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Sunrise EV2 website updated

Lee Hart
Gary Krysztopik reminded me... I've been steadily updating the Sunrise
EV2 website. If you haven't been there for a while, take a look and let
me know what you think.

http://www.sunrise-ev.com

There's also a "donate" button if you'd like to help. :-)
--
"It is of enormous importance because of the shortage of gasoline.
Portable power plants are necessary. Portable power plants mean portable
fuel. But liquid fuel from the earth is limited in quantity. Coal is
also limited, practically; we have enough for perhaps a hundred years,
but then what? Water power is inexhaustible. With water power to make
electricity and an efficient means of storing that energy by a battery,
we can be independent of gasoline for many purposes for which it is now
used. The enormous increase in the use of electric wagons, trucks, and
pleasure cars, equipped with these batteries, clearly shows the trend of
the future."
        -– Tom Edison, 1924
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: Sunrise EV2 website updated

damon henry

Hi Lee,
It's looking good.  Nice to see progress.  I personally just love seeing new pictures.  I was surprised to see a rear windshield wiper.  That is not a feature that many cars have, and a seemingly unnecessary aero drag. Not much of an extra drag, but since this car is all about building from the ground up for optimum efficiency it seems like an odd choice.
damon

> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 17:11:26 -0600
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [EVDL] Sunrise EV2 website updated
>
> Gary Krysztopik reminded me... I've been steadily updating the Sunrise
> EV2 website. If you haven't been there for a while, take a look and let
> me know what you think.
>
> http://www.sunrise-ev.com
>
> There's also a "donate" button if you'd like to help. :-)
> --
> "It is of enormous importance because of the shortage of gasoline.
> Portable power plants are necessary. Portable power plants mean portable
> fuel. But liquid fuel from the earth is limited in quantity. Coal is
> also limited, practically; we have enough for perhaps a hundred years,
> but then what? Water power is inexhaustible. With water power to make
> electricity and an efficient means of storing that energy by a battery,
> we can be independent of gasoline for many purposes for which it is now
> used. The enormous increase in the use of electric wagons, trucks, and
> pleasure cars, equipped with these batteries, clearly shows the trend of
> the future."
> -– Tom Edison, 1924
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Re: Sunrise EV2 website updated

Lee Hart
On 3/19/2012 4:35 PM, damon henry wrote:
> Hi Lee, It's looking good.  Nice to see progress.  I personally just
> love seeing new pictures.

Thanks, Damon! I've been adding new pictures every week lately. Some
people have said too much text, too little pictures.

> I was surprised to see a rear windshield wiper.

It's only there because the Mercury Cougar that donated the hatch had
it. Obviously, it can be taken off. :-)

It can be useful, however. Very flat windows are very hard to see out of
when they aren't clean. The rear wiper and washer helps visibility. The
wiper also parks vertically, which minimizes drag.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
        -- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: Sunrise EV2 website updated

Mike Nickerson
Hi Lee,

It's great to see all the progress!  There have been a lot of excellent
changes since I last checked the site.  Three things come to mind as I look
over the pages:

1.  The donor vehicles are getting kind of old.  The newest suspension donor
is 15 years old.  Are they still readily available?  More particularly, I
wonder if people interested in building a Sunrise EV2 should start looking
for a donor to make sure they can find one?

2.  It looks like two different donor cars are needed.  One for suspension
and one for rear bumper, lights, window, etc.  However, a 1997 Cougar works
for the suspension and a 1999 Cougar is OK for the rear body parts.  Would
it be feasible to use a 1999 Cougar for the suspension?  That would allow
one donor car to meet all the needs.

3.  As an amateur working on a conversion, I know one piece of documentation
that would be very helpful.  It would be great if 3D models of the interior
space for batteries and electronics were available.  Especially under the
hood is very difficult to use the space efficiently since it is difficult to
measure the vertical dimension.  If a model of the space were available, it
would really with the design tasks.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 6:04 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise EV2 website updated
>
> On 3/19/2012 4:35 PM, damon henry wrote:
> > Hi Lee, It's looking good.  Nice to see progress.  I personally just
> > love seeing new pictures.
>
> Thanks, Damon! I've been adding new pictures every week lately. Some
> people have said too much text, too little pictures.
>
> > I was surprised to see a rear windshield wiper.
>
> It's only there because the Mercury Cougar that donated the hatch had it.
> Obviously, it can be taken off. :-)
>
> It can be useful, however. Very flat windows are very hard to see out of
> when they aren't clean. The rear wiper and washer helps visibility. The
wiper

> also parks vertically, which minimizes drag.
> --
> *BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
> -- Mahatma Gandhi
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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Re: Sunrise EV2 website updated

Mike Nickerson
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
One other thing I forgot.   When you get the chance, could you post another
overall picture so we can see the vehicle lines and see how it looks
overall?  

Again, thanks for all the dedication to the cause!

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 6:04 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise EV2 website updated
>
> On 3/19/2012 4:35 PM, damon henry wrote:
> > Hi Lee, It's looking good.  Nice to see progress.  I personally just
> > love seeing new pictures.
>
> Thanks, Damon! I've been adding new pictures every week lately. Some
> people have said too much text, too little pictures.
>
> > I was surprised to see a rear windshield wiper.
>
> It's only there because the Mercury Cougar that donated the hatch had it.
> Obviously, it can be taken off. :-)
>
> It can be useful, however. Very flat windows are very hard to see out of
> when they aren't clean. The rear wiper and washer helps visibility. The
wiper

> also parks vertically, which minimizes drag.
> --
> *BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
> -- Mahatma Gandhi
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Re: Sunrise EV2 website updated

Gary Krysztopik-2
In reply to this post by Mike Nickerson
|  1. The donor vehicles are getting kind of old. The newest suspension
donor is 15 years old.  Are they still readily available?   More
particularly, I wonder if people interested in
|   building a Sunrise EV2 should start looking for a donor to make sure
they can find one?

I'm in central TX and I found quite a few for cheap.  I bought one in
pretty good shape for $400, others were $300-400.  I stripped off the
running gear, doors, AC, steering column and front clip and bumper then
sold the motor and tranny for $200 and got $200 at the auto recycling
yard.  I was pretty easy to strip everything, wish I had room and time
to do more.  Seems like a great donor to me.  The way the entire front
and rear running gear assemblies drop right out is really nice.

--
Gary Krysztopik
ZWheelz, LLC -www.ZWheelz.com
Alamo City Electric Auto Association -www.aceaa.org
blog -http://voices.mysanantonio.com/drive_electric_san_antonio/
San Antonio, TX




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Re: Sunrise EV2 website updated

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Mike Nickerson
On 3/19/2012 11:05 PM, Mike Nickerson wrote:
> 1.  The donor vehicles are getting kind of old.

Old? Hey, my newest car is a 2002! The donors aren't much older than
that. :-)

"Old" also means cheap and available. We've bought several of these
cars, and never paid over $400 for them. Ford made over a million of
them, so they're fairly easy to find. They're also old enough that they
are being retired (usually for problems with the engine, transmission,
or body, none of which matter to us).

The T'Bird/Cougar suspension is also well above average; fully
independent front and rear. Most cars today have McPherson struts and
solid axles. It's very strong, as it was meant to handle cars with GVWRs
over 4800 lbs. And it's a convenient package to unbolt, and move to a
new chassis.

> 2.  It looks like two different donor cars are needed.

The early T'Bird/Cougar/Lincoln provides the suspension, brakes,
steering, differential, etc. You might as well get the whole car to get
this many parts.

The later Cougar only provides a few body parts. You don't need the
whole car; just a few parts that can be obtained from a junk yard.

> Would it be feasible to use a 1999 Cougar for the suspension?  That would
> allow one donor car to meet all the needs.

No; the 1999-2002 Cougar is much smaller; a completely different car.
It's based on the Ford Focus, and has the usual solid rear axle, front
wheel drive with McPherson strut suspension.

> 3. It would be great if 3D models of the interior space for batteries
> and electronics were available.  Especially under the hood is very
> difficult to use the space efficiently since it is difficult to
> measure the vertical dimension.

I'm working on it, but am no good with mechanical CAD. I'll get there;
but it's a lot of work just to make pretty pictures. It's easier for me
to build the real parts, and take real pictures of them. :-)

In the case of the Sunrise, 3D modelling may be unnecessary. There is
basically *nothing* under the hood! Just the brake master cylinder and
power steering rack, which are parts of the donor car. Most of the
"hood" space is filled by the front end of the central battery tunnel
and batteries.

The batteries all go in the central tunnel. It is a simple rectangular
box, 12"x15"x120". No fights to crowd batteries into oddball spaces!

The electricals are also all in a simple rectangular box. No crowding
and struggling to fit them into leftover spaces like in a regular car.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
        -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: Sunrise EV2 website updated

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Mike Nickerson
On 3/19/2012 11:08 PM, Mike Nickerson wrote:
> One other thing I forgot.   When you get the chance, could you post another
> overall picture so we can see the vehicle lines and see how it looks
> overall?

Good idea. I'll get started on it.

--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong reasons.
        -- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: Sunrise EV2 website updated

Mike Nickerson
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
Hi Lee,

I understand the older cars.  My newest car is a 2000.  I'm just hoping this
effort will go on for many years and I'm glad to hear that parts should be
available for a long time.  I'm starting to wonder if I should try and
convince my wife that it's time to start stockpiling some parts.  I'll
probably wait a while.  Even though we have plenty of space, that will be a
tough sell.  She doesn't like "junk" hanging around and, for a while, these
would be hard to differentiate from junk (at least to her).

Good point about the space in the car.  I'm trying to pack 25 battery cells
+ insulation and boxes, controller, charger, motor/transmission, cab heater,
and DC-DC converter all under the hood of a Honda del Sol.  Those all fit OK
until I tried to add the insulation and boxes for the batteries.  I'm
literally fitting parts in within 1/4" all over the place.  Having all the
space under the hood available would be a luxury!  Sounds like you could use
it for a trunk!

Having all that space probably makes the need for the documentation I talked
about less.  I'm also hoping that it wouldn't be too much work to develop.
We just need measurements across a few key areas in both width and height.  

Another good point that only selected pieces are needed from the Cougar.
That makes the shopping earlier.  You could probably buy one privately, take
the parts you need and sell it to a junk yard for about what you paid.  Or,
just go buy the parts you need from a junkyard.

I can hardly wait!

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 12:51 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise EV2 website updated
>
> On 3/19/2012 11:05 PM, Mike Nickerson wrote:
> > 1.  The donor vehicles are getting kind of old.
>
> Old? Hey, my newest car is a 2002! The donors aren't much older than that.
:-
> )
>
> "Old" also means cheap and available. We've bought several of these cars,
> and never paid over $400 for them. Ford made over a million of them, so
> they're fairly easy to find. They're also old enough that they are being
retired
> (usually for problems with the engine, transmission, or body, none of
which
> matter to us).
>
> The T'Bird/Cougar suspension is also well above average; fully independent
> front and rear. Most cars today have McPherson struts and solid axles.
It's
> very strong, as it was meant to handle cars with GVWRs over 4800 lbs. And
> it's a convenient package to unbolt, and move to a new chassis.
>
> > 2.  It looks like two different donor cars are needed.
>
> The early T'Bird/Cougar/Lincoln provides the suspension, brakes, steering,
> differential, etc. You might as well get the whole car to get this many
parts.
>
> The later Cougar only provides a few body parts. You don't need the whole
> car; just a few parts that can be obtained from a junk yard.
>
> > Would it be feasible to use a 1999 Cougar for the suspension?  That
> > would allow one donor car to meet all the needs.
>
> No; the 1999-2002 Cougar is much smaller; a completely different car.
> It's based on the Ford Focus, and has the usual solid rear axle, front
wheel
> drive with McPherson strut suspension.
>
> > 3. It would be great if 3D models of the interior space for batteries
> > and electronics were available.  Especially under the hood is very
> > difficult to use the space efficiently since it is difficult to
> > measure the vertical dimension.
>
> I'm working on it, but am no good with mechanical CAD. I'll get there; but
it's
> a lot of work just to make pretty pictures. It's easier for me to build
the real
> parts, and take real pictures of them. :-)
>
> In the case of the Sunrise, 3D modelling may be unnecessary. There is
> basically *nothing* under the hood! Just the brake master cylinder and
> power steering rack, which are parts of the donor car. Most of the "hood"
> space is filled by the front end of the central battery tunnel and
batteries.
>
> The batteries all go in the central tunnel. It is a simple rectangular
box,

> 12"x15"x120". No fights to crowd batteries into oddball spaces!
>
> The electricals are also all in a simple rectangular box. No crowding and
> struggling to fit them into leftover spaces like in a regular car.
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget your perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in.
> -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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