Volt revisited

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
28 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Volt revisited

gottdi
I am not impressed with the Volt. At first I was but after reading all the chatter and seeing and reading reports I am not impressed. Here is a clip from one:

The Volt concept promises all-electric gas-free driving for 40-mile stretches, and extended driving range up to 600 miles

Well I hate to say but my TDI does this good. The EV-1 did 150 miles per charge. What is up with this 40 mile per charge garbage? Does this thing weigh as much as a hummer or what?

I am currently reading about the nLTO Lithium Battery Technology. Sounds good but expensive from what I have read so far.

: )

Pete
http://onegreenev.blogspot.com/
No need to wait any longer. You can now buy one off the shelf. You can still build one too.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Volt revisited

David Hrivnak-2
I am sorry but for me this is a VAST improvement over the EV1.  I need a car that can go 600 plus miles a day.  Electric around town is great but if I can not do a highway drive that is a show stopper.  Flying is just not a practical option for a family trip.

-----Original Message-----
From: gottdi <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:58 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [EVDL]  Volt revisited


I am not impressed with the Volt. At first I was but after reading all the
chatter and seeing and reading reports I am not impressed. Here is a clip
from one:

The Volt concept promises all-electric gas-free driving for 40-mile
stretches, and extended driving range up to 600 miles

Well I hate to say but my TDI does this good. The EV-1 did 150 miles per
charge. What is up with this 40 mile per charge garbage? Does this thing
weigh as much as a hummer or what?

I am currently reading about the nLTO Lithium Battery Technology. Sounds
good but expensive from what I have read so far.

: )

Pete
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Volt-revisited-tf4882219s25542.html#a13972256
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Volt revisited

gottdi
Then what you need is the Prius, Camry Hybrid, Honda Hybrid, or just  
pick up a nice VW TDI and run bio in it. That will net you the  
mileage and fuel economy you seek. Hands down. Can't argue with that.  
At least with the TDI and B100 you are using carbon neutral fuel. Oh  
yea! the TDI is not a slug either.

: )


On Nov 27, 2007, at 7:44 AM, David Hrivnak wrote:

> I need a car that can go 600 plus miles a day.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
http://onegreenev.blogspot.com/
No need to wait any longer. You can now buy one off the shelf. You can still build one too.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Volt revisited

Zeke Yewdall
In reply to this post by David Hrivnak-2
I'd have to say the opposite -- the volt is a step backwards compared
to the EV1 -- I already have a car that can do 600 miles plus a
day..... if I put fuel in it.  But, for my daily 50 or 60 mile
commute, I don't want to be having to put fuel in -- the EV1 meets
that, but it doesn't appear that the Volt does....

Z

On Nov 27, 2007 8:44 AM, David Hrivnak <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am sorry but for me this is a VAST improvement over the EV1.  I need a car that can go 600 plus miles a day.  Electric around town is great but if I can not do a highway drive that is a show stopper.  Flying is just not a practical option for a family trip.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gottdi <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:58 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [EVDL]  Volt revisited
>
>
> I am not impressed with the Volt. At first I was but after reading all the
> chatter and seeing and reading reports I am not impressed. Here is a clip
> from one:
>
> The Volt concept promises all-electric gas-free driving for 40-mile
> stretches, and extended driving range up to 600 miles
>
> Well I hate to say but my TDI does this good. The EV-1 did 150 miles per
> charge. What is up with this 40 mile per charge garbage? Does this thing
> weigh as much as a hummer or what?
>
> I am currently reading about the nLTO Lithium Battery Technology. Sounds
> good but expensive from what I have read so far.
>
> : )
>
> Pete
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Volt-revisited-tf4882219s25542.html#a13972256
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Volt revisited

gottdi
In reply to this post by David Hrivnak-2
How can that be! It does not even exist yet. When they did the EV-1  
at least they did not go around boasting about it until they had it  
ready to market and it was a success. A little gen in the trunk and  
you now have a hybrid. How cool would that have been. They should  
have kept the EV-1 Line and improved upon it over the years. They did  
drop the ball and now they are paying but worst of all they are  
strutting around like cocky roosters in a hen house boasting about  
something that does not even exist. Nice words but we have heard them  
before. At least the developers of the EV-1 did what they proved. Now  
it's dead and some other rooster is crowing up a storm. The volt stinks.


On Nov 27, 2007, at 7:44 AM, David Hrivnak wrote:

> this is a VAST improvement over the EV1

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
http://onegreenev.blogspot.com/
No need to wait any longer. You can now buy one off the shelf. You can still build one too.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Volt revisited

Bugzilla from kaidokert@gmail.com
On Nov 27, 2007 6:04 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
> How can that be! It does not even exist yet. When they did the EV-1
> at least they did not go around boasting about it until they had it
> ready to market and it was a success. A little gen in the trunk and
> you now have a hybrid. How cool would that have been. They should

There actually was a little turbine gen in the trunk of at least one EV1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV1#EV1_series_hybrid

-kert

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Volt revisited

EVDL Administrator
In reply to this post by gottdi
On 27 Nov 2007 at 7:58, [hidden email] wrote:

> Then what you need is the Prius, Camry Hybrid, Honda Hybrid, or just  
> pick up a nice VW TDI and run bio in it.

Remember, this is a list for EVs.  It's fine to say "an EV probably won't
handle your needs," but I don't think we need to promote particular ICEs or
certain alt-fuel agendas.

Thanks.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Volt revisited

storm connors
In reply to this post by Bugzilla from kaidokert@gmail.com
You are missing the point of the Volt. The current hybrids are 100%
gasoline powered. The mileage is somewhat improved primarily by
eliminating idling and some recovery of deceleration energy. Really
pointless.

Unless GM goes bankrupt first (a distinct possibility), the Volt will
be produced. This will be a true EV. The 40 mile range on batteries
was selected to satisfy a large percentage of commuting requirements.
Putting in a bigger pack costs more $ and adds weight. It doesn't
matter what the range is, it isn't enough for the typical buyer. They
had to include the range extender in order to sell them in volume.

You can argue the logic of the typical car buyer is flawed, that 100
mile range or 150 mile range or whatever is enough, but that won't
sell cars. If a significant number of buyers discover that they are
never putting fuel in their car, the next one they buy might be all
electric.

Think of it as an EV with training wheels.

Lamenting the fate of the EV1 is a waste of bandwidth. It took GM 10
years to see the light. If they had it to redo they would have
continued development of the EV1. But this is now. We should get
behind their effort. Aren't they doing what we want to see done?

On Nov 27, 2007 11:15 AM, Kaido Kert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Nov 27, 2007 6:04 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > How can that be! It does not even exist yet. When they did the EV-1
> > at least they did not go around boasting about it until they had it
> > ready to market and it was a success. A little gen in the trunk and
> > you now have a hybrid. How cool would that have been. They should
>
> There actually was a little turbine gen in the trunk of at least one EV1
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV1#EV1_series_hybrid
>
> -kert
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Volt revisited

gottdi
In reply to this post by Bugzilla from kaidokert@gmail.com
But not used for getting that 120 mile range. Emergency charging only.

Pete

On Nov 27, 2007, at 8:15 AM, Kaido Kert wrote:

> On Nov 27, 2007 6:04 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> How can that be! It does not even exist yet. When they did the EV-1
>> at least they did not go around boasting about it until they had it
>> ready to market and it was a success. A little gen in the trunk and
>> you now have a hybrid. How cool would that have been. They should
>
> There actually was a little turbine gen in the trunk of at least  
> one EV1
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV1#EV1_series_hybrid
>
> -kert
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
http://onegreenev.blogspot.com/
No need to wait any longer. You can now buy one off the shelf. You can still build one too.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Volt revisited

Zeke Yewdall
In reply to this post by storm connors
On Nov 27, 2007 9:55 AM, storm connors <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Lamenting the fate of the EV1 is a waste of bandwidth. It took GM 10
> years to see the light. If they had it to redo they would have
> continued development of the EV1. But this is now. We should get
> behind their effort. Aren't they doing what we want to see done?

Maybe....  but I guess I have the same opinion of GM as some of the
list members have of Thundersky -- they've irreversibly proven that
they don't give a hoot about their customers, so I'm just cheering for
them to go bankrupt.

Z

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Volt revisited, an' More Stuff.

Bob Rice-2
In reply to this post by gottdi
  Hi EVerybody;

    I You Tubed the Volt, what a Joke! The one where the woman got in and
drove it out of the driveway. Ha Ha. Sounded like a Chicago, North Shore and
Milwaukee Intterurban Railroad car, or a Chicago, South Shore and South Bend
Train, circa 1928!! As a trolley fan, sounded nice Ha Ha!!You Chicagoland
guys USED to hear the sounds of Heavy electric rail. Or the Illinois
Central's 1500 volt "Green Cars"All fond memories. IF that gal had my Jetta,
she coulda unplugged it, flipped the flap shut, on the gas filler, camera
lingering on my " Boycott OPEC Use electric fuel"sticker, climbed in, put
'er in second and glid out the driveway silently! And gone down the road at
35-40 mph, out of the pix!Hell! The Jetta is a better LOOKING car than the
ReVOLT, anyhow. She coulda picked up 3 of her friends in the Jetta, to go
shopping or to refinance her SUV( Mc Mansion) house. I think the Volt is
UGLY as sin, anyhow. Now IF they had taken the EV-1 and fitted it with a
small gas jenny for AFTER you have gone OVER 100 miles and needed a boost?
IF you could leave it at home UNTIL you needed the range and you could stuff
it aboard? A EV-2 MIGHT be a 4 door, and redesigned to have less tunnel down
the middle, but still have a good C of D. EV-1 LOOKED nice, after all, form
follows function. A EV-3 Wagon? But none dare call a Station Wagon a Station
Wagon, nowadaze!

    But ya all know General Murders is gunna stonewall the electric car as
long as they can. Gas is only going higher, as you read this it MUST be 100
bux a barrel for oil, today?Looking at Lutz and his ilk I think" Would YOU
buy a used car from this guy? Ha Ha, or NEW car from them, ether?

   The only way any significent change will be another 911, or Pearl Harbor,
WAR, of our starting ,when the Oil Folks over where it is HOT all the time
say;" Screw You" and turn off the taps. Very few planes flying. Amtrak
struggling to keep a 1940's system going. Oh! we're all set in the Least
Coast where the lines are electric now. BNSF and the Union Pathetic
stringing up catenery, GM's Electro Motive div. building electric
locomotives. Well, GM spun off EMD a few years ago, and the engines will
come from Canada as they closed La Grange , Ill. plant "Home of the Diesel
Locomotive".They should turn that place into a museum! Been there. Awesome
seeing Diseasels born! Of course Generous Electric could build electrics
again, too.

    Back on topic a little. Maybe Lee Hart will have Sunrise reserected9Keep
those checks going!) before GM gets it's shit together?Or Jerry Dycus  has
Freedom going? Freedom is a nitch market, but to him a thousand car order
would be a HUGH one. To GM they wouldn't bother?We HAD 1000 EV-1's
already.Tesla?We'll see.He's having issues, too. But they have money to
throw at them, big time!

    The Electric's time is hear, IF we can overcome politics, get all the
Good Stuff together, and get it to market before the apoloplipse?

   Somebody commented that changing to electric COULD wreck the "industry"
Well, teamsters wrecked some of the first steam locomotives, reasoning that
they would put them out of work?The buggy whip guyz had to change, too. when
Auyto-mobiles came on the scene, too. The folks that make my beloved 78 rpm
records HAD to change 50 years ago. Of course THEY have learned well; The
Format of the Week" concept. CD's, DVD's, stuff changes every few minutes.
But how much of this crap will WORK in 100 years from now, like my Victor
1907 records will STILL play? I get the styluses(needles) to play them on
line, ironicly enough.You can still BUY a 78 rpm turntable for your
listining pleasure!O.T. a tad, here, go to
http:/loudcity.com/station/440.aspx , click on "Radio Dismuke". Enjoy the
snappy upbeat tunes, good for building/driving electrics by, Jettas to
Acelas!I am happy with something I like to pass it on.Gotta love Internet
Radio!Scratch free 78's 24/7 what's not to love?He throws in ads, vintage,
too. good for a grin, Fords and Shell gas<g>!While we were talking about
life changes. What about the typewriter folks? With the net? I never learned
HOW to type, I have scene guyz use BOTH hands<g>!Hafta, nowadaze!

    I hope to see a new magazine on the newsstands at, the airport or Penn
Station. "Racing EV's". You buy it and see the two page centerfold type ad
for Hy Torque Racing motors,Jim has hired 37 MORE guyz to meet demand!! same
for Cafe Electric Million amp Zillas. Now used by the US Navy in their
newest, fastest cruise ships! All the names that are household words have
gone national.We will have enough magazine filling stuff EVentually.NEDRA
goes in the 'zine biz?I mean look at all the car GO mags now? Car Craft,
sitting here.A listing, two pages of new strips opening in residental areas.
ELECTRIC only. Drawing crowds out for a fun day.Alota new created work, for
leftover Midas guyz?There will be plenty of work out there in my Perfect
World. You will ALWAYS need body shop guyz to streighten out bent electrics,
too?Tires, front alinment work, Custom shops, all that that is in place,
now.

    You Tube is our best friend! With the Volt garbage you can watch the
Good EV stuff; guyz, like Forken Swift, common folks doing electrics.Of
course Killa Cycle gets alot of play-time, too.You can waste ALL day on You
Tube. 3 years ago there was NO You Tube at all. So send yur stuff in, put it
in front of the World! Beats the shit out of the printing press! YT just
links along. Interesting to read the "comments" stuff, too.YT goes all over
the world, like the List. Democracy in action!

    Seeya

    Bob

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Volt revisited

storm connors
In reply to this post by Zeke Yewdall
The point is, this is an opportunity to make EVs a commodity. Buying
parts at retail and doing conversions won't do it. GM is looking at
60,000 for the first year's production. Think about what that could do
for the price of battery packs.

-- they've irreversibly proven that
> they don't give a hoot about their customers, so I'm just cheering for
> them to go bankrupt.

This is a rather harsh comment. They certainly care about their
customers. They rely on them for future sales. The old Chinese curse
"may your wishes come true" comes to mind.

I wouldn't buy GM stock, but I'd like to be first in line for a Volt.
My first new car since 1964.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Volt revisited

Dan Frederiksen-2
In reply to this post by gottdi
Pete, your position on the Volt is so wrong I usually get angry but I
will try to use calm words instead in the hope it will have similar impact.

the Volt drive philosophy is nothing short of perfect.
it has the ability to drive battery electric for the bulk of your
driving while keeping battery cost down and allowing you the freedom of
unlimited range should you need it. please do think about it and never
ever compare it to your *explicit deleted* TDI.

however surprising it is that GM should get it completely right after
all they've done, they have. or almost.
the batteries will allegedly have double the range (~128km) and they
will just use half the capacity of it presumably to make it live longer.
I'm not sure that's entirely optimal but I'm open to the possibility
that it's wise to take battery life out of the experience of the buyer.

while the parameters of the Volt could be tweaked slightly it is
wonderfully close to perfect with regards to motor configuration.
it is this configuration you will see in the future in all cars short of
something radical happening.
it's so right in fact that tesla should make a version of their roadster
with the same series hybrid config.
I'm expecting that they will do that for their sedan.

one thing I would personally change is the size of the genset. I would
make it a bare minimum because small is lighter and often more fuel
efficient. can also be made quieter. I have no particular expertise in
combustion engines but maybe a turbine could be made really small and
still have enough power for highway driving.
I'd say there is more than a little business opportunity for the first
maker of a nice small elegant genset for cars.

but don't ever knock the Volt hybrid config because that was a very
decisive moment in automotive history. a real EV with a backup to take
away the range concern and keep battery cost low. While the revolution
was won with WKTEC and AIT and the Tesla Roadster, the Volt signified
the total collapse of the resistance to EVs. some of the car makers
don't know it yet but it is done.

The speed with which it will be implemented is however not set and that
is where we can make a difference by continued public pressure.

Dan


gottdi wrote:

> I am not impressed with the Volt. At first I was but after reading all the
> chatter and seeing and reading reports I am not impressed. Here is a clip
> from one:
>
> The Volt concept promises all-electric gas-free driving for 40-mile
> stretches, and extended driving range up to 600 miles
>
> Well I hate to say but my TDI does this good. The EV-1 did 150 miles per
> charge. What is up with this 40 mile per charge garbage? Does this thing
> weigh as much as a hummer or what?
>
> I am currently reading about the nLTO Lithium Battery Technology. Sounds
> good but expensive from what I have read so far.
>
> : )
>
> Pete
>  

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Volt revisited

gottdi
I don't agree that my position is wrong. What may be wrong is how I  
stated a few things. From the time I got hooked on diesel I had the  
thought of making a nice electric/diesel hybrid. The problem is  
getting a decent little turbo diesel engine here in the states. At  
this point it must be imported from europe. Any way to move along  
here. Take the small diesel and hook it to a gen for your onboard  
power. Take a decent electric motor for the drive and a nice double  
set of batteries for power. Now this car won't be a screaming demon  
or anything like that but it will move briskly. I had even thought of  
using those flat dc or ac motors and attach directly to the wheels.  
Two of them and control them as one. It was just a thought for space  
saving. It could work. While on the road using one bank of batteries  
you'd be just driving battery only. Then when that first bank of  
batteries got to a specific voltage you could have it switch over to  
the next bank of batteries and start the diesel genset and begin  
charging the first bank of batteries. When the second bank got to the  
predetermined voltage it would switch again and that bank would begin  
to charge while running off the first bank again. I do know that over  
a specific distance you would need to stop and allow the gen to  
charge up to full both banks of batteries. It would however allow  
extended distances and still be fully electric driven. Not unlike the  
Volt design. A dual pack is the only way to allow batteries to charge  
while driving. It can be done. However it is still dependent upon  
gasoline or diesel and the true purpose of the EV is to not have that  
in the equation. It is to go as green as possible and still go a  
decent distance. Gas has it's place, series hybrids have their place,  
diesel has it's place and EV has it's place. My idea is to go as  
green as possible and hence the diesel and use SVO or Bio in place of  
diesel. It is still better and greener and more carbon  neutral. I  
would rather go full EV and I blasted the Volt for not going that  
route. I guess its a step in the right direction but please don't  
tout it until its a real fully functioning item. Again, the EV-1 was  
full electric and had grown to a range of 120 + miles per charge.  
Damn good. The other slam was why scrap a successful item when they  
could have allowed it to grow over all these years. That is where  
they messed up. Not that they did not create a good thing. World  
changing but not when it's scrapped and what we see here is not  
another EV but another hybrid. I want to see a full EV on the market  
as good or better than the EV-1.

Even today the EV-1 would be ahead of it's time. Just think of what  
it would have become with 10 + years of full time growth? Nothing  
like the Volt I'm sure. The Volt will work but it's just another  
innovative hybrid. It will be interesting to see if they actually  
bring it out of vaporware state and into a working model. I'd rather  
not be fed hype in the off chance it does not fly as expected.

It is a dangerous thing to boast so far in advance. If you're going  
to boast let's see some real world stuff. Nothing has been seen since  
the death of the EV-1. Or is it sooooo secret that they have been  
doing work but only now coming out with the next generation EV  
platform to better suit the american public? Maybe! Maybe Not!

I am actually not angry either because I know I can build something  
to use while we all wait. That is the cool thing.

Pete
: )



On Nov 27, 2007, at 7:20 PM, Dan Frederiksen wrote:

> your position on the Volt is so wrong

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
http://onegreenev.blogspot.com/
No need to wait any longer. You can now buy one off the shelf. You can still build one too.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Volt revisited

mos6507-2
In reply to this post by Zeke Yewdall
GM's conviction to move ahead full steam with the Volt, as tentative as it
seems to us, looks like a huge gamble to the other automakers.  It's
equivalent to blasting your pieces aggressively towards the queen in the
early moves of chess.  The automakers are having to either fast-track their
own plugin/EV in order to hedge their bets or dig in their heels and defend
the status quo as Toyota, Honda, and VW have.  So by the time the Volt comes
out there may be other vehicles like the iMiev that give you the range you
want, and for that you may have to give GM some credit for.

-----Original Message-----
I'd have to say the opposite -- the volt is a step backwards compared to the
EV1 -- I already have a car that can do 600 miles plus a day..... if I put
fuel in it.  But, for my daily 50 or 60 mile commute, I don't want to be
having to put fuel in -- the EV1 meets that, but it doesn't appear that the
Volt does....


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Tesla is stubborn

mos6507-2
In reply to this post by Dan Frederiksen-2
Not without a corporate change of direction.  They've made it very clear
that their whole reason to exist is to make zero emissions cars.  They are
stubborn purists on this point.  They also aren't even considering switching
to lifepos which I think is a blunder that will come back to haunt them.

-----Original Message-----
I'm expecting that they will do that for their sedan.


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Volt revisited

Dan Frederiksen-2
In reply to this post by gottdi
You don't say it specifically but it seems that you don't like the Volt
because the specs they propose are not difficult to achieve. is that it?
It is not difficult. nor does it need to be to be great. EVs are
relatively easy to make.

You say that a dual pack is the only way to have a combustion engine
recharge during driving. I don't believe that's true though. nothing
wrong with the generator starting while driving and taking over the load
of the batteries while also charging them a little. it doesn't even
require switching connections or anything. just apply the  generator
power over the battery terminals and its connected to both the
controller and the batteries. the surplus of the generator is naturally
taken by the batteries I believe.

Try to think of the Volt as the EV it actually is. the generator is the
sleeping bear that you shoudl try not to wake up. as long as it sleeps
it's a pure battery electric vehicle. completely different from parallel
hybrids like the prius which are just ICE cars with an electric
clutch/gearbox. it 'always' runs on gas. the Volt 'never' runs on gas.

To put it another way, even given the same price I would choose a Volt
like config over an EV1 config. however good 200km range is it means you
can never go anywhere that's further away than 100km without charging.
and that's ideally. if there are hills and wind it's less. that's quite
a limit having hanging over your head. try to understand the brilliance
of the series hybrid. socalled PHEV.

Dan



[hidden email] wrote:

> A dual pack is the only way to allow batteries to charge  
> while driving. It can be done. However it is still dependent upon  
> gasoline or diesel and the true purpose of the EV is to not have that  
> in the equation. It is to go as green as possible and still go a  
> decent distance. Gas has it's place, series hybrids have their place,  
> diesel has it's place and EV has it's place. My idea is to go as  
> green as possible and hence the diesel and use SVO or Bio in place of  
> diesel. It is still better and greener and more carbon  neutral. I  
> would rather go full EV and I blasted the Volt for not going that  
> route. I guess its a step in the right direction but please don't  
> tout it until its a real fully functioning item. Again, the EV-1 was  
> full electric and had grown to a range of 120 + miles per charge.  
> Damn good. The other slam was why scrap a successful item when they  
> could have allowed it to grow over all these years. That is where  
> they messed up. Not that they did not create a good thing. World  
> changing but not when it's scrapped and what we see here is not  
> another EV but another hybrid. I want to see a full EV on the market  
> as good or better than the EV-1.
>
> Even today the EV-1 would be ahead of it's time. Just think of what  
> it would have become with 10 + years of full time growth? Nothing  
> like the Volt I'm sure. The Volt will work but it's just another  
> innovative hybrid. It will be interesting to see if they actually  
> bring it out of vaporware state and into a working model. I'd rather  
> not be fed hype in the off chance it does not fly as expected.
>
> It is a dangerous thing to boast so far in advance. If you're going  
> to boast let's see some real world stuff. Nothing has been seen since  
> the death of the EV-1. Or is it sooooo secret that they have been  
> doing work but only now coming out with the next generation EV  
> platform to better suit the american public? Maybe! Maybe Not!
>
> I am actually not angry either because I know I can build something  
> to use while we all wait. That is the cool thing.
>
> Pete
> : )
>
>
>
> On Nov 27, 2007, at 7:20 PM, Dan Frederiksen wrote:
>
>  
>> your position on the Volt is so wrong
>>    
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>  

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Volt revisited

gottdi
In reply to this post by mos6507-2
iMiev ???? I will google that one. I give GM loads of credit. That  
EV-1 was soooo far advanced and I'd consider it still. The EV-1 was  
so good that is why GM has taken such a big hit. It's not that it was  
not good nor ground breaking but that they killed it for the public.  
Ground breaking is not even the best words to use. World changing is  
more like it but if you shoot it you loose.

Apple did that so many times and it is still reeling from those  
blunders. It may be the best but not if you kill it. Others will take  
your work and run with it. Not good for GM.

Pete


On Nov 27, 2007, at 11:47 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> iMiev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
http://onegreenev.blogspot.com/
No need to wait any longer. You can now buy one off the shelf. You can still build one too.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tesla is stubborn

gottdi
In reply to this post by mos6507-2
What is this? Lifepos. I guess I have been missing loads of stuff. Oh  
well, chalk it up to the steep learning curve.

: )
On Nov 27, 2007, at 11:56 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> lifepos

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
http://onegreenev.blogspot.com/
No need to wait any longer. You can now buy one off the shelf. You can still build one too.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tesla is stubborn

Dan Frederiksen-2
LiFePO4, lithium iron phosphate.
a battery chemistry. A123, PHET, Valence, Thundersky have such
batteries. not all LiFePO4 batteries are the same though. there are
nuances of the technology that make a big difference. A123 is the
current best but PHET and Valence are not a lot worse.

Altair Nano is also claiming batteries but yet to be seen. their specs
are bizarrely good.

Dan

[hidden email] wrote:

> What is this? Lifepos. I guess I have been missing loads of stuff. Oh  
> well, chalk it up to the steep learning curve.
>
> : )
> On Nov 27, 2007, at 11:56 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  
>> lifepos
>>    
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>  

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
12