Solar trailer calculation

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Re: Solar trailer calculation

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On 28 Dec 2017 at 18:31, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

> Lots of "something elses".  Good aerodynamics. Low frontal area. Flush
> windows. An absolutely smooth flat bottom. No front grille. High
> pressure, low rolling resistance tires (small by modern standards).
> Brakes that don't drag. A motor and controller so efficient that they
> don't need a power-consuming liquid cooling system.  

Also a light, efficient transaxle.  Even the Geo Metro factory transaxle was
too high in friction for his taste, so Worden chucked it and built something
better.  There may be other EV conversion business that went this far, but I
don't know of any.

That's what James Worden was all about.  He obsessively tuned efficiency in
his EVs.  That's why he routinely won the Tour de Sol, and also part of why
his cars were too expensive to ever sell well.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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With more efficient panels that length is reduced to 60 ish feet.  Lawrence Rhodes

      From: Brett Davis <[hidden email]>
 To: Lawrence Rhodes <[hidden email]>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
 Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 3:10 PM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation
   
The consumption rate is 12.2 kWh plus losses. 
So a 15kW panel should do it? (Is this right? )
Some quick googling suggests 100-110 square meters. 1100 sq ft or so.  8' wide and 130' long. 
YMMV
Brett 
On Dec 27, 2017 3:48 PM, "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,
My math is good enough to figure out I get about my 30kw Leaf gets 4.5 miles per kw at 55mph more or less depending on wind.  What I'd like to know is what size solar panel would be needed to support that speed.  Now don't tell me it can't be done.  I just want to know the formula for figuring it out.  My puny brain exploded when I thought of all the variables.  I do know that a 3000 watt system would charge my car in 10 hours.  I would just like to know the numbers of what would be needed for continuous power at speed.  I guesstimated it would be about 10000 watts.  I'd just like the exact number.  Thanks,  Lawrence Rhodes...the point is to build a teardrop solar range extender/RV that could charge while driving.
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
> [Sunrise efficiency] Also a light, efficient transaxle.  Even the Geo Metro
> factory transaxle was too high in friction for his taste, so Worden chucked
> it and built something better.

Not quite; he kept the Geo transaxle, but "gutted" it so all it had was 2nd
gear. It then ran lighter weight oil (not the usual 90w gear lube).

> That's what James Worden was all about.  He obsessively tuned efficiency in
> his EVs.  That's why he routinely won the Tour de Sol, and also part of why
> his cars were too expensive to ever sell well.

That's him! Efficiency was his goal; and he was good at it achieving it.

The cars were expensive simply because they were hand-made in such low
quantities. The efficiency enhancements added little to their cost, but helped
them sell better. So they were probably a step in the right direction.

I think Worden saw the GM EV1 as his real competition. It was another
exceptional EV that was designed from the ground up for efficiency. Neither car
was the "same old thing" -- an EV conversion of a standard ICE vehicle, with an
old forklift motor and off-the-shelf batteries. Instead, they showed us what an
EV can really do if designed right from the very beginning.

I think the genius of Bob Rice was to realize that a) scratch-built EVs really
*can* be built cheaper and simpler than ICEs, and b) Worden's improvements could
be applied to *any* EV that was built from scratch.
--
Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
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Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
> With more efficient panels that length is reduced to 60 ish feet.

But the cost to double efficiency from 18% to 36% costs ONE THOUSAND times
more.
and ALWAYS WILL.  Since 1970, in the same time since Silcon cells have gone
down in cost by 100 to one, the cost of higher efficiency cells has only
gone UP by ten to one.

The difference is now 1000 to one. and DIVERGING not getting closer.  THe
raeson is that the space industry will pay ANYTHING for a few more watts.
The home owner wont pay a dime more..

bob, WB4APR

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> With more efficient panels that length is reduced to 60 ish feet.
> Lawrence Rhodes
>
>       From: Brett Davis <[hidden email]>
>  To: Lawrence Rhodes <[hidden email]>; Electric Vehicle
> Discussion List <[hidden email]>
>  Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 3:10 PM
>  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation
>
> The consumption rate is 12.2 kWh plus losses.
> So a 15kW panel should do it? (Is this right? )
> Some quick googling suggests 100-110 square meters. 1100 sq ft or so.  8'
> wide and 130' long.
> YMMV
> Brett
> On Dec 27, 2017 3:48 PM, "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> My math is good enough to figure out I get about my 30kw Leaf gets 4.5
> miles per kw at 55mph more or less depending on wind.  What I'd like to
> know is what size solar panel would be needed to support that speed.  Now
> don't tell me it can't be done.  I just want to know the formula for
> figuring it out.  My puny brain exploded when I thought of all the
> variables.  I do know that a 3000 watt system would charge my car in 10
> hours.  I would just like to know the numbers of what would be needed for
> continuous power at speed.  I guesstimated it would be about 10000 watts.
> I'd just like the exact number.  Thanks,  Lawrence Rhodes...the point is to
> build a teardrop solar range extender/RV that could charge while driving.
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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If you scaled down and accepted kevel one charging you could use 550 5 inch cells. 2000 watts. Have a 8 x 12 foot tear drop trailer.  It might push you 15 mph on level ground or charge you in 21 hours.  Many variations for shape, power  and speed. I would have eyelets on each corner to tie it down in high winds. The whole DIY build would be plywood on a light weight trailer.    Lawrence Rhodes
https://youtu.be/dWxIbRXGSrs
Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> If you scaled down and accepted kevel one charging you could use 550 5 inch cells. 2000 watts. Have a 8 x 12 foot tear drop trailer.  It might push you 15 mph on level ground or charge you in 21 hours.  Many variations for shape, power  and speed. I would have eyelets on each corner to tie it down in high winds. The whole DIY build would be plywood on a light weight trailer.

When you're aiming for efficiency, I think a trailer is a liability. It
would be better to shape the vehicle itself to have as much roof area as
possible, and use as little energy as possible. Essentially what you see
in cars like Stella, or the solar raycers.

The vehicle can also be specialized for your particular situation. How
far do you drive in a day? Maybe you can size the PV panels and
batteries so it can work for you with little or no grid charging. Maybe
the PV panels can unfold when parked, to significantly increase their area.

--
Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
If you're maximizing your 'efficiency' then why use plywood? Nobody that is
trying to increase strength and lower weight using plywood anymore, they use
Carbon Fiber. So spend a few extra $k and invest in a trailer that will weight
10lbs to hold your 2kw array.

Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ 85719


> -----Original Message-----
> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes via
EV
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2017 9:59 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Lawrence Rhodes
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation
>
> If you scaled down and accepted kevel one charging you could use 550 5 inch
cells. 2000
> watts. Have a 8 x 12 foot tear drop trailer.  It might push you 15 mph on
level ground or charge
> you in 21 hours.  Many variations for shape, power  and speed. I would have
eyelets on each
> corner to tie it down in high winds. The whole DIY build would be plywood on a
light weight

> trailer.    Lawrence Rhodes
> https://youtu.be/dWxIbRXGSrs
> Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
>
> ---
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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Rush Dougherty via EV wrote:
> If you're maximizing your 'efficiency' then why use plywood? Nobody that is
> trying to increase strength and lower weight using plywood anymore, they use
> Carbon Fiber. So spend a few extra $k and invest in a trailer that will weight
> 10lbs to hold your 2kw array.
>

Quality plywood has a pretty good strength-to-weight ratio, and it's
easy to work with. It's kind of a natural composite.

Carbon fiber is stronger, but also brittle, expensive and harder to work
with. Whether it makes sense depends on your budget, the design of the
trailer, and how rigid a support the PV panels need. With a huge
lightweight trailer, I suspect you'd want to avoid glass panels in favor
of something a lot more flexible, in which case plywood might work OK.

But overall, I still think I'd avoid a trailer, and put them on the
vehicle itself.

--
Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On 29 Dec 2017 at 15:37, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

> With more efficient panels that length is reduced to 60 ish feet.

Good luck buying those hyper-efficient PV panels without breaking into Fort
Knox!  

If you can afford that kind of money, though, why not book a flight on
Musk's SpaceX?  Just reach out and snare an old, dark, disused comm
satellite or two as you sail by. :-)

Even if you could afford the PV, 60 feet (longer than a semi trailer) is 2.5
times the length of a nice-sized US 2-car garage.  Where are you going to
park such a trailer? On the street?  

I'm really starting to wonder if you're just trolling us.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On 29 Dec 2017 at 10:02, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

> Not quite; he kept the Geo transaxle, but "gutted" it so all it had was 2nd
> gear. It then ran lighter weight oil (not the usual 90w gear lube).

I take it youi're talking about the Sunrise?  I was thinking of the Force.

I'd be surprised if Worden used the Geo / Suzuki transaxle in the Sunrise,
rather than the more efficient Force transaxle.  However, I'm sure you know
more about that than I do.

Solectria / Brusa designed a least 2 custom transaxles that were used in the
Force.  The AT1000 was driven by a cogged belt and was used until (IIRC)
around 1996.  The belt was noisy, so they built the AT600.  It was gear
driven directly from the motor, and was normally sold as a unit with the
motor.

In the early 1990s, NPR interviewed a Solectria rep (I don't recall who) for
a feature about the Force.  Unfortunately, I wasn't able to grab a dub of
the program when I heard it, so I have to go on memory.  They actually drove
the Force.  Maybe the interviewer commented on the lack of a gearshift, I
don't recall, but I do quite clearly remember the Solectria rep saying "we
do remove the [factory] transmission."

That said, a small number of early Forces were built using the Geo / Suzuki
factory manual gearbox and a rather underpowered BLDC motor.  I think that
Solectria eventually upgraded most or all of them to induction motors and
the in-house transaxles, but there may be a scant few, still scooting around
out there on the roads.

Regardless, my point stands.  James Worden was (probably still is) obsessed
with efficiency.  

Certainly some of his fine-tuning, such as adding flat belly pans to his
EVs, was cheap to do and produced outstanding returns.  Junking the stock
Geo Metro transaxle for a pricey custom-made one might not have been as cost
effective, but I still admire him for his focus on efficiency.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Okay, so with 12.2 kW at 55 mph, he ONLY needs about 600 square meters
of PV area to recharge on the run. Still impractically big, nicht wahr?

Marc de Piolenc

On 12/29/2017 2:44 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Marc,
> Iam afraid you are not making the Leaf specification situation better.
> When Lawrence says he has a 30kW battery, he means 30 kWh.
> That is a 2016 Leaf with the improved battery (normal was 24 kWh).
> All Leafs have a 90 kW rating IIRC, meaning that they can accelerate
> with the
> motor producing up to 90kW of power.
> Standard freeway driving takes about 15kW, Lawrence is apparently
> capable of using only 12.2 kW while mainining 55 MPH on the freeway
> by doing 4.5 mi/kWh.

--
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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I don't think I would want a large flat plate trailer that was not heavy
enough to stay grounded in gusty winds.

Dan

Dan     520-834-4176     I10 and Twin Peaks

On 12/29/2017 12:54 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV wrote:

> If you're maximizing your 'efficiency' then why use plywood? Nobody that is
> trying to increase strength and lower weight using plywood anymore, they use
> Carbon Fiber. So spend a few extra $k and invest in a trailer that will weight
> 10lbs to hold your 2kw array.
>
> Rush Dougherty
> Tucson AZ 85719
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes via
> EV
>> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2017 9:59 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Cc: Lawrence Rhodes
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation
>>
>> If you scaled down and accepted kevel one charging you could use 550 5 inch
> cells. 2000
>> watts. Have a 8 x 12 foot tear drop trailer.  It might push you 15 mph on
> level ground or charge
>> you in 21 hours.  Many variations for shape, power  and speed. I would have
> eyelets on each
>> corner to tie it down in high winds. The whole DIY build would be plywood on a
> light weight
>> trailer.    Lawrence Rhodes
>> https://youtu.be/dWxIbRXGSrs
>> Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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Well those gusts of wind might actually help push him in the direction he was
going, so Lawrence could claim that he was also using wind power...

Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ 85719

> -----Original Message-----
> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of clarke2 via EV
> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 8:05 AM
> To: Rush Dougherty via EV
> Cc: clarke2
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation
>
> I don't think I would want a large flat plate trailer that was not heavy
enough to stay grounded

> in gusty winds.
>
> Dan
>
> Dan     520-834-4176     I10 and Twin Peaks
>
> On 12/29/2017 12:54 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV wrote:
> > If you're maximizing your 'efficiency' then why use plywood? Nobody
> > that is trying to increase strength and lower weight using plywood
> > anymore, they use Carbon Fiber. So spend a few extra $k and invest in
> > a trailer that will weight 10lbs to hold your 2kw array.
> >
> > Rush Dougherty
> > Tucson AZ 85719
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lawrence
> >> Rhodes via
> > EV
> >> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2017 9:59 AM
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Cc: Lawrence Rhodes
> >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation
> >>
> >> If you scaled down and accepted kevel one charging you could use 550
> >> 5 inch
> > cells. 2000
> >> watts. Have a 8 x 12 foot tear drop trailer.  It might push you 15
> >> mph on
> > level ground or charge
> >> you in 21 hours.  Many variations for shape, power  and speed. I
> >> would have
> > eyelets on each
> >> corner to tie it down in high winds. The whole DIY build would be
> >> plywood on a
> > light weight
> >> trailer.    Lawrence Rhodes
> >> https://youtu.be/dWxIbRXGSrs
> >> Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
> >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
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> >> http://www.avg.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
How about we put solar cells on the road surface and either conductively or inductively transfer the energy to the car? :)

No wind problems this way. No large trailers needed either.

It would have localized shading by snow and rush hour, though, amongst other issues pointed out elsewhere for solar roadways.


On December 30, 2017 9:05:24 AM CST, clarke2 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>I don't think I would want a large flat plate trailer that was not
>heavy
>enough to stay grounded in gusty winds.
>
>Dan
>
>Dan     520-834-4176     I10 and Twin Peaks
>
>On 12/29/2017 12:54 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV wrote:
>> If you're maximizing your 'efficiency' then why use plywood? Nobody
>that is
>> trying to increase strength and lower weight using plywood anymore,
>they use
>> Carbon Fiber. So spend a few extra $k and invest in a trailer that
>will weight
>> 10lbs to hold your 2kw array.
>>
>> Rush Dougherty
>> Tucson AZ 85719
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lawrence
>Rhodes via
>> EV
>>> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2017 9:59 AM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Cc: Lawrence Rhodes
>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation
>>>
>>> If you scaled down and accepted kevel one charging you could use 550
>5 inch
>> cells. 2000
>>> watts. Have a 8 x 12 foot tear drop trailer.  It might push you 15
>mph on
>> level ground or charge
>>> you in 21 hours.  Many variations for shape, power  and speed. I
>would have
>> eyelets on each
>>> corner to tie it down in high winds. The whole DIY build would be
>plywood on a
>> light weight
>>> trailer.    Lawrence Rhodes
>>> https://youtu.be/dWxIbRXGSrs
>>> Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>> http://www.avg.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Haudy Kazemi via EV wrote:
> How about we put solar cells on the road surface and either conductively or inductively transfer the energy to the car? :)
>
> No wind problems this way. No large trailers needed either.
>
> It would have localized shading by snow and rush hour, though, amongst other issues pointed out elsewhere for solar roadways.

That's an interesting idea. What if the railroads installed PV panels
between the rails? That way, they never get driven on. The power they
produce can be fed to the rails to power the train.

It would not be difficult to have a "cleaner car" to clear the PV panels
of snow, ice, dust, or debris.

--
Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: Solar trailer calculation

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Lee Hart via EV wrote:
> That's an interesting idea. What if the railroads installed PV panels
> between the rails? That way, they never get driven on. The power they
> produce can be fed to the rails to power the train.
>
> It would not be difficult to have a "cleaner car" to clear the PV
> panels of snow, ice, dust, or debris.
>
PS: Trains *are* able to tow a trailer with enough roof area to produce
all the power needed to run it!

--
Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: Solar trailer calculation

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Solar Freaking Roadways!
https://youtu.be/qlTA3rnpgzU

      From: Haudy Kazemi via EV <[hidden email]>
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Cc: Haudy Kazemi <[hidden email]>
 Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 11:54 AM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation
   
How about we put solar cells on the road surface and either conductively or inductively transfer the energy to the car? :)

No wind problems this way. No large trailers needed either.

It would have localized shading by snow and rush hour, though, amongst other issues pointed out elsewhere for solar roadways.


On December 30, 2017 9:05:24 AM CST, clarke2 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>I don't think I would want a large flat plate trailer that was not
>heavy
>enough to stay grounded in gusty winds.
>
>Dan
>
>Dan    520-834-4176    I10 and Twin Peaks
>
>On 12/29/2017 12:54 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV wrote:
>> If you're maximizing your 'efficiency' then why use plywood? Nobody
>that is
>> trying to increase strength and lower weight using plywood anymore,
>they use
>> Carbon Fiber. So spend a few extra $k and invest in a trailer that
>will weight
>> 10lbs to hold your 2kw array.
>>
>> Rush Dougherty
>> Tucson AZ 85719
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lawrence
>Rhodes via
>> EV
>>> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2017 9:59 AM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Cc: Lawrence Rhodes
>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation
>>>
>>> If you scaled down and accepted kevel one charging you could use 550
>5 inch
>> cells. 2000
>>> watts. Have a 8 x 12 foot tear drop trailer.  It might push you 15
>mph on
>> level ground or charge
>>> you in 21 hours.  Many variations for shape, power  and speed. I
>would have
>> eyelets on each
>>> corner to tie it down in high winds. The whole DIY build would be
>plywood on a
>> light weight
>>> trailer.    Lawrence Rhodes
>>> https://youtu.be/dWxIbRXGSrs
>>> Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>> http://www.avg.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
You do not want to know what (passenger)trains are dumping on the
tracks...

-----Original Message-----
From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 11:20 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Lee Hart
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation

Haudy Kazemi via EV wrote:
> How about we put solar cells on the road surface and either
> conductively or inductively transfer the energy to the car? :)
>
> No wind problems this way. No large trailers needed either.
>
> It would have localized shading by snow and rush hour, though, amongst
other issues pointed out elsewhere for solar roadways.

That's an interesting idea. What if the railroads installed PV panels
between the rails? That way, they never get driven on. The power they
produce can be fed to the rails to power the train.

It would not be difficult to have a "cleaner car" to clear the PV panels
of snow, ice, dust, or debris.

--
Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all our
deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, and a
sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: Solar trailer calculation

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
> I take it youi're talking about the Sunrise?  I was thinking of the Force.

Yes, the Sunrise. The one I saw certainly looked like a Geo Metro transaxle. But
I don't know what was inside it. Since they were pretty much hand built to
order, it's also possible different cars used different setups. At least two
different motors were used (GUX20 and GUX30).

> Regardless, my point stands.  James Worden was (probably still is) obsessed
> with efficiency.

Yes indeed. And he was *good* at it!

> Certainly some of his fine-tuning, such as adding flat belly pans to his
> EVs, was cheap to do and produced outstanding returns.  Junking the stock
> Geo Metro transaxle for a pricey custom-made one might not have been as cost
> effective, but I still admire him for his focus on efficiency.

Paul MacCready of Aerovironment had similar sentiments when they were designing
the Impact. When asked what the "secret" was to such high performance, he
replied that there was no secret... it was just a matter of paying attention to
all the details.

--
I'm more interested in a world that works than one that sells. -- Paul MacCready
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: Solar trailer calculation

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
You can see this coming to fruition in 11 or 12 decades.  With adoption of
self driving cars, the need for safety features will wane.  Then we can
build cars with the driver laying supine or prone depending on preference
with every car being a fairly uniform 150 foot long 8 foot wide ground
craft.  Short haul trucks would rarely deposit themselves onto the personal
vehicles and frankly, few personal vehicles would even be used.  Most of
these would be short delivery robots providing predicted goods and services
directly to your door. To go see families and friends people would
generally use ground taxi craft for short trips to public transportation
since all arrivals and destinations would be preprogrammed and logistically
calculated. Ownership would be rare.

It sounds kind of amazing and beautiful.  And kind of grotesque if you
aren't much of a conformer or team player.  I might have been looking at
too many Syd Meade paintings.

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 7:31 PM, Lee Hart via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> paul dove via EV wrote:
>
>> The batteries are part of the car since it won't go without them...... so
>> 2300 lbs?
>> That's pretty light but not enough to go 217 miles on a charge.
>>
>> 26KWh / 217 = 120Wh/m  They had to have done something else.
>>
>>
> Lots of "something elses". Good aerodynamics. Low frontal area. Flush
> windows. An absolutely smooth flat bottom. No front grille. High pressure,
> low rolling resistance tires (small by modern standards). Brakes that don't
> drag. A motor and controller so efficient that they don't need a
> power-consuming liquid cooling system.
>
>
> --
> "Verschlimmbessern" (German, verb) - To make something worse by
> trying to improve it. (English translation: "Microsoft"?)
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Hart,+814+8th+Ave+N,+Sartell+MN&entry=gmail&source=g>
> 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> /NEDRA)
>
>


--
Sean Korb [hidden email] http://www.spkorb.org
'65 Suprang,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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