Two EV's to Donate

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Two EV's to Donate

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
We are a four EV family now and that is two too many.  We want to donate our two EV conversions (we also have a 2013 Rav4-EV and a 2002 Rav4-EV that are our main vehicles) to a non-profit organization (we would like the tax deduction).  We would prefer to donate to a school or school(s) that have an automotive program.  Second choice would be to a non-profit that will fix them up and use them.  We don’t want them going to an auction house where they would be sold for scrap or cannibalized for parts.  We have already done that with our old Windstar minivan (our last ICE car).

We had arranged to donate them to a school and did a lot of paperwork for the school to accept the donation, but the school never completed the process and came to pick them up.  Until about a year ago, we kept them charged and drove them a mile or two periodically and maintained while we waited for the school.  After sitting for a year they undoubtedly will need some TLC.  They both ran and we had fixed everything that we knew was wrong (except a slow leak in one tire).  The odometer has been fixed in the Saturn. I don't know what the current range is. Both have all of the details on EVAlbum:

http://www.evalbum.com/preview.php?vid=3354 <http://www.evalbum.com/preview.php?vid=3354>
http://www.evalbum.com/preview.php?vid=3355 <http://www.evalbum.com/preview.php?vid=3355>
We are about 40 minutes west of Santa Rosa in the redwood forests of Northern California.  They will need to be towed with a trailer or a dolly.  They are both currently registered with the DMV as EV’s and as non-operated vehicles. If you have any questions or are interested, feel free to drop me an email.

 

John Blair

[hidden email]

 
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Re: Two EV's to Donate

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Every dog has it's day.  I think you would be better off to sell. At least then the parts will be used in a working project.  If you donate I would be surprised if anyone would honor your do not scrap or cannibalize rule. These cars are near worthless.  Sorry to say.  I've spent thousands running cars like these.  I was lucky to get 3k for my Aspire.  I now have Leafs.  Be happy if someone just wants them for parts.  They are old technology which has no place in the brush less motor world of today. Not to mention lithium batteries. Sincerely, Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: Two EV's to Donate

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On 10 Sep 2017 at 22:16, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

> They are old technology which has no place in the brush less motor
> world of today.

Yes, but they have an upside:

You can actually work on them yourself, without having to fight some
automaker's proprietary security stuff.

If the motor or controller craps out, you can replace it (or them) with
whatever new unit(s) you want.  Same with the DC:DC, brake vacuum pump, and
so on.  Same with the battery. You can upgrade or downgrade any component at
will.  You can get parts from any source, not just the dealer.  You won't
have the car rejecting some junkyard or generic part you put in because it
isn't "registered" with the body computer, or whatever.  

There seems to be a large and growing "hacking" (in a good way) community
devoted to some production EVs, but even those are still much more locked
down and opaque than any conversion.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: Two EV's to Donate

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"You can actually work on them yourself, without having to fight some automaker's proprietary security stuff."  That said; however, on older conversions and on most conversions the conversion documentation is very weak and documentation on the individual components is limited or non-exist.  Many companies that made battery chargers, motor controllers, meter, and other electronic devices had limited documentation or proprietary documentation and never a schematic or software source code.  I would rather hack a production EV product than reverse engineer or troubleshoot a product from a company that was out of business.  A good example is the original EV1 hardware.  Try to work on that stuff.  Its value is nil.


________________________________
From: EV <[hidden email]> on behalf of EVDL Administrator via EV <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 5:17 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: EVDL Administrator
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Two EV's to Donate

On 10 Sep 2017 at 22:16, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

> They are old technology which has no place in the brush less motor
> world of today.

Yes, but they have an upside:

You can actually work on them yourself, without having to fight some
automaker's proprietary security stuff.

If the motor or controller craps out, you can replace it (or them) with
whatever new unit(s) you want.  Same with the DC:DC, brake vacuum pump, and
so on.  Same with the battery. You can upgrade or downgrade any component at
will.  You can get parts from any source, not just the dealer.  You won't
have the car rejecting some junkyard or generic part you put in because it
isn't "registered" with the body computer, or whatever.

There seems to be a large and growing "hacking" (in a good way) community
devoted to some production EVs, but even those are still much more locked
down and opaque than any conversion.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: Two EV's to Donate

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
David....While what you say is true it is also true that golfcart/forklift type of conversions are simple to troubleshoot but they are also prone to blown controllers.  One thing to do is hack Leaf packs to put into conversions of unusual vehicles.  I stopped my EV escapades when I got an estimate of 22k for batteries and BMS/charger for my Aspire.  I now have two Leafs for little more money.  I have been driving the State of California with my Leafs.  This is something I couldn't do with my conversions.  However with inexpensive Leaf packs available it is possible to revive some conversions and I think converting RV type vehicles may come into vogue.  
https://www.designboom.com/technology/solar-electric-volkswagen-camper-van-12-02-2016/Here is an example of a lead conversion which gives the owner great satisfaction.  However there are plans to expand the range of this conversion to 150 miles and the solar array to 8kw.  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: Two EV's to Donate

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
From: ROBERT via EV <[hidden email]>
>"You can actually work on them yourself, without having to fight some automaker's proprietary security stuff."  That said; however, on older conversions and on most conversions the conversion documentation is very weak and documentation on the individual components is limited or non-exist.  Many companies that made battery chargers, motor controllers, meter, and other electronic devices had limited documentation or proprietary documentation and never a schematic or software source code.  I would rather hack a production EV product than reverse engineer or troubleshoot a product from a company that was out of business.  A good example is the original EV1 hardware.  Try to work on that stuff.  Its value is nil.

I beg to differ. Most of the early battery chargers and controllers were built with generic parts that are still widely available. There was little or no software in the way, as they didn't *have* microcomputers running them. Schematics can usually be found quite easily on the web, either in the old service manuals or ones that someone has reverse-engineered and posted.

If by "EV1" you mean the GM EV1 electric car, then you're right; its controller, charger, and associated systems are essentially undocumented and unfixable -- just the way GM wanted it.

But if you mean the GE EV1 EV controllers, they are eminently repairable and hackable. Full service manuals with schematics are available. Virtually every part can be easily replaced with basic tools. There is *no* software to get in the way.

I would much rather fix a Curtis 1231 EV controller than a GM Dolphin controller.

--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: Two EV's to Donate

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"I beg to differ. Most of the early battery chargers and controllers were built with generic parts that are still widely available. There was little or no software in the way, as they didn't *have* microcomputers running them. Schematics can usually be found quite easily on the web, either in the old service manuals or ones that someone has reverse-engineered and posted."


Lee, you are correct; however, the early BC and controllers were inefficient and would not be acceptable for a present day EV conversion.  Same applies to the GE EV1 controller.  My comment concerned the low value of a 10 year old DC EV conversion and the difficulty in maintaining the system.  As to easy of troubleshooting an older EV just read the on going discussion "Slow due to 96V pack".  This system was used on a lot of early EV conversions and the knowledge base is still limited and conflicted.


It has been and still is my opinion that someone needs to design an open source PFC battery charger and 200KW motor controller with direct torque control.  I have always felt the EAA should have sponsored and supported a technical group for this purpose.  I started working with the EV group about 15 years ago.  No production EV was available.  The only choose was a conversion.  EV equipment was limited and many people like you developed some equipment; however, national support was limited and no central repository for documentation was available.  In my opinion, this has hurt/killed the EV conversion market.  As a compliment to you and others who developed early EV equipment, we all thank you.  However, the big boys (car companies) have won.


________________________________
From: EV <[hidden email]> on behalf of Lee Hart via EV <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 4:34 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Lee Hart
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Two EV's to Donate

From: ROBERT via EV <[hidden email]>
>"You can actually work on them yourself, without having to fight some automaker's proprietary security stuff."  That said; however, on older conversions and on most conversions the conversion documentation is very weak and documentation on the individual components is limited or non-exist.  Many companies that made battery chargers, motor controllers, meter, and other electronic devices had limited documentation or proprietary documentation and never a schematic or software source code.  I would rather hack a production EV product than reverse engineer or troubleshoot a product from a company that was out of business.  A good example is the original EV1 hardware.  Try to work on that stuff.  Its value is nil.

I beg to differ. Most of the early battery chargers and controllers were built with generic parts that are still widely available. There was little or no software in the way, as they didn't *have* microcomputers running them. Schematics can usually be found quite easily on the web, either in the old service manuals or ones that someone has reverse-engineered and posted.

If by "EV1" you mean the GM EV1 electric car, then you're right; its controller, charger, and associated systems are essentially undocumented and unfixable -- just the way GM wanted it.

But if you mean the GE EV1 EV controllers, they are eminently repairable and hackable. Full service manuals with schematics are available. Virtually every part can be easily replaced with basic tools. There is *no* software to get in the way.

I would much rather fix a Curtis 1231 EV controller than a GM Dolphin controller.

--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com____________________________________


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