sadly, I haven't been able to do it. I don't have the resources by
myself, and the market simply does not want it.

--
"Verschlimmbessern" (German, verb) - To make something worse by
trying to improve it. (English translation: "Microsoft"?)
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 9:05 PM, ROBERT via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I do not know who does your math.  The email states "Leaf gets 4.5 miles per kw at 55mph more or less depending on wind."  Therefore, 1000 W / 4.5 miles = 222 W per mile.   This appears to be a little low to me.  However, if it is accurate, you would need 222 W to go one mile.
>

This is an example of why the units need to be correct. It should
state that the Leaf gets 4.5 miles per kWh, that is a kilowatt-hour
not a kilowatt. This changes your numbers to 1000 Wh / 4.5mi = 222
Wh/mi. Thus you need 222Wh to go a mile. If you only had 222W from a
solar panel then you need to have one hour of charging to go that
mile.

David D Nelson
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
From what I read it weighed over 3000 lbs. That is not light weight.

My celica weighed 2900 lbs after I converted it.

It did have a 26kwh battery so that’s 30% more than mine.

They must have done something else to get the efficiency to go 200 miles on a charge.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 28, 2017, at 11:56 AM, Lee Hart via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Alan Arrison via EV wrote:
>> I'll tell you, like many others have, again... it can't be done.
>
> Lawrence (and fellow EVers),
>
> It's not that it can't be done. It just can't be done with the same old thinking that led to our present way of building cars.
>
> Modern cars are massively heavy and inefficient. Their "aerodynamics" are designed by stylists for looks; not engineers for performance. They are built like ironclad battleships; not airplanes. Their heating and cooling systems are big enough to heat or cool a small apartment. This means they need a huge amount of power to do the job. With gasoline or diesel; no problem. We've got "plenty" -- just burn all you need.
>
> The EVs produced by the big auto companies are still taking this "massive overkill" approach. Their cars are all steel, ridiculously heavy, and have pitiful aerodynamics. There's no insulation to help their heating and cooling sytems. So they need expensive, heavy battery packs, and their KWH/mile is poor.
>
> Electric cars require an entirely different approach. You can't make a pig fly; but you *can* make a bird fly.
>
> There have been hundreds of solar-powered cars that *do* run on sunlight alone. They have travelled at freeway speeds, and covered hundreds of miles a day. But they are built more like airplanes than cars. Light weight and efficiency are designed in right from the start. Styling and comfort take a back seat to light weight and efficiency.
>
> For decades, Amory Lovins has championed his "hypercar" concept. Make the car half the weight, and you double its efficiency. Improve its aerodynamics, and you double it again. With modern high-strength materials and manufacturing techniques, it can still be just as strong and safe. With high-tech electronics, you can drastically reduce the power needed for creature comforts.
>
> James Worden built the Solectria Sunrise EV using these techniques. Over 20 years ago, he had a 4-passenger car with all the usual amenities that could go over 300 miles on a charge, weighed only 1600 lbs and still passed crash standards. And that was without lithium batteries; with today's batteries, it would have twice the range.
>
> I've been struggling for years to produce a new version of the Sunrise. Sadly, I haven't been able to do it. I don't have the resources by myself, and the market simply does not want it.
>
> --
> "Verschlimmbessern" (German, verb) - To make something worse by
> trying to improve it. (English translation: "Microsoft"?)
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

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Re: Solar trailer calculation

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On 28 Dec 2017 at 5:05, ROBERT via EV wrote:

> I do not know who does your math.  The email states "Leaf gets 4.5 miles per
> kw at 55mph more or less depending on wind."  Therefore, 1000 W / 4.5 miles =
> 222 W per mile.   This appears to be a little low to me.  However, if it is
> accurate, you would need 222 W to go one mile.

First of alll, that should be kilowatt hours (KWH) and watt-hours, not just
watts.  Watts per mile is a meaningless unit.  Saying your EV uses 222 watts
per mile is like saying your ICEV uses 120 horsepower per mile.  

Second, I don't see anything wrong with the math in the message you're
replying to.  My only quibble would be with "you would need a minimum input
of 12,220 watts."  I would say that he needs a minimum AVERAGE input of
about that amount of power.

Others have posted the amount of square PV area needed, so I won't rehash
that.  I'll just remind you that the sun doesn't shine 24 hours a day, and
that insolation is lower on cloudy days and in the winter.  Even if you can
design a trailer to keep your EV going 55 at noon on a clear summer day,
what will you do at other times?  

Putting PVs on a vehicle (or its trailer)  probably isn't the most efficient
use of your PV dollars.  Is it really worth it?  Your call.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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A solar trailer with a conventional EV is not well suited to sustained highway speed transport. It can however be useful for range extension (if you can charge while driving or use the trailer as a pusher) or for slow charging while camping at non-electric camp sites. Getting 1 kW on a trailer is definitely possible, and that in turn can get you about 3-4 kWh per day depending on solar orientation and day length. 3-4 kWh is 12-16 miles/day for a 250 Wh/mile EV. For someone camping in a particular place for several days at a time, this could work out alright.


On December 28, 2017 1:21:41 PM CST, EVDL Administrator via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>On 28 Dec 2017 at 5:05, ROBERT via EV wrote:
>
>> I do not know who does your math.  The email states "Leaf gets 4.5
>miles per
>> kw at 55mph more or less depending on wind."  Therefore, 1000 W / 4.5
>miles =
>> 222 W per mile.   This appears to be a little low to me.  However, if
>it is
>> accurate, you would need 222 W to go one mile.
>
>First of alll, that should be kilowatt hours (KWH) and watt-hours, not
>just
>watts.  Watts per mile is a meaningless unit.  Saying your EV uses 222
>watts
>per mile is like saying your ICEV uses 120 horsepower per mile.  
>
>Second, I don't see anything wrong with the math in the message you're
>replying to.  My only quibble would be with "you would need a minimum
>input
>of 12,220 watts."  I would say that he needs a minimum AVERAGE input of
>
>about that amount of power.
>
>Others have posted the amount of square PV area needed, so I won't
>rehash
>that.  I'll just remind you that the sun doesn't shine 24 hours a day,
>and
>that insolation is lower on cloudy days and in the winter.  Even if you
>can
>design a trailer to keep your EV going 55 at noon on a clear summer
>day,
>what will you do at other times?  
>
>Putting PVs on a vehicle (or its trailer)  probably isn't the most
>efficient
>use of your PV dollars.  Is it really worth it?  Your call.
>
>David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>EVDL Administrator
>
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
>reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
>email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
paul dove wrote:
>  From what I read it weighed over 3000 lbs. That is not light weight.
The GVWR was about 3000 lbs, but that includes the car itself,
batteries, and a full load of passengers and luggage. The cars
themselves varied from 1400 to 1600 lbs, depending on how much "fluff"
was installed. Range records were set with it stripped down. See

http://www.sunrise-ev.com/original.htm#specifications
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solectria_Sunrise
http://www.evdl.org/pages/boston_ny.html


--
"Verschlimmbessern" (German, verb) - To make something worse by
trying to improve it. (English translation: "Microsoft"?)
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
David, you are correct; however, I did the math using the information provided.  The problem is that people use the terms energy and power interchangeably. Power is the rate which work is done and measured in watts.  Energy is the capacity to do work measured in watt-hrs.  I was being sarcastic.  Sorry.

________________________________
From: David Nelson <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 11:19 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: ROBERT
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation

On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 9:05 PM, ROBERT via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I do not know who does your math.  The email states "Leaf gets 4.5 miles per kw at 55mph more or less depending on wind."  Therefore, 1000 W / 4.5 miles = 222 W per mile.   This appears to be a little low to me.  However, if it is accurate, you would need 222 W to go one mile.
>

This is an example of why the units need to be correct. It should
state that the Leaf gets 4.5 miles per kWh, that is a kilowatt-hour
not a kilowatt. This changes your numbers to 1000 Wh / 4.5mi = 222
Wh/mi. Thus you need 222Wh to go a mile. If you only had 222W from a
solar panel then you need to have one hour of charging to go that
mile.

David D Nelson
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
The batteries are part of the car since it won't go without them...... so 2300 lbs?
That's pretty light but not enough to go 217 miles on a charge.

26KWh / 217 = 120Wh/m  They had to have done something else.



      From: Lee Hart via EV <[hidden email]>
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Cc: Lee Hart <[hidden email]>
 Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:25 PM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation
   
paul dove wrote:
>  From what I read it weighed over 3000 lbs. That is not light weight.
The GVWR was about 3000 lbs, but that includes the car itself,
batteries, and a full load of passengers and luggage. The cars
themselves varied from 1400 to 1600 lbs, depending on how much "fluff"
was installed. Range records were set with it stripped down. See

http://www.sunrise-ev.com/original.htm#specifications
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solectria_Sunrise
http://www.evdl.org/pages/boston_ny.html


--
"Verschlimmbessern" (German, verb) - To make something worse by
trying to improve it. (English translation: "Microsoft"?)
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
A 10 by 62 foot array would be 12,000 watts at 22.5% efficiency.  Smaller as the efficiency goes up.  Cost would be based on cell cost.  3,500 cells at lets say 2 to 4 dollars each.7 thousand to 14 thousand for the cells. You could cut down length a bit if some were supported by the vehicle.  Then you get into aerodynamic issues.  Speed would be cut.  So many variables.  It's doable but the finished product has to be smaller and less ranging.  It would have to be super light.  Like 1000 pounds or less.  A better option is to use an Ultravan and put 3kw on the roof.  Less range but cleaner.  Probably be able run 20 miles an hour infinitely. A purpose built vehicle would be best.  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
paul dove via EV wrote:
> The batteries are part of the car since it won't go without them...... so 2300 lbs?
> That's pretty light but not enough to go 217 miles on a charge.
>
> 26KWh / 217 = 120Wh/m  They had to have done something else.
>

Lots of "something elses". Good aerodynamics. Low frontal area. Flush
windows. An absolutely smooth flat bottom. No front grille. High
pressure, low rolling resistance tires (small by modern standards).
Brakes that don't drag. A motor and controller so efficient that they
don't need a power-consuming liquid cooling system.

--
"Verschlimmbessern" (German, verb) - To make something worse by
trying to improve it. (English translation: "Microsoft"?)
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Here's a link to trailer laws compiled by AAA -
http://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/trailer-dimensions/
this is what they say about Calif -
Total length: 65 feet (up to 75 feet in certain circumstances); trailer length: 28
feet 6 inches; motor home length: 40 feet (38 feet for a single-axle fifth wheel
travel trailer; 40 feet for 2- or more axle fifth wheel travel trailer); width:
102 inches (excluding safety equipment and RV appurtenances up to 6 inches);
height: 13 feet 6 inches (14 feet on designated roads).

And I guess you're going to park it in your garage?

Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ 85719

> -----Original Message-----
> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes via EV
> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:39 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Lawrence Rhodes
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation
>
> A 10 by 62 foot array would be 12,000 watts at 22.5% efficiency.  Smaller as the
> efficiency
> goes up.  Cost would be based on cell cost.  3,500 cells at lets say 2 to 4
> dollars each.7
> thousand to 14 thousand for the cells. You could cut down length a bit if some
> were supported
> by the vehicle.  Then you get into aerodynamic issues.  Speed would be cut.  So
> many
> variables.  It's doable but the finished product has to be smaller and less
> ranging.  It would
> have to be super light.  Like 1000 pounds or less.  A better option is to use an
> Ultravan and
> put 3kw on the roof.  Less range but cleaner.  Probably be able run 20 miles an
> hour infinitely.
> A purpose built vehicle would be best.  Lawrence Rhodes
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