a-pillar blind spot (OT)

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a-pillar blind spot (OT)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
This is really brilliant - teenager design system to eliminate blind
spot caused by the A-pillar, and hopes to interest Tesla.

It works by using a camera to capture, from the driver's point of view,
what would be blocked by the pillar. Then, that image is projected onto
the pillar itself, effectively making the pillar transparent. Or, in the
future, the pillar could be covered with an LED screen or other display
technology instead of projecting an image.

She added reflective material to the pillar surface to make the
projected image clear and bright.

I think this is particularly ingenious, and better than the standard
approach of having a display with a general image from an external
camera, because it allows the driver to look at just one place to
capture all information. With a separate display, you have to look out
the windows AND look at the display, which takes more time and mental
processing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/07/us/blind-spots-science-project.html

Peri

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Re: a-pillar blind spot (OT)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> teenager design system to eliminate blind spot caused by the A-pillar
> It works by using a camera to capture, from the driver's point of view,
> what would be blocked by the pillar. Then, that image is projected onto
> the pillar itself, effectively making the pillar transparent.
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/07/us/blind-spots-science-project.html

It's a clever idea; but I wonder how practical it would be. It has to
know exactly where your eye is, to position the image correctly.
Otherwise, the image will be shifted out of position, showing you a spot
that you could already see through the glass and *not* showing you what
is really behind the pillar.

There are some pretty strong clear plastics (lexan etc.) I wonder if the
A pillar could simply be made of a transparent plastic?

Or, just make it from a strong enough material so it can be much
smaller. I remember cars of old with A-pillars so small you could wrap
your hand around it and the fingers would touch.

Side question: Why has it become fashionable to reduce the size of
windows as much as possible (creating huge pillars and reducing
visibility), and then painting an inch or more of the edges black?

Lee Hart

--
There is a computer disease that anybody who works with computers knows
about. It's very serious, and interferes completely with your work. The
trouble with computers is that you 'play' with them! (Richard Feynman)
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: a-pillar blind spot (OT)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Lee,

Car buyers have massively indicated (to market researchers) that they want to feel secure in their cars and they (incorrectly) associate this with tinted and small windows, so they cannot be seen inside their vehicles, that is why especially rear windows have become increasingly smaller. Front windows are required to offer a minimal amount of view, but with paint you can make the edges smaller and conceal any transitions, rubber and other imperfections.
Width of A-pillars has to do with safety rating for roll-over as well as stiffness of the unibody. That is why in a collision or even a severe pothole, a window can bust as it is glued in to add to the stiffness.
Cor.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Lee Hart via EV
Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2019 9:18 AM
To: Peri Hartman; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Lee Hart
Subject: Re: [EVDL] a-pillar blind spot (OT)

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> teenager design system to eliminate blind spot caused by the A-pillar
> It works by using a camera to capture, from the driver's point of view,
> what would be blocked by the pillar. Then, that image is projected onto
> the pillar itself, effectively making the pillar transparent.
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/07/us/blind-spots-science-project.html

It's a clever idea; but I wonder how practical it would be. It has to
know exactly where your eye is, to position the image correctly.
Otherwise, the image will be shifted out of position, showing you a spot
that you could already see through the glass and *not* showing you what
is really behind the pillar.

There are some pretty strong clear plastics (lexan etc.) I wonder if the
A pillar could simply be made of a transparent plastic?

Or, just make it from a strong enough material so it can be much
smaller. I remember cars of old with A-pillars so small you could wrap
your hand around it and the fingers would touch.

Side question: Why has it become fashionable to reduce the size of
windows as much as possible (creating huge pillars and reducing
visibility), and then painting an inch or more of the edges black?

Lee Hart

--
There is a computer disease that anybody who works with computers knows
about. It's very serious, and interferes completely with your work. The
trouble with computers is that you 'play' with them! (Richard Feynman)
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
_______________________________________________
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Re: a-pillar blind spot (OT)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Yes, with the aerodynamic slope of the windshield, the A-pillar has
become longer and fatter. However, the other design elements blocking
vision to the diagonals are just plain stupid. If I were to have a
liable accident due to this blind spot, I would definitely sue the
manufacturer.

My approach to being proactive is to lean to the right so I can see
around the left pillar, which I do a lot. The right pillar isn't so bad.

Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>; "Peri
Hartman" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Lee Hart" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 07-Nov-19 10:01:14 AM
Subject: RE: [EVDL] a-pillar blind spot (OT)

>Lee,
>
>
>
>Car buyers have massively indicated (to market researchers) that they
>want to feel secure in their cars and they (incorrectly) associate this
>with tinted and small windows, so they cannot be seen inside their
>vehicles, that is why especially rear windows have become increasingly
>smaller. Front windows are required to offer a minimal amount of view,
>but with paint you can make the edges smaller and conceal any
>transitions, rubber and other imperfections.
>
>Width of A-pillars has to do with safety rating for roll-over as well
>as stiffness of the unibody. That is why in a collision or even a
>severe pothole, a window can bust as it is glued in to add to the
>stiffness.
>
>Cor.
>
>
>
>Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>Windows 10
>
>
>
>From: Lee Hart via EV <mailto:[hidden email]>
>Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2019 9:18 AM
>To: Peri Hartman <mailto:[hidden email]>; Electric Vehicle
>Discussion List <mailto:[hidden email]>
>Cc: Lee Hart <mailto:[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] a-pillar blind spot (OT)
>
>
>
>Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>
> > teenager design system to eliminate blind spot caused by the A-pillar
>
> > It works by using a camera to capture, from the driver's point of
>view,
>
> > what would be blocked by the pillar. Then, that image is projected
>onto
>
> > the pillar itself, effectively making the pillar transparent.
>
> >
>https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/07/us/blind-spots-science-project.html
>
>
>
>It's a clever idea; but I wonder how practical it would be. It has to
>
>know exactly where your eye is, to position the image correctly.
>
>Otherwise, the image will be shifted out of position, showing you a
>spot
>
>that you could already see through the glass and *not* showing you what
>
>is really behind the pillar.
>
>
>
>There are some pretty strong clear plastics (lexan etc.) I wonder if
>the
>
>A pillar could simply be made of a transparent plastic?
>
>
>
>Or, just make it from a strong enough material so it can be much
>
>smaller. I remember cars of old with A-pillars so small you could wrap
>
>your hand around it and the fingers would touch.
>
>
>
>Side question: Why has it become fashionable to reduce the size of
>
>windows as much as possible (creating huge pillars and reducing
>
>visibility), and then painting an inch or more of the edges black?
>
>
>
>Lee Hart
>
>
>
>--
>
>There is a computer disease that anybody who works with computers knows
>
>about. It's very serious, and interferes completely with your work. The
>
>trouble with computers is that you 'play' with them! (Richard Feynman)
>
>--
>
>Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>
>ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
>
>INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: a-pillar blind spot (OT)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On 7 Nov 2019 at 11:17, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

> Side question: Why has it become fashionable to reduce the size of
> windows as much as possible (creating huge pillars and reducing
> visibility), and then painting an inch or more of the edges black?

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I think I read some years ago that by
making the windows small and darkening them radically, US automakers were
responding to their customers' perceptions that they felt "safer" when other
people (presumably evildoers) couldn't easily see into their vehicles.  IMO
that actually makes the vehicles LESS safe because the driver can't see
potential hazards as well as before, but what do I know?

The A pillars have been widened to accommodate the curtain air bags.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: a-pillar blind spot (OT)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
 >> (The projector system) has to know exactly where your eye is, to
position the image correctly.

My understanding is that Tesla already has the ability to program the
headrests on seats to follow the movement of the passengers heads so
to keep the cushion directly behind as a safety feature. Couple
similar technology to facial recognition, and I'm sure algorithms
could be written, if they don't already exist, to shape the angle and
perspective of the projected image to prevent serious distortion.
Such processing might also compensate for projecting the image on a
surface that isn't flat or perpendicular to the viewer's eye.

Also consider that the human brain is a powerful processor of it's
own. Present the information, even with distortion, and within a
limited amount of time, it would all make perfect sense to our, uh, senses.

The ability to perhaps add a bit of thermal imaging at night might be
a big boost as well. Make pedestrians and bicyclists stand out a
little bit more, as well as the odd wildlife getting too close to the
road outside the illumination of the headlights.

A 180 degree virtual and actual view of what's around the front and
sides of the car is brilliant! My only concern is that telemarkers
will figure out a way to add advertising to the view...

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Re: a-pillar blind spot (OT)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
From: "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>
>> Car buyers have massively indicated (to market researchers) that they
>> want to feel secure in their cars and they (incorrectly) associate
>> this with tinted and small windows, so they cannot be seen inside
>> their vehicles, that is why especially rear windows have become
>> increasingly smaller. Front windows are required to offer a minimal
>> amount of view, but with paint you can make the edges smaller and
>> conceal any transitions, rubber and other imperfections.

I have seen data on this. But it seems like a mistake to compromise
safety for the sake of style. We're already seeing this trend for
rear-view mirrors.

Taken to the extreme, this mentality leads to *no* windows, with cameras
and video screens replacing them. Imagine what happens when a screen or
camera fails!

>> Width of A-pillars has to do with safety rating for roll-over as well
>> as stiffness of the unibody. That is why in a collision or even a
>> severe pothole, a window can bust as it is glued in to add to the
>> stiffness.

Understood. But again, that's not the only way to do it. Stiffness can
be achieved with a large tube of thin material; or a small tube of
thicker material.

Gluing windshields in with a thin non-flexible seal is an invitation for
breakage. They can also be mounted with a thicker, more flexible seal to
reduce stress and breakage. This has been done for many decades.

Auto glass has also gotten so thin that it is more flexible, and easier
to break.

Peri Hartman wrote:
 > Yes, with the aerodynamic slope of the windshield, the A-pillar has
 > become longer and fatter. However, the other design elements blocking
 > vision to the diagonals are just plain stupid. If I were to have a
 > liable accident due to this blind spot, I would definitely sue the
 > manufacturer.
 >
 > My approach to being proactive is to lean to the right so I can see
 > around the left pillar, which I do a lot. The right pillar isn't so
 > bad.

Agreed. Our Prius and Leaf both have poor side and rear visibility. It's
not just them; all makes and models suffer from it. The newer the car,
the worse it seems to get.

As an engineer, it seems like sacrificing function for styling.

Lee
--
There is a computer disease that anybody who works with computers knows
about. It's very serious, and interferes completely with your work. The
trouble with computers is that you 'play' with them! (Richard Feynman)
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: a-pillar blind spot (OT)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote:
> A 180 degree virtual and actual view of what's around the front and
> sides of the car is brilliant! My only concern is that telemarkers will
> figure out a way to add advertising to the view...

Oh no! Let's not give telemarketers yet another way to shove ads in our
faces!

--
There is a computer disease that anybody who works with computers knows
about. It's very serious, and interferes completely with your work. The
trouble with computers is that you 'play' with them! (Richard Feynman)
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: a-pillar blind spot (OT)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On 7 Nov 2019 at 15:33, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

> Oh no! Let's not give telemarketers yet another way to shove ads in our
> faces!

These days it appears that most production EVs are emulating Tesla and
slapping tablet-like touch screens in the middle of their instrument panels.
They're all "connected," to one extent or another, and they boast that they
can link to your mobile phone.  It can't be much longer before we're being
dunned with offers to "Charge your EV for free with Google Charge (tm)!  Get
the app today!"  

Naturally the ads on that screen will be tailored to what they know about
you.  That'll be quite a lot, since in addition to your phone reporting who
you call and text, and what websites you visit, your EV will be reporting
where you drive and maybe even what you talk about with your passengers.

If the number of people willing to accept ads on their moble phones to save
paying a buck or so for apps is any indication, it'll be a hit.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: a-pillar blind spot (OT)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
> These days it appears that most production EVs are emulating Tesla and
> slapping tablet-like touch screens in the middle of their instrument panels.
> They're all "connected," to one extent or another, and they boast that they
> can link to your mobile phone.  It can't be much longer before we're being
> dunned with offers to "Charge your EV for free with Google Charge (tm)!  Get
> the app today!"

The overpowering influence of Big Business and Advertising reminds me of
the science fiction classic "The Space Merchants"
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Space_Merchants> It describes a
dystopian future that sounds very much like our world today. It
describes a world run by big corporations, with advertising used to
brainwash the public into buying whatever ineffective, addictive, or
even dangerous products will make them the most money. It's rated as the
24th best SF novel of all time, right up there with "The Martian
Chronicles" and "The War of the Worlds".

Lee Hart

--
There is a computer disease that anybody who works with computers knows
about. It's very serious, and interferes completely with your work. The
trouble with computers is that you 'play' with them! (Richard Feynman)
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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