V2G - any specs for home power generation during outages?

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V2G - any specs for home power generation during outages?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In the wake of Hurricane Dorian, my province Nova Scotia had over 400,000
customers without power. Our home had no power for over 27 hours. Luckily I
have lots of batteries and a generator but many homes did not have a backup
option and still 60,000 are on Day 4 without.   One gentleman ( a fellow FB
friend) used an inverter off his Chevy Volt to power his fridge and freezer:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/electric-car-hurricane-dorian-1.5274674?fbclid=IwAR29ajKp3gBsVsgdGniiMv6s9fTgtMRSMvHNoCKnMiCjhIyL8i3D-PgLex0


Not the most elegant setup but worked great none the less.  My question is,
does Vehicle to Grid have any options for home power during outages?  Would
seem to be a great opportunity for EVs, instead of buying a generator use
that money towards an EV and a V2G equipped charger.  Obviously some safety
measures would have to be put in like a bypass switch used in panel fed
generators.  Would probably be even safer than a generator as usually 1-2
people die a year in this province alone from carbon monoxide poisoning
from generators not placed in a well ventilated area.

Thanks
Dan
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Re: V2G - any specs for home power generation during outages?

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Dan,

One word – no.

Typically V2G or V2H is acting exacly like a Solar inverter, meaning that it can deliver power when there is already AC power to begin with. The reason is that it is designed for load support (brownout protection) for short periods of time where the grid gets overloaded. When the grid fails, the charging station will shut down and not even attempt to connect to the car.

In theory the car is capable of generating a micro grid and in addition you find this function on some inverters that connect to the Nissan Leaf DC Fast Charge port (CHAdeMO) while the Combo port is in standardization to allow bidirectional power transfer. This type of inverter is “island”, so it cannot connect to the grid, but you can generate power, it simply uses the car battery as backup battery.

I have seen a few people who connect a UPS to a Prius Hybrid battery, allowing more than the ~800W of AC power, though typically you do not need a lot of power to keep the fridge going, if you can do without electric heat.
As soon as you want to run a microwave or water cooker or electric coffee maker, you need more than 1kW inverter. Having a gas stove, a BBQ or similar non-electric powered cooker is helpful if you like to have warm food or drink during a power outage…
Cor.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dan Baker via EV
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 12:37 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Dan Baker
Subject: [EVDL] V2G - any specs for home power generation during outages?

In the wake of Hurricane Dorian, my province Nova Scotia had over 400,000
customers without power. Our home had no power for over 27 hours. Luckily I
have lots of batteries and a generator but many homes did not have a backup
option and still 60,000 are on Day 4 without.   One gentleman ( a fellow FB
friend) used an inverter off his Chevy Volt to power his fridge and freezer:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/electric-car-hurricane-dorian-1.5274674?fbclid=IwAR29ajKp3gBsVsgdGniiMv6s9fTgtMRSMvHNoCKnMiCjhIyL8i3D-PgLex0


Not the most elegant setup but worked great none the less.  My question is,
does Vehicle to Grid have any options for home power during outages?  Would
seem to be a great opportunity for EVs, instead of buying a generator use
that money towards an EV and a V2G equipped charger.  Obviously some safety
measures would have to be put in like a bypass switch used in panel fed
generators.  Would probably be even safer than a generator as usually 1-2
people die a year in this province alone from carbon monoxide poisoning
from generators not placed in a well ventilated area.

Thanks
Dan
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Re: V2G - any specs for home power generation during outages?

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Anyone with a Hybrid or EV or plug-in hybrid has all they need in a power
outage for essentials like lights and refrigerator and well pump.  All it
takes is a $150 inverter on the 12v battery for power for a week... (about
1kW average, which also turns o ut to be the USA average home anyway
(24/7/365)...  Though you will have to manage yoru peak loads...

See: http://aprs.org/powerwheels.html

Don't worry aobut the solar source.  All you need is the bottom half of
the picture in an outage.

After a week and there is no gas, then you will need to figure out how to
charge from the sun too.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: EV <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Dan Baker via EV
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 3:28 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Cc: Dan Baker <[hidden email]>
Subject: [EVDL] V2G - any specs for home power generation during outages?

In the wake of Hurricane Dorian, my province Nova Scotia had over 400,000
customers without power. Our home had no power for over 27 hours. Luckily
I have lots of batteries and a generator but many homes did not have a
backup
option and still 60,000 are on Day 4 without.   One gentleman ( a fellow
FB
friend) used an inverter off his Chevy Volt to power his fridge and
freezer:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/electric-car-hurricane-dorian-1
.5274674?fbclid=IwAR29ajKp3gBsVsgdGniiMv6s9fTgtMRSMvHNoCKnMiCjhIyL8i3D-PgL
ex0


Not the most elegant setup but worked great none the less.  My question
is, does Vehicle to Grid have any options for home power during outages?
Would seem to be a great opportunity for EVs, instead of buying a
generator use that money towards an EV and a V2G equipped charger.
Obviously some safety measures would have to be put in like a bypass
switch used in panel fed generators.  Would probably be even safer than a
generator as usually 1-2 people die a year in this province alone from
carbon monoxide poisoning from generators not placed in a well ventilated
area.

Thanks
Dan
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Re: V2G - any specs for home power generation during outages?

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Thanks Cor for the info.  Maybe someday a revision to V2G will allow this,
doesn't seem like much of a change to make it happen. I understand why Grid
tie solar isnt setup this way, a passing cloud could easily drop output
below the power required, what happens at night, too many variables. But an
EV would supply steady power output.

Cheers
Dan

On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 5:54 PM Cor van de Water <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Dan,
>
>
>
> One word – no.
>
>
>
> Typically V2G or V2H is acting exacly like a Solar inverter, meaning that
> it can deliver power when there is already AC power to begin with. The
> reason is that it is designed for load support (brownout protection) for
> short periods of time where the grid gets overloaded. When the grid fails,
> the charging station will shut down and not even attempt to connect to the
> car.
>
>
>
> In theory the car is capable of generating a micro grid and in addition
> you find this function on some inverters that connect to the Nissan Leaf DC
> Fast Charge port (CHAdeMO) while the Combo port is in standardization to
> allow bidirectional power transfer. This type of inverter is “island”, so
> it cannot connect to the grid, but you can generate power, it simply uses
> the car battery as backup battery.
>
>
>
> I have seen a few people who connect a UPS to a Prius Hybrid battery,
> allowing more than the ~800W of AC power, though typically you do not need
> a lot of power to keep the fridge going, if you can do without electric
> heat.
>
> As soon as you want to run a microwave or water cooker or electric coffee
> maker, you need more than 1kW inverter. Having a gas stove, a BBQ or
> similar non-electric powered cooker is helpful if you like to have warm
> food or drink during a power outage…
>
> Cor.
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Dan Baker via EV <[hidden email]>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, September 11, 2019 12:37 PM
> *To: *Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
> *Cc: *Dan Baker <[hidden email]>
> *Subject: *[EVDL] V2G - any specs for home power generation during
> outages?
>
>
>
> In the wake of Hurricane Dorian, my province Nova Scotia had over 400,000
>
> customers without power. Our home had no power for over 27 hours. Luckily I
>
> have lots of batteries and a generator but many homes did not have a backup
>
> option and still 60,000 are on Day 4 without.   One gentleman ( a fellow FB
>
> friend) used an inverter off his Chevy Volt to power his fridge and
> freezer:
>
>
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/electric-car-hurricane-dorian-1.5274674?fbclid=IwAR29ajKp3gBsVsgdGniiMv6s9fTgtMRSMvHNoCKnMiCjhIyL8i3D-PgLex0
>
>
>
>
>
> Not the most elegant setup but worked great none the less.  My question is,
>
> does Vehicle to Grid have any options for home power during outages?  Would
>
> seem to be a great opportunity for EVs, instead of buying a generator use
>
> that money towards an EV and a V2G equipped charger.  Obviously some safety
>
> measures would have to be put in like a bypass switch used in panel fed
>
> generators.  Would probably be even safer than a generator as usually 1-2
>
> people die a year in this province alone from carbon monoxide poisoning
>
> from generators not placed in a well ventilated area.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Dan
>
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>
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> http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190911/decc5665/attachment.html
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>
> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
>
> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: V2G - any specs for home power generation during outages?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Dan Baker wrote:

> ...One gentleman ( a fellow FB
> friend) used an inverter off his Chevy Volt to power his fridge and freezer:
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/electric-car-hurricane-dorian-1.5274674?fbclid=IwAR29ajKp3gBsVsgdGniiMv6s9fTgtMRSMvHNoCKnMiCjhIyL8i3D-PgLex0

In that article:

> He used a pool noodle to protect the wires running out of the windows, and the elastic band around the gear shift button to prevent the car from shutting off automatically.

What gear shift button is that?


Len Moskowitz
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Re: V2G - any specs for home power generation during outages?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Hi Folks,

The next version of ISO 15118 will include V2G. Usual scenarios are: 
Home/business Island, Camping, and Grid Stabilization.
A lot of this came from Japan, where they have strong interest in V2G
(especially after Fukushima).  Note that CHAdeMO already has V2G.

Cheers, Peter

On 9/11/19 3:36 PM, Dan Baker via EV wrote:

> Thanks Cor for the info.  Maybe someday a revision to V2G will allow this,
> doesn't seem like much of a change to make it happen. I understand why Grid
> tie solar isnt setup this way, a passing cloud could easily drop output
> below the power required, what happens at night, too many variables. But an
> EV would supply steady power output.
>
> Cheers
> Dan
>
> On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 5:54 PM Cor van de Water <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Dan,
>>
>>
>>
>> One word – no.
>>
>>
>>
>> Typically V2G or V2H is acting exacly like a Solar inverter, meaning that
>> it can deliver power when there is already AC power to begin with. The
>> reason is that it is designed for load support (brownout protection) for
>> short periods of time where the grid gets overloaded. When the grid fails,
>> the charging station will shut down and not even attempt to connect to the
>> car.
>>
>>
>>
>> In theory the car is capable of generating a micro grid and in addition
>> you find this function on some inverters that connect to the Nissan Leaf DC
>> Fast Charge port (CHAdeMO) while the Combo port is in standardization to
>> allow bidirectional power transfer. This type of inverter is “island”, so
>> it cannot connect to the grid, but you can generate power, it simply uses
>> the car battery as backup battery.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have seen a few people who connect a UPS to a Prius Hybrid battery,
>> allowing more than the ~800W of AC power, though typically you do not need
>> a lot of power to keep the fridge going, if you can do without electric
>> heat.
>>
>> As soon as you want to run a microwave or water cooker or electric coffee
>> maker, you need more than 1kW inverter. Having a gas stove, a BBQ or
>> similar non-electric powered cooker is helpful if you like to have warm
>> food or drink during a power outage…
>>
>> Cor.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Dan Baker via EV <[hidden email]>
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, September 11, 2019 12:37 PM
>> *To: *Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
>> *Cc: *Dan Baker <[hidden email]>
>> *Subject: *[EVDL] V2G - any specs for home power generation during
>> outages?
>>
>>
>>
>> In the wake of Hurricane Dorian, my province Nova Scotia had over 400,000
>>
>> customers without power. Our home had no power for over 27 hours. Luckily I
>>
>> have lots of batteries and a generator but many homes did not have a backup
>>
>> option and still 60,000 are on Day 4 without.   One gentleman ( a fellow FB
>>
>> friend) used an inverter off his Chevy Volt to power his fridge and
>> freezer:
>>
>>
>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/electric-car-hurricane-dorian-1.5274674?fbclid=IwAR29ajKp3gBsVsgdGniiMv6s9fTgtMRSMvHNoCKnMiCjhIyL8i3D-PgLex0
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Not the most elegant setup but worked great none the less.  My question is,
>>
>> does Vehicle to Grid have any options for home power during outages?  Would
>>
>> seem to be a great opportunity for EVs, instead of buying a generator use
>>
>> that money towards an EV and a V2G equipped charger.  Obviously some safety
>>
>> measures would have to be put in like a bypass switch used in panel fed
>>
>> generators.  Would probably be even safer than a generator as usually 1-2
>>
>> people die a year in this province alone from carbon monoxide poisoning
>>
>> from generators not placed in a well ventilated area.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>>
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>
>> URL: <
>> http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190911/decc5665/attachment.html
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>
>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
>>
>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: V2G - any specs for home power generation during outages?

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I'm assuming the little detent lever that allows you to move the shifter
from P to D/N/R.  I guess there is a small micro switch that registers when
it is pressed and keeps the car on?

On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 9:25 PM moskowitz <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Dan Baker wrote:
>
> > ...One gentleman ( a fellow FB
> > friend) used an inverter off his Chevy Volt to power his fridge and
> freezer:
> >
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/electric-car-hurricane-dorian-1.5274674?fbclid=IwAR29ajKp3gBsVsgdGniiMv6s9fTgtMRSMvHNoCKnMiCjhIyL8i3D-PgLex0
>
> In that article:
>
> > He used a pool noodle to protect the wires running out of the windows,
> and the elastic band around the gear shift button to prevent the car from
> shutting off automatically.
>
> What gear shift button is that?
>
>
> Len Moskowitz
>
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Re: V2G - any specs for home power generation during outages?

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Why not keep it in Drive or Neutral with the parking brake on if that is the problem…

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dan Baker via EV
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2019 5:51 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Dan Baker
Subject: Re: [EVDL] V2G - any specs for home power generation during outages?

I'm assuming the little detent lever that allows you to move the shifter
from P to D/N/R.  I guess there is a small micro switch that registers when
it is pressed and keeps the car on?

On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 9:25 PM moskowitz <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Dan Baker wrote:
>
> > ...One gentleman ( a fellow FB
> > friend) used an inverter off his Chevy Volt to power his fridge and
> freezer:
> >
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/electric-car-hurricane-dorian-1.5274674?fbclid=IwAR29ajKp3gBsVsgdGniiMv6s9fTgtMRSMvHNoCKnMiCjhIyL8i3D-PgLex0
>
> In that article:
>
> > He used a pool noodle to protect the wires running out of the windows,
> and the elastic band around the gear shift button to prevent the car from
> shutting off automatically.
>
> What gear shift button is that?
>
>
> Len Moskowitz
>
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