Warp 9 failure

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Warp 9 failure

Andrew Wood
I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to what might be wrong
with my Warp 9.

Ive had it running freestanding in both directions off a 12v battery no
problem.

Today we've tried running it with the transmission connected up and the
driving wheels off the ground. Initially it went in one directions but
we were getting some vibration from the transmission which we think was
caused by the driveshafts to the wheels catching on the subframe due to
the weight of the wheel.

When we tried it in reverse, nothing. We've now disconnected all the
transmission so the motor is freestanding again but we cant get the
motor to move in either direction. Ive checked with the voltmeter that
theres power there but the motor makes no attempt to move.

Is it possible something has broken inside the Warp 9?

Regards
Andrew

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Re: Warp 9 failure

David Dymaxion
How many amps is it drawing? A clamp on ammeter would tell you. I helped a
friend and a motor power post had cracked causing a similar situation.

If you put the car in gear, can you push the car and spin the motor? That would
prove it is mechanically free.

If you are drawing a low current current, it could be you simply need more volts
and amps. My motor would spin up freely by itself on 12 Volts, but would not
move the car on level ground.




________________________________
From: Andrew Wood <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 9:16:49 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Warp 9 failure

I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to what might be wrong
with my Warp 9.

Ive had it running freestanding in both directions off a 12v battery no
problem.

Today we've tried running it with the transmission connected up and the
driving wheels off the ground. Initially it went in one directions but
we were getting some vibration from the transmission which we think was
caused by the driveshafts to the wheels catching on the subframe due to
the weight of the wheel.

When we tried it in reverse, nothing. We've now disconnected all the
transmission so the motor is freestanding again but we cant get the
motor to move in either direction. Ive checked with the voltmeter that
theres power there but the motor makes no attempt to move.

Is it possible something has broken inside the Warp 9?

Regards
Andrew

_______________________________________________
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Re: Warp 9 failure

Andrew Wood
  can you push the car and spin the motor? That would
prove it is mechanically free.



Yes, well theres no gearbox its direct drive at the moment, but I can
turn the wheels by hand and the motor turns. At present though we've
disconnected it again so theres no load at all on the motor and its as
dead as a duck.

With the multimeter, Im getting continuty through the motor.



On 12/09/10 16:50, David Dymaxion wrote:

> How many amps is it drawing? A clamp on ammeter would tell you. I helped a
> friend and a motor power post had cracked causing a similar situation.
>
> If you put the car in gear, can you push the car and spin the motor? That would
> prove it is mechanically free.
>
> If you are drawing a low current current, it could be you simply need more volts
> and amps. My motor would spin up freely by itself on 12 Volts, but would not
> move the car on level ground.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Andrew Wood<[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 9:16:49 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Warp 9 failure
>
> I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to what might be wrong
> with my Warp 9.
>
> Ive had it running freestanding in both directions off a 12v battery no
> problem.
>
> Today we've tried running it with the transmission connected up and the
> driving wheels off the ground. Initially it went in one directions but
> we were getting some vibration from the transmission which we think was
> caused by the driveshafts to the wheels catching on the subframe due to
> the weight of the wheel.
>
> When we tried it in reverse, nothing. We've now disconnected all the
> transmission so the motor is freestanding again but we cant get the
> motor to move in either direction. Ive checked with the voltmeter that
> theres power there but the motor makes no attempt to move.
>
> Is it possible something has broken inside the Warp 9?
>
> Regards
> Andrew
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>
>
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Re: Warp 9 failure

Roland Wiench
In reply to this post by Andrew Wood
First, put the transmission in neutral or with no transmission, then try
running the motor on 12 volts, the ampere will surge to about 30 to 50 amps
and then come back down.

I built a little test set that has a standard auto 12 volt meter and amp
meter that is mounted in a plastic box with leads coming out of it.  I
always bench test any motor motor before I install it.

If the motor does not rotate, then remove the power leads, but leave the
motor jumper in place and take a resistance reading.  If there is no
continuity, then remove the motor jumper and read between each motor
terminal.  If there is no continuity on one set of the terminals, then pull
the brush screen and check the brush leads going to the commentator and/or
field wires.  You then can determine where the problem is.

When I received a new motor, I do these checks plus check the motor
terminals to the motor case.  I record the resistance and 10 years later, I
will perform these test again plus the motor maintenance.  Lets say the
motor terminal to ground reads over 20 meg ohms when new and when I reads
about 50 K ohms, it is time to clean the motor because of the brush dust
tracking.

If you had it connected to the load as you said, then the problem could be
as David said. The ampere on 12 volt under this type of load could be 600 to
800  amperes.  Applying 180 volts to a Warp 9 connected to a transmission in
neutral is about 50 motor ampere for me, so at 12 volts this would be about
750 amperes.

Roland






----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Warp 9 failure


> How many amps is it drawing? A clamp on ammeter would tell you. I helped a
> friend and a motor power post had cracked causing a similar situation.
>
> If you put the car in gear, can you push the car and spin the motor? That
> would
> prove it is mechanically free.
>
> If you are drawing a low current current, it could be you simply need more
> volts
> and amps. My motor would spin up freely by itself on 12 Volts, but would
> not
> move the car on level ground.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Andrew Wood <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 9:16:49 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Warp 9 failure
>
> I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to what might be wrong
> with my Warp 9.
>
> Ive had it running freestanding in both directions off a 12v battery no
> problem.
>
> Today we've tried running it with the transmission connected up and the
> driving wheels off the ground. Initially it went in one directions but
> we were getting some vibration from the transmission which we think was
> caused by the driveshafts to the wheels catching on the subframe due to
> the weight of the wheel.
>
> When we tried it in reverse, nothing. We've now disconnected all the
> transmission so the motor is freestanding again but we cant get the
> motor to move in either direction. Ive checked with the voltmeter that
> theres power there but the motor makes no attempt to move.
>
> Is it possible something has broken inside the Warp 9?
>
> Regards
> Andrew
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
>
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Re: Warp 9 failure

Andrew Wood
Thanks Roland I'll perform those tests and report back.

Although I see the point that it may be too much current with the
transmission connected, even though the car is off the ground so its not
pulling the weight of the car. I still dont see why its no longer
working when theres nothing connected to the shaft?


On 12/09/10 17:32, Roland Wiench wrote:

> First, put the transmission in neutral or with no transmission, then try
> running the motor on 12 volts, the ampere will surge to about 30 to 50 amps
> and then come back down.
>
> I built a little test set that has a standard auto 12 volt meter and amp
> meter that is mounted in a plastic box with leads coming out of it.  I
> always bench test any motor motor before I install it.
>
> If the motor does not rotate, then remove the power leads, but leave the
> motor jumper in place and take a resistance reading.  If there is no
> continuity, then remove the motor jumper and read between each motor
> terminal.  If there is no continuity on one set of the terminals, then pull
> the brush screen and check the brush leads going to the commentator and/or
> field wires.  You then can determine where the problem is.
>
> When I received a new motor, I do these checks plus check the motor
> terminals to the motor case.  I record the resistance and 10 years later, I
> will perform these test again plus the motor maintenance.  Lets say the
> motor terminal to ground reads over 20 meg ohms when new and when I reads
> about 50 K ohms, it is time to clean the motor because of the brush dust
> tracking.
>
> If you had it connected to the load as you said, then the problem could be
> as David said. The ampere on 12 volt under this type of load could be 600 to
> 800  amperes.  Applying 180 volts to a Warp 9 connected to a transmission in
> neutral is about 50 motor ampere for me, so at 12 volts this would be about
> 750 amperes.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Dymaxion"<[hidden email]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"<[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Warp 9 failure
>
>
>    
>> How many amps is it drawing? A clamp on ammeter would tell you. I helped a
>> friend and a motor power post had cracked causing a similar situation.
>>
>> If you put the car in gear, can you push the car and spin the motor? That
>> would
>> prove it is mechanically free.
>>
>> If you are drawing a low current current, it could be you simply need more
>> volts
>> and amps. My motor would spin up freely by itself on 12 Volts, but would
>> not
>> move the car on level ground.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Andrew Wood<[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 9:16:49 AM
>> Subject: [EVDL] Warp 9 failure
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to what might be wrong
>> with my Warp 9.
>>
>> Ive had it running freestanding in both directions off a 12v battery no
>> problem.
>>
>> Today we've tried running it with the transmission connected up and the
>> driving wheels off the ground. Initially it went in one directions but
>> we were getting some vibration from the transmission which we think was
>> caused by the driveshafts to the wheels catching on the subframe due to
>> the weight of the wheel.
>>
>> When we tried it in reverse, nothing. We've now disconnected all the
>> transmission so the motor is freestanding again but we cant get the
>> motor to move in either direction. Ive checked with the voltmeter that
>> theres power there but the motor makes no attempt to move.
>>
>> Is it possible something has broken inside the Warp 9?
>>
>> Regards
>> Andrew
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>      
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Re: Warp 9 failure

Mike Nickerson
This seems so obvious that I almost hate to mention it, but is it possible
you have drained your 12V battery?  It sounds like the current draw with the
transmission might be fairly high and could have drained your battery.  Have
you tried charging it and/or making sure it still works OK for some other
high-draw activity?

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Andrew Wood
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 11:08 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Warp 9 failure

Thanks Roland I'll perform those tests and report back.

Although I see the point that it may be too much current with the
transmission connected, even though the car is off the ground so its not
pulling the weight of the car. I still dont see why its no longer working
when theres nothing connected to the shaft?


On 12/09/10 17:32, Roland Wiench wrote:

> First, put the transmission in neutral or with no transmission, then
> try running the motor on 12 volts, the ampere will surge to about 30
> to 50 amps and then come back down.
>
> I built a little test set that has a standard auto 12 volt meter and
> amp meter that is mounted in a plastic box with leads coming out of
> it.  I always bench test any motor motor before I install it.
>
> If the motor does not rotate, then remove the power leads, but leave
> the motor jumper in place and take a resistance reading.  If there is
> no continuity, then remove the motor jumper and read between each
> motor terminal.  If there is no continuity on one set of the
> terminals, then pull the brush screen and check the brush leads going
> to the commentator and/or field wires.  You then can determine where the
problem is.

>
> When I received a new motor, I do these checks plus check the motor
> terminals to the motor case.  I record the resistance and 10 years
> later, I will perform these test again plus the motor maintenance.  
> Lets say the motor terminal to ground reads over 20 meg ohms when new
> and when I reads about 50 K ohms, it is time to clean the motor
> because of the brush dust tracking.
>
> If you had it connected to the load as you said, then the problem
> could be as David said. The ampere on 12 volt under this type of load
> could be 600 to
> 800  amperes.  Applying 180 volts to a Warp 9 connected to a
> transmission in neutral is about 50 motor ampere for me, so at 12
> volts this would be about
> 750 amperes.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Dymaxion"<[hidden email]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"<[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Warp 9 failure
>
>
>    
>> How many amps is it drawing? A clamp on ammeter would tell you. I
>> helped a friend and a motor power post had cracked causing a similar
situation.

>>
>> If you put the car in gear, can you push the car and spin the motor?
>> That would prove it is mechanically free.
>>
>> If you are drawing a low current current, it could be you simply need
>> more volts and amps. My motor would spin up freely by itself on 12
>> Volts, but would not move the car on level ground.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Andrew Wood<[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 9:16:49 AM
>> Subject: [EVDL] Warp 9 failure
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to what might be
>> wrong with my Warp 9.
>>
>> Ive had it running freestanding in both directions off a 12v battery
>> no problem.
>>
>> Today we've tried running it with the transmission connected up and
>> the driving wheels off the ground. Initially it went in one
>> directions but we were getting some vibration from the transmission
>> which we think was caused by the driveshafts to the wheels catching
>> on the subframe due to the weight of the wheel.
>>
>> When we tried it in reverse, nothing. We've now disconnected all the
>> transmission so the motor is freestanding again but we cant get the
>> motor to move in either direction. Ive checked with the voltmeter
>> that theres power there but the motor makes no attempt to move.
>>
>> Is it possible something has broken inside the Warp 9?
>>
>> Regards
>> Andrew
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>      
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> ______________________________________________________________________
>    

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Re: Warp 9 failure

Andrew Wood
Hi Mike

The thought had crossed my mind but when I measured the voltage it was
still around 13v so I assumed it was OK?

Andrew

On 12/09/10 20:04, Mike Nickerson wrote:

> This seems so obvious that I almost hate to mention it, but is it possible
> you have drained your 12V battery?  It sounds like the current draw with the
> transmission might be fairly high and could have drained your battery.  Have
> you tried charging it and/or making sure it still works OK for some other
> high-draw activity?
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
> Of Andrew Wood
> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 11:08 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Warp 9 failure
>
> Thanks Roland I'll perform those tests and report back.
>
> Although I see the point that it may be too much current with the
> transmission connected, even though the car is off the ground so its not
> pulling the weight of the car. I still dont see why its no longer working
> when theres nothing connected to the shaft?
>
>
> On 12/09/10 17:32, Roland Wiench wrote:
>    
>> First, put the transmission in neutral or with no transmission, then
>> try running the motor on 12 volts, the ampere will surge to about 30
>> to 50 amps and then come back down.
>>
>> I built a little test set that has a standard auto 12 volt meter and
>> amp meter that is mounted in a plastic box with leads coming out of
>> it.  I always bench test any motor motor before I install it.
>>
>> If the motor does not rotate, then remove the power leads, but leave
>> the motor jumper in place and take a resistance reading.  If there is
>> no continuity, then remove the motor jumper and read between each
>> motor terminal.  If there is no continuity on one set of the
>> terminals, then pull the brush screen and check the brush leads going
>> to the commentator and/or field wires.  You then can determine where the
>>      
> problem is.
>    
>> When I received a new motor, I do these checks plus check the motor
>> terminals to the motor case.  I record the resistance and 10 years
>> later, I will perform these test again plus the motor maintenance.
>> Lets say the motor terminal to ground reads over 20 meg ohms when new
>> and when I reads about 50 K ohms, it is time to clean the motor
>> because of the brush dust tracking.
>>
>> If you had it connected to the load as you said, then the problem
>> could be as David said. The ampere on 12 volt under this type of load
>> could be 600 to
>> 800  amperes.  Applying 180 volts to a Warp 9 connected to a
>> transmission in neutral is about 50 motor ampere for me, so at 12
>> volts this would be about
>> 750 amperes.
>>
>> Roland
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Dymaxion"<[hidden email]>
>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"<[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Warp 9 failure
>>
>>
>>
>>      
>>> How many amps is it drawing? A clamp on ammeter would tell you. I
>>> helped a friend and a motor power post had cracked causing a similar
>>>        
> situation.
>    
>>> If you put the car in gear, can you push the car and spin the motor?
>>> That would prove it is mechanically free.
>>>
>>> If you are drawing a low current current, it could be you simply need
>>> more volts and amps. My motor would spin up freely by itself on 12
>>> Volts, but would not move the car on level ground.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Andrew Wood<[hidden email]>
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 9:16:49 AM
>>> Subject: [EVDL] Warp 9 failure
>>>
>>> I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to what might be
>>> wrong with my Warp 9.
>>>
>>> Ive had it running freestanding in both directions off a 12v battery
>>> no problem.
>>>
>>> Today we've tried running it with the transmission connected up and
>>> the driving wheels off the ground. Initially it went in one
>>> directions but we were getting some vibration from the transmission
>>> which we think was caused by the driveshafts to the wheels catching
>>> on the subframe due to the weight of the wheel.
>>>
>>> When we tried it in reverse, nothing. We've now disconnected all the
>>> transmission so the motor is freestanding again but we cant get the
>>> motor to move in either direction. Ive checked with the voltmeter
>>> that theres power there but the motor makes no attempt to move.
>>>
>>> Is it possible something has broken inside the Warp 9?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Andrew
>>>
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Re: Warp 9 failure

Peter VanDerWal
What voltage do you read when you hook it up to the motor?
The battery might have a bad cell, they look fully charged with no load
but drop out under load.

> Hi Mike
>
> The thought had crossed my mind but when I measured the voltage it was
> still around 13v so I assumed it was OK?
>
> Andrew
>
> On 12/09/10 20:04, Mike Nickerson wrote:
>> This seems so obvious that I almost hate to mention it, but is it
>> possible
>> you have drained your 12V battery?  It sounds like the current draw with
>> the
>> transmission might be fairly high and could have drained your battery.
>> Have
>> you tried charging it and/or making sure it still works OK for some
>> other
>> high-draw activity?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Andrew Wood
>> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 11:08 AM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Warp 9 failure
>>
>> Thanks Roland I'll perform those tests and report back.
>>
>> Although I see the point that it may be too much current with the
>> transmission connected, even though the car is off the ground so its not
>> pulling the weight of the car. I still dont see why its no longer
>> working
>> when theres nothing connected to the shaft?
>>
>>
>> On 12/09/10 17:32, Roland Wiench wrote:
>>
>>> First, put the transmission in neutral or with no transmission, then
>>> try running the motor on 12 volts, the ampere will surge to about 30
>>> to 50 amps and then come back down.
>>>
>>> I built a little test set that has a standard auto 12 volt meter and
>>> amp meter that is mounted in a plastic box with leads coming out of
>>> it.  I always bench test any motor motor before I install it.
>>>
>>> If the motor does not rotate, then remove the power leads, but leave
>>> the motor jumper in place and take a resistance reading.  If there is
>>> no continuity, then remove the motor jumper and read between each
>>> motor terminal.  If there is no continuity on one set of the
>>> terminals, then pull the brush screen and check the brush leads going
>>> to the commentator and/or field wires.  You then can determine where
>>> the
>>>
>> problem is.
>>
>>> When I received a new motor, I do these checks plus check the motor
>>> terminals to the motor case.  I record the resistance and 10 years
>>> later, I will perform these test again plus the motor maintenance.
>>> Lets say the motor terminal to ground reads over 20 meg ohms when new
>>> and when I reads about 50 K ohms, it is time to clean the motor
>>> because of the brush dust tracking.
>>>
>>> If you had it connected to the load as you said, then the problem
>>> could be as David said. The ampere on 12 volt under this type of load
>>> could be 600 to
>>> 800  amperes.  Applying 180 volts to a Warp 9 connected to a
>>> transmission in neutral is about 50 motor ampere for me, so at 12
>>> volts this would be about
>>> 750 amperes.
>>>
>>> Roland
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "David Dymaxion"<[hidden email]>
>>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"<[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 8:50 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Warp 9 failure
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> How many amps is it drawing? A clamp on ammeter would tell you. I
>>>> helped a friend and a motor power post had cracked causing a similar
>>>>
>> situation.
>>
>>>> If you put the car in gear, can you push the car and spin the motor?
>>>> That would prove it is mechanically free.
>>>>
>>>> If you are drawing a low current current, it could be you simply need
>>>> more volts and amps. My motor would spin up freely by itself on 12
>>>> Volts, but would not move the car on level ground.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Andrew Wood<[hidden email]>
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 9:16:49 AM
>>>> Subject: [EVDL] Warp 9 failure
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to what might be
>>>> wrong with my Warp 9.
>>>>
>>>> Ive had it running freestanding in both directions off a 12v battery
>>>> no problem.
>>>>
>>>> Today we've tried running it with the transmission connected up and
>>>> the driving wheels off the ground. Initially it went in one
>>>> directions but we were getting some vibration from the transmission
>>>> which we think was caused by the driveshafts to the wheels catching
>>>> on the subframe due to the weight of the wheel.
>>>>
>>>> When we tried it in reverse, nothing. We've now disconnected all the
>>>> transmission so the motor is freestanding again but we cant get the
>>>> motor to move in either direction. Ive checked with the voltmeter
>>>> that theres power there but the motor makes no attempt to move.
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible something has broken inside the Warp 9?
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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