Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
35 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

NeilBlanchard
Hi folks,

There are iMiEV's on the road now, in the USA, though only for a select few, including Chelsea Sexton and Zan and Paul Scott:

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/02/18/long-time-electric-vehicle-driver-get-a-crack-at-the-i-miev/

http://evsandenergy.blogspot.com/2010/02/zan-and-paul-test-mitsubishi-imiev.html

Please note that Paul would like it better if it had a freewheeling coast mode, like his RAV4 EV:

"There is no "freewheeling" which will disappoint RAV drivers who like to use this coasting method for hypermiling. When you are in full power mode and lift your foot off the accelerator, the regen is always there at about the same level as that found in a Prius. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I prefer the option to freewheel since I can get better efficiency when driving in heavy traffic."

Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.vox.com/library/posts/



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100218/07fe1b92/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Romanian E-Logan to be sold in US

The Pilgrim
Hi folks,

we have a few articles here in Romania about a business done by an
american who is importing romanian Logans converted in the factory to
electric under the name EMC. They say the price in your country will be
some 32,950 USD (for the pick-up) and will give some 420km on one
charge!! The first 3 cars will go to Chicago (probably allready there).
Theey will offer as quarantee 3ys or 58000km, plus 160,ooo km for the
batery.
The company is Des Moines Motors (owned by Gene Gabus) and they are
supposed to sign contracts for 28 of your states. On 7 feb Dacia
representatives denied everything...

The ideea apears to be a joint between the cheapest car in Europe (Dacia
Logan) and new electric tehnologies resulting in the cheapest EV in
America. Could be fine, but the secrecy is humiliating for us, because
we will not be able to buy them from Romania..

http://www.wall-street.ro/articol/Auto/79779/Dacia-Logan-pick-up-electric-lansat-in-America-sub-marca-EMC.html

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Romanian E-Logan to be sold in US

cowtown
<<< The ideea apears to be a joint between the cheapest car in Europe (Dacia
Logan) and new electric tehnologies resulting in the cheapest EV in
America. Could be fine, but the secrecy is humiliating for us, because
we will not be able to buy them from Romania..>>>

$33K may be less than a Tesla, but it's still too much for me to spend  
without a history of crash-worthiness, reliability, and dealer support  
(something one would expect with Nissan's Leaf)

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

cowtown
In reply to this post by NeilBlanchard
"There is no "freewheeling" which will disappoint RAV drivers who like  
to use this coasting method for hypermiling. When you are in full  
power mode and lift your foot off the accelerator, the regen is always  
there at about the same level as that found in a Prius. This isn't  
necessarily a bad thing, but I prefer the option to freewheel since I  
can get better efficiency when driving in heavy traffic."

My Ranger didn't have freewheeling, but I would always change to  
neutral for that - does the iMiEV have a way to shift?


_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Romanian E-Logan to be sold in US

The Pilgrim
In reply to this post by cowtown
[hidden email] wrote:

> <<< The ideea apears to be a joint between the cheapest car in Europe (Dacia
> Logan) and new electric tehnologies resulting in the cheapest EV in
> America. Could be fine, but the secrecy is humiliating for us, because
> we will not be able to buy them from Romania..>>>
>
> $33K may be less than a Tesla, but it's still too much for me to spend  
> without a history of crash-worthiness, reliability, and dealer support  
> (something one would expect with Nissan's Leaf)
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>  
You can follow that history searching Renault / Dacia Logan news /
facts. It is a medium car, on a acceptable platform. I believe is a good
value/ money ratio.

The real problem (at least for us here) is the way these things are
done: under cover. Perhaps the pressure from the oil guyz is too high to
make things open. Lets hope the best for this good step toward
electrification.

Stefan

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Romanian E-Logan to be sold in US

Yasen Pramatarov
In reply to this post by cowtown
На Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:00:17 -0800 cowtown написа:
>$33K may be less than a Tesla, but it's still too much for me to
>spend without a history of crash-worthiness, reliability, and dealer
>support (something one would expect with Nissan's Leaf)

 Dacia has both a history of crash-worthiness and a dealer support.
 Come on, it's a Renault and if you haven't heard of "Dacia", you
 should have at least heard of "Renault"...

 Needless to say, Nissan is in fact very much a Renault too. At least
 in recent years they are working very close together.

 So if you trust Nissan for it's Leaf, you should be able to put some
 trust in Dacia too. For it's a Renault in fact. I guess Dacia is more
 popular as a brand in Eastern Europe, but hey, that's what Wikipedia
 is for :)

 I'm not a gib fan of Dacia, with all my respect to Romanian
 EV-hobbyists, Dacia has been notorious for it's low build quality.
 Like the Renault, but a bit worse.

 Nevertheless, it's the cheapest car here and if there is an
 EV-version, or if Dacia sales gliders to end-customers (does it?), it's
 good news.

--
| Yasen Pramatarov
|        a.k.a. turin
| home: http://yasen.lindeas.com
| http://lindeas.com - working on gnu/linux ideas
| http://electriclub.com - Bulgarian EV club

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Romanian E-Logan to be sold in US

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by cowtown
Renault Logan has a strong presence in many countries.
Here in India it is used by higher-end taxi companies
as their fleet vehicle, together with the Tata Marina
(the station-wagon version of Tata Indigo)

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 11:30 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Romanian E-Logan to be sold in US

<<< The ideea apears to be a joint between the cheapest car in Europe
(Dacia
Logan) and new electric tehnologies resulting in the cheapest EV in
America. Could be fine, but the secrecy is humiliating for us, because
we will not be able to buy them from Romania..>>>

$33K may be less than a Tesla, but it's still too much for me to spend
without a history of crash-worthiness, reliability, and dealer support
(something one would expect with Nissan's Leaf)

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

Thor Johnson
In reply to this post by cowtown
If letting off on the gas engages regen, shouldn't there be a "null"
spot in the accelerator pedal.  We're going to set the "coast point" at
25% travel for our MES-DEA system, with an adjustment knob on the dash
for setting the regen strength (for use in low-traction conditions).

Why wouldn't that be ideal?

-Thor

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 1:03 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

"There is no "freewheeling" which will disappoint RAV drivers who like  
to use this coasting method for hypermiling. When you are in full  
power mode and lift your foot off the accelerator, the regen is always  
there at about the same level as that found in a Prius. This isn't  
necessarily a bad thing, but I prefer the option to freewheel since I  
can get better efficiency when driving in heavy traffic."

My Ranger didn't have freewheeling, but I would always change to  
neutral for that - does the iMiEV have a way to shift?


_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

Evan Tuer
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Thor Johnson
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> If letting off on the gas engages regen, shouldn't there be a "null"
> spot in the accelerator pedal.  We're going to set the "coast point" at
> 25% travel for our MES-DEA system, with an adjustment knob on the dash
> for setting the regen strength (for use in low-traction conditions).
>
> Why wouldn't that be ideal?

It is ideal.  People who think otherwise are doing it wrong, IMHO :)

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

Cor van de Water
Since the coasting is such an important feature
and control on an EV, it may be worthwhile to give
it a small range of accelerator pedal travel,
instead of a single spot, so that it is easier to
find and hold.
Example of pot control:
0-10% max regen (level selectable elsewhere)
10-20% ramping from max to min regen
20-25% coasting
25-90% increasing (slightly logarithmic) torque control
90-100% "WOT" max torque (=acceleration)

Not using the bottom and top 10% accommodates pots
that have difficulty contacting the end stop and
variations in mechanical linkage.
Allowing 5% accelerator travel while staying in coast
allows for vibration, bumps and other instantaneous
variations while still remaining in coast mode.

My own experience in driving is that I typically
use the accelerator to fine-tune my acceleration
depending on traffic and keep it steady while driving
until an unexpected change either requires accel or
braking, in the latter case it means letting up on
the pedal completely (max regen) but when I see that
I need less deceleration, I will engage the pedal
again to go to coast or accelerate.
During my driving, I find that - especially noticeable
in my ICE vehicles which are stickshift - I often
quickly accelerate to the intended speed and then
let up quite a bit on the accelerator while shifting
to the highest usable gear to maintain speed or even
start coasting by engaging the clutch and holding it
until I again need to change my speed.
In my EV I was often playing with the accelerator to
keep the vehicle in coast mode as much as possible;
in my Prius I used the same type of control to keep
it in EV mode.

Controlling regen with a knob can be done in many
different ways. On the US Electricar vehicles they
used the already present PRND21 selector to have
3 different regen settings for D, 2 and 1.
There was no difference in acceleration as the
AC drive was gearless and could go from 0 to max
speed in its fixed-in-second-gear setup.
On the Prius there was a PRNDB selection, where
the B stands for Braking, recommended for mountain
driving and indeed giving higher regen (or racing
the ICE to use the pumping losses to slow down once
the small battery got its max filling)
On my EV I could program the max regen current via
a PC application or CLI (Command Line Interface)
but that is not user friendly.
You can have a simple switch button on the dash for
regen on/off, or a fancy REGEN UP/DOWN control to
select from a set of levels, or a continuous control
using a pot...
Note that on the US Electricar vehicles the brake
lights turned ON when the more severe regen was
selected and you released the accelerator, because
the 35kW or so of power feeding back into the
battery bank (312V nominal, 100+ Amps) caused a
deceleration comparable to moderate braking.

Success,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 10:08 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Thor Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> If letting off on the gas engages regen, shouldn't there be a "null"
> spot in the accelerator pedal.  We're going to set the "coast point"
> at 25% travel for our MES-DEA system, with an adjustment knob on the
> dash for setting the regen strength (for use in low-traction conditions).
>
> Why wouldn't that be ideal?

It is ideal.  People who think otherwise are doing it wrong, IMHO :)

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

John Scrivner
I think that one should strive toward avoiding using the upper and lower ten
percent pot values for actual control of the vehicle for anther reason. I
believe that range should be designated by a motor controller as a place
where zero power is applied. This way the controller can help to eliminate a
runaway condition of full throttle in the event of a pot failure or dead
short condition which simulates a dead pot failure. If the the upper 10% of
POT travel relates to "full on" throttle then a condition similar to the
Toyota runaway acceleration could happen quite easily.

Likewise, it is important for me in my future EV design to include a
physical disconnect of mechanical power through the clutch as a means of
last resort removal of power. For many here these things may all seem
acedemic and if so I am sorry to waste time. I am a relative newcomer to
this culture but have been lurking here long enough I thought I should at
least share these ideals for the few who may also be newer and are possibly
farther along in actual EV design.

We certainly do not need the sort of PR Toyota has had of late and I think
preventing premature death of our fellow EVers is probably a good way to
help prevent such misfortune for all involved.
John Scrivner



On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Cor van de Water <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Since the coasting is such an important feature
> and control on an EV, it may be worthwhile to give
> it a small range of accelerator pedal travel,
> instead of a single spot, so that it is easier to
> find and hold.
> Example of pot control:
> 0-10% max regen (level selectable elsewhere)
> 10-20% ramping from max to min regen
> 20-25% coasting
> 25-90% increasing (slightly logarithmic) torque control
> 90-100% "WOT" max torque (=acceleration)
>
> Not using the bottom and top 10% accommodates pots
> that have difficulty contacting the end stop and
> variations in mechanical linkage.
> Allowing 5% accelerator travel while staying in coast
> allows for vibration, bumps and other instantaneous
> variations while still remaining in coast mode.
>
> My own experience in driving is that I typically
> use the accelerator to fine-tune my acceleration
> depending on traffic and keep it steady while driving
> until an unexpected change either requires accel or
> braking, in the latter case it means letting up on
> the pedal completely (max regen) but when I see that
> I need less deceleration, I will engage the pedal
> again to go to coast or accelerate.
> During my driving, I find that - especially noticeable
> in my ICE vehicles which are stickshift - I often
> quickly accelerate to the intended speed and then
> let up quite a bit on the accelerator while shifting
> to the highest usable gear to maintain speed or even
> start coasting by engaging the clutch and holding it
> until I again need to change my speed.
> In my EV I was often playing with the accelerator to
> keep the vehicle in coast mode as much as possible;
> in my Prius I used the same type of control to keep
> it in EV mode.
>
> Controlling regen with a knob can be done in many
> different ways. On the US Electricar vehicles they
> used the already present PRND21 selector to have
> 3 different regen settings for D, 2 and 1.
> There was no difference in acceleration as the
> AC drive was gearless and could go from 0 to max
> speed in its fixed-in-second-gear setup.
> On the Prius there was a PRNDB selection, where
> the B stands for Braking, recommended for mountain
> driving and indeed giving higher regen (or racing
> the ICE to use the pumping losses to slow down once
> the small battery got its max filling)
> On my EV I could program the max regen current via
> a PC application or CLI (Command Line Interface)
> but that is not user friendly.
> You can have a simple switch button on the dash for
> regen on/off, or a fancy REGEN UP/DOWN control to
> select from a set of levels, or a continuous control
> using a pot...
> Note that on the US Electricar vehicles the brake
> lights turned ON when the more severe regen was
> selected and you released the accelerator, because
> the 35kW or so of power feeding back into the
> battery bank (312V nominal, 100+ Amps) caused a
> deceleration comparable to moderate braking.
>
> Success,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Evan Tuer
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 10:08 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV
>
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Thor Johnson <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> > If letting off on the gas engages regen, shouldn't there be a "null"
> > spot in the accelerator pedal.  We're going to set the "coast point"
> > at 25% travel for our MES-DEA system, with an adjustment knob on the
> > dash for setting the regen strength (for use in low-traction conditions).
> >
> > Why wouldn't that be ideal?
>
> It is ideal.  People who think otherwise are doing it wrong, IMHO :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100219/9d014068/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

Thor Johnson
>I think that one should strive toward avoiding using the upper and
lower ten
>percent pot values for actual control of the vehicle for anther reason.
I
>believe that range should be designated by a motor controller as a
place
>where zero power is applied. This way the controller can help to
eliminate a
>runaway condition of full throttle in the event of a pot failure or
dead
>short condition which simulates a dead pot failure. If the the upper
10% of
>POT travel relates to "full on" throttle then a condition similar to
the
>Toyota runaway acceleration could happen quite easily.

That's a pretty good idea; I'll probably add a bias resistor (~50K) to
ground
so if the wiper of the pot starts getting flaky it will default to
"don't go."


>Likewise, it is important for me in my future EV design to include a
>physical disconnect of mechanical power through the clutch as a means
of
>last resort removal of power. For many here these things may all seem
>acedemic and if so I am sorry to waste time. I am a relative newcomer
to
>this culture but have been lurking here long enough I thought I should
at
>least share these ideals for the few who may also be newer and are
possibly
>farther along in actual EV design.

If you do this, you need to make sure it is nowhere in the line of the
driver;
if you unload a DC motor when it's at full output, I expect it to
grenade itself
and throw bits of itself in a radial fashion.  I think the carcass of
the car
would contain the bits, but... there's a reason dragsters use SFI
approved
clutch shields.

>We certainly do not need the sort of PR Toyota has had of late and I
think
>preventing premature death of our fellow EVers is probably a good way
to
>help prevent such misfortune for all involved.

Agree.  However, I also think a lot of the Toyota issues is NHTSA trying
to
"make American Companies look good."  IE, I think they're on a
witch-hunt.

That being said, a lot of the witch-hunting seems necessary because
Toyota
"looked like they were trying to cover it up" so...

I found it interesting that they're using "traditional" looking gas
pedals
and floor mats without retainers... when my Ford Focus has this
odd-shaped
gas pedal that you can always get under if necessary, and the floor mats
are
attached to the floor with hooks.

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Cor van de Water
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> Since the coasting is such an important feature
> and control on an EV, it may be worthwhile to give
> it a small range of accelerator pedal travel,
> instead of a single spot, so that it is easier to
> find and hold.
> Example of pot control:
> 0-10% max regen (level selectable elsewhere)
> 10-20% ramping from max to min regen
> 20-25% coasting
> 25-90% increasing (slightly logarithmic) torque control
> 90-100% "WOT" max torque (=acceleration)
>
> Not using the bottom and top 10% accommodates pots
> that have difficulty contacting the end stop and
> variations in mechanical linkage.
> Allowing 5% accelerator travel while staying in coast
> allows for vibration, bumps and other instantaneous
> variations while still remaining in coast mode.
>
> My own experience in driving is that I typically
> use the accelerator to fine-tune my acceleration
> depending on traffic and keep it steady while driving
> until an unexpected change either requires accel or
> braking, in the latter case it means letting up on
> the pedal completely (max regen) but when I see that
> I need less deceleration, I will engage the pedal
> again to go to coast or accelerate.
> During my driving, I find that - especially noticeable
> in my ICE vehicles which are stickshift - I often
> quickly accelerate to the intended speed and then
> let up quite a bit on the accelerator while shifting
> to the highest usable gear to maintain speed or even
> start coasting by engaging the clutch and holding it
> until I again need to change my speed.
> In my EV I was often playing with the accelerator to
> keep the vehicle in coast mode as much as possible;
> in my Prius I used the same type of control to keep
> it in EV mode.
>
> Controlling regen with a knob can be done in many
> different ways. On the US Electricar vehicles they
> used the already present PRND21 selector to have
> 3 different regen settings for D, 2 and 1.
> There was no difference in acceleration as the
> AC drive was gearless and could go from 0 to max
> speed in its fixed-in-second-gear setup.
> On the Prius there was a PRNDB selection, where
> the B stands for Braking, recommended for mountain
> driving and indeed giving higher regen (or racing
> the ICE to use the pumping losses to slow down once
> the small battery got its max filling)
> On my EV I could program the max regen current via
> a PC application or CLI (Command Line Interface)
> but that is not user friendly.
> You can have a simple switch button on the dash for
> regen on/off, or a fancy REGEN UP/DOWN control to
> select from a set of levels, or a continuous control
> using a pot...
> Note that on the US Electricar vehicles the brake
> lights turned ON when the more severe regen was
> selected and you released the accelerator, because
> the 35kW or so of power feeding back into the
> battery bank (312V nominal, 100+ Amps) caused a
> deceleration comparable to moderate braking.
>
> Success,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Evan Tuer
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 10:08 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV
>
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Thor Johnson <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> > If letting off on the gas engages regen, shouldn't there be a "null"
> > spot in the accelerator pedal.  We're going to set the "coast point"
> > at 25% travel for our MES-DEA system, with an adjustment knob on the
> > dash for setting the regen strength (for use in low-traction
conditions).

> >
> > Why wouldn't that be ideal?
>
> It is ideal.  People who think otherwise are doing it wrong, IMHO :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100219/9d014068/a
ttachment.html
_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

tomw
In reply to this post by NeilBlanchard
I have my AC motor/controller set to give fairly strong braking/regen if the accelerator is released.  I only completely release it when coming to a stop though.  I control the car's speed over 95% with the accelerator, hardly using the mechanical brakes.  If I want to coast I just ease off the accelerator to where I am pulling about zero current and not generating current, i.e. the wheels are spinning the rotor at the angular velocity of the field mmf wave, so no work is done. If I want to slow just a bit, I release the pedal a little further to get a bit of electric braking and regen, and to slow more I release it a bit further still.  I can come to a complete stop at a traffic light this way while keeping pace with the traffic around me, not fully releasing the accelerator pedal until I am quite close to the light.  I also can maintain the car's speed at the speed limit down most hills this way.  Some seem to think regen is digital, all or none, that is not at all the case.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by Thor Johnson
That's why professional controllers use *two* independent pots
and stop if the two don't track.
Also, those controllers will not start if the throttle input
is not close to zero, comparable to ICE vehicles that do
not start if the gear selector is not in Park and the brake
depressed or for some stickshifts if the clutch is not
depressed, though there are situations where you *want* to
start with the gears engaged, think getting stuck on a rail
track where you can escape by "starting" in first gear,
a crude EV operation of the ICE stickshift to bring you to
safety when the engine does not run.

Anyway, top and bottom 10% should not resort to "no go" in
normal operation, as the adjacent areas are max regen and
max acceleration. It would be very dangerous indeed if your
"pedal to the metal" suddenly resulted in controller cutout
as that could lead to surprises and the worst enemy of
safety is a surprise.
Also if you let up on the accelerator and suddenly transition
from max regen (brake) to no-op. You could easily hit
something that way...
I agree that the controller can be programmed to avoid
startup (and issue a fault) when it detects max throttle
when you boot the controller.

Another safety feature may be that detecting braking (pedal)
will cancel acceleration or even drop of contactor - though on
some vehicles the contactor is dropped every time that
the accelerator returns to rest position.
You need to balance the quest for safety and the amount
of disruption you might get from normal operation situations,
for example if you accidentally touch the brake while pushing
the accelerator down to cross an intersection before oncoming
traffic then it is unwanted if the EV disables itself, either
by dropping the contactor or by disabling the controller.
It is even worse if that is implemented in a way that requires
you to reboot. And if reboot requires the vehicle to be in Park
then you can imagine the embarrassement.
Even if the EV misbehaves you'd like to get away "dignity intact"
as some like to say on this list.

Hope this helps,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Thor Johnson
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 5:06 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

>I think that one should strive toward avoiding using the upper and
lower ten
>percent pot values for actual control of the vehicle for anther reason.
I
>believe that range should be designated by a motor controller as a
place
>where zero power is applied. This way the controller can help to
eliminate a
>runaway condition of full throttle in the event of a pot failure or
dead
>short condition which simulates a dead pot failure. If the the upper
10% of
>POT travel relates to "full on" throttle then a condition similar to
the
>Toyota runaway acceleration could happen quite easily.

That's a pretty good idea; I'll probably add a bias resistor (~50K) to
ground so if the wiper of the pot starts getting flaky it will default
to "don't go."


>Likewise, it is important for me in my future EV design to include a
>physical disconnect of mechanical power through the clutch as a means
of
>last resort removal of power. For many here these things may all seem
>acedemic and if so I am sorry to waste time. I am a relative newcomer
to
>this culture but have been lurking here long enough I thought I should
at
>least share these ideals for the few who may also be newer and are
possibly
>farther along in actual EV design.

If you do this, you need to make sure it is nowhere in the line of the
driver; if you unload a DC motor when it's at full output, I expect it
to grenade itself and throw bits of itself in a radial fashion.  I think
the carcass of the car would contain the bits, but... there's a reason
dragsters use SFI approved clutch shields.

>We certainly do not need the sort of PR Toyota has had of late and I
think
>preventing premature death of our fellow EVers is probably a good way
to
>help prevent such misfortune for all involved.

Agree.  However, I also think a lot of the Toyota issues is NHTSA trying
to "make American Companies look good."  IE, I think they're on a
witch-hunt.

That being said, a lot of the witch-hunting seems necessary because
Toyota "looked like they were trying to cover it up" so...

I found it interesting that they're using "traditional" looking gas
pedals and floor mats without retainers... when my Ford Focus has this
odd-shaped gas pedal that you can always get under if necessary, and the
floor mats are attached to the floor with hooks.

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Cor van de Water
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> Since the coasting is such an important feature and control on an EV,
> it may be worthwhile to give it a small range of accelerator pedal
> travel, instead of a single spot, so that it is easier to find and
> hold.
> Example of pot control:
> 0-10% max regen (level selectable elsewhere) 10-20% ramping from max
> to min regen 20-25% coasting 25-90% increasing (slightly logarithmic)
> torque control 90-100% "WOT" max torque (=acceleration)
>
> Not using the bottom and top 10% accommodates pots that have
> difficulty contacting the end stop and variations in mechanical
> linkage.
> Allowing 5% accelerator travel while staying in coast allows for
> vibration, bumps and other instantaneous variations while still
> remaining in coast mode.
>
> My own experience in driving is that I typically use the accelerator
> to fine-tune my acceleration depending on traffic and keep it steady
> while driving until an unexpected change either requires accel or
> braking, in the latter case it means letting up on the pedal
> completely (max regen) but when I see that I need less deceleration, I

> will engage the pedal again to go to coast or accelerate.
> During my driving, I find that - especially noticeable in my ICE
> vehicles which are stickshift - I often quickly accelerate to the
> intended speed and then let up quite a bit on the accelerator while
> shifting to the highest usable gear to maintain speed or even start
> coasting by engaging the clutch and holding it until I again need to
> change my speed.
> In my EV I was often playing with the accelerator to keep the vehicle
> in coast mode as much as possible; in my Prius I used the same type of

> control to keep it in EV mode.
>
> Controlling regen with a knob can be done in many different ways. On
> the US Electricar vehicles they used the already present PRND21
> selector to have
> 3 different regen settings for D, 2 and 1.
> There was no difference in acceleration as the AC drive was gearless
> and could go from 0 to max speed in its fixed-in-second-gear setup.
> On the Prius there was a PRNDB selection, where the B stands for
> Braking, recommended for mountain driving and indeed giving higher
> regen (or racing the ICE to use the pumping losses to slow down once
> the small battery got its max filling) On my EV I could program the
> max regen current via a PC application or CLI (Command Line Interface)

> but that is not user friendly.
> You can have a simple switch button on the dash for regen on/off, or a

> fancy REGEN UP/DOWN control to select from a set of levels, or a
> continuous control using a pot...
> Note that on the US Electricar vehicles the brake lights turned ON
> when the more severe regen was selected and you released the
> accelerator, because the 35kW or so of power feeding back into the
> battery bank (312V nominal, 100+ Amps) caused a deceleration
> comparable to moderate braking.
>
> Success,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation
> http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Evan Tuer
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 10:08 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV
>
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Thor Johnson <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> > If letting off on the gas engages regen, shouldn't there be a "null"
> > spot in the accelerator pedal.  We're going to set the "coast point"
> > at 25% travel for our MES-DEA system, with an adjustment knob on the

> > dash for setting the regen strength (for use in low-traction
conditions).

> >
> > Why wouldn't that be ideal?
>
> It is ideal.  People who think otherwise are doing it wrong, IMHO :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100219/9d014068/a
ttachment.html
_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/ Subscription options:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

Zeke Yewdall
In reply to this post by Thor Johnson
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Thor Johnson <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> If you do this, you need to make sure it is nowhere in the line of the
> driver;
> if you unload a DC motor when it's at full output, I expect it to
> grenade itself
> and throw bits of itself in a radial fashion.  I think the carcass of
> the car
> would contain the bits, but... there's a reason dragsters use SFI
> approved
> clutch shields.
>
>
I get Cor's control argument, but not this one... how would stopping power
to a motor result in it destructing?  It seems like it would just result in
loss of power to the car obviously, and the motor still turning exactly the
same rpm it was under power, just now driven by the car instead of
electricity.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100220/d2577e89/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

Zeke Yewdall
In reply to this post by Evan Tuer
I wuld hope that regen is a graduated thing, not just one or off.  You can
have full power, partial power, coasting, partial braking, or full engine
braking, depending on where you hold the pedal... yes, putting in the clutch
or throwing it in nuetral is the easy way to coast, but you can also do it
by selecting the exact pedal position where the engine is providing zero
torque -- negative or positive to the rest of the driveline.  In a gas car,
this is harder to find unless you have an older less soundproof one where
you can hear the exhaust note, but still quite doable, but for an electric
car, it should be easy by looking at the ammeter... where it's gone down to
zero, but hasn't gone to negative yet, you are coasting.  Based on the way I
drive my gas car, this would be very intuitive to me.  People who are used
to cars that don't engine brake very well or automatics that don't have rear
output shaft driven pumps or lockup converters and dont engine brake as well
because of that, or who are used to just using the brake pedal to slow down
might find it less intuitive though.

Z

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Evan Tuer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Thor Johnson
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > If letting off on the gas engages regen, shouldn't there be a "null"
> > spot in the accelerator pedal.  We're going to set the "coast point" at
> > 25% travel for our MES-DEA system, with an adjustment knob on the dash
> > for setting the regen strength (for use in low-traction conditions).
> >
> > Why wouldn't that be ideal?
>
> It is ideal.  People who think otherwise are doing it wrong, IMHO :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100220/4e6a0e6f/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

Bob Rice-2
In reply to this post by Zeke Yewdall

----- Original Message -----
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV


> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Thor Johnson <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> If you do this, you need to make sure it is nowhere in the line of the
>> driver;
>> if you unload a DC motor when it's at full output, I expect it to
>> grenade itself
>> and throw bits of itself in a radial fashion.  I think the carcass of
>> the car
>> would contain the bits, but... there's a reason dragsters use SFI
>> approved
>> clutch shields.
>>
>>
> I get Cor's control argument, but not this one... how would stopping power
> to a motor result in it destructing?  It seems like it would just result
> in
> loss of power to the car obviously, and the motor still turning exactly
> the
> same rpm it was under power, just now driven by the car instead of
> electricity.

     He meant unloading the motor while it's at "Full Boil" mode, in neutral
or busted drive train?

       Bob

> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100220/d2577e89/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

Zeke Yewdall
Yeah, I can see how that would be a "problem" if it was a series DC motor.
Kabloey...

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Bob Rice <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 12:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV
>
>
> > On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Thor Johnson <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> If you do this, you need to make sure it is nowhere in the line of the
> >> driver;
> >> if you unload a DC motor when it's at full output, I expect it to
> >> grenade itself
> >> and throw bits of itself in a radial fashion.  I think the carcass of
> >> the car
> >> would contain the bits, but... there's a reason dragsters use SFI
> >> approved
> >> clutch shields.
> >>
> >>
> > I get Cor's control argument, but not this one... how would stopping
> power
> > to a motor result in it destructing?  It seems like it would just result
> > in
> > loss of power to the car obviously, and the motor still turning exactly
> > the
> > same rpm it was under power, just now driven by the car instead of
> > electricity.
>
>      He meant unloading the motor while it's at "Full Boil" mode, in
> neutral
> or busted drive train?
>
>       Bob
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> >
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100220/d2577e89/attachment.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> > Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> > Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> > Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100220/0b1ff559/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

Doug Weathers
In reply to this post by Zeke Yewdall

On Feb 20, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Zeke Yewdall wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Thor Johnson <
> [hidden email]> wrote:

>> if you unload a DC motor when it's at full output, I expect it to
>> grenade itself
>> and throw bits of itself in a radial fashion.  I think the carcass of
>> the car
>> would contain the bits, but... there's a reason dragsters use SFI
>> approved
>> clutch shields.

> how would stopping power
> to a motor result in it destructing?


I took "unloading" to mean "removing the load", not "removing the  
electricity".  The "load" is the thing that the motor is turning.

If you have a series DC motor in your car, and you "unload" it (for  
example, by pressing the clutch), the motor will overspeed and  
something will break.  Jeff Shanab can explain how that works,  
unfortunately.

--
Doug Weathers
http://www.gdunge.com
"There is no easy way from the Earth to the stars." - Seneca
"We choose to go to the Moon and do the other things - not because  
they are easy, but because they are hard." - John F. Kennedy



_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Zan and Paul test the Mitsubishi iMiEV

Jeff Shanab
In reply to this post by NeilBlanchard
  I believe in the principal of least surprise. But maybe there is a way
to detect mechanical vs human vs electrical error

  If I floor it, a human time action, I pass thru the pots range in lets
say 1/4 second. In computer time that is pretty long and I can take a
few samples and see that ok, this was not  < 1ms so not an electrical
fault.  This is in addition to traditional high lock out

    For mechanical, most double spring to off throttle pulled by a cable
throttle is safe and normal.
    So if throttle snaps back faster than 1/4 sec, then no regen, if
lifted slowly then regen.

    I personally would love regen and gas on the same pedal for the best
trailbraking-corner acceleration possible, but maybe that is "sport
mode". Progressive regen on the top part of the break pedal does seem
more ICE(aka Mainstream ) like. ie least surprise, let the optional
sport mode be the transition tech.

I don't know what the time ranges are, maybe a drag racer can answer this.

Of course there may be an easier way. Switch on spring loaded pedal
pivot point or an actual pressure switch on the pad in series with pot.
If the pot is high and there is no pedal pressure, then shut down no
power no regen, coast to stop.


_______________________________________________
General support: http://evdl.org/help/
Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

12