cooling the EVNetics controller

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cooling the EVNetics controller

Willie McKemie
Cogitating on my slow flash during very hot weather, I developed the
idea of routing my heater water through the controller.  My heater
reservoir is aluminum and about 2"x6"x12".  A half gallon or more.  
Maybe a gallon.  When the controller needs cooling, I will not need
the heater.  And when I need the heater, the controller will not
need cooling.  So, I just circulate heater fluid through the
controller during hot weather and leave the controller air cooled when
I might need the heater.  Anyone see anything wrong with that?  I
would need a really tiny pump, maybe 1/10 gpm or 2/10 gpm.  What pumps
like that are available?

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  162 days  8 hours 06 minutes

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Re: cooling the EVNetics controller

Roland Wiench
Hello Willie,

My Café Electric Controller requires about 1 gpm as per specific by Otmar.
He recommends a Maxi-Jet 1200 which is use for marine aquariums which you
can get at any places that sell this type of stuff.

You can either run this pump using a small DC-AC 100 watt inverter that
comes off the 12 volt accessory system, or use a larger DC-AC inverter like
I do which runs three 120 volt electric heaters, pumps and fans.

The Maxi-Jet 1200 has a outlet stub that will fit a 3/8 inch hose and a
inlet stub that fits a 3/4 inch hose.  The 3/8 hose is pipe to a oil cooler
radiator that is mounted in front of the A/C radiator which has a cooling
fan on it.

A 3/8 hose comes out of this radiator to a drain value and to the
controller.  Then a 3/8 hose comes out of the controller to a one of those
remote reservoir tanks that is use on low slung cars that have there
radiators mounted low and have this fill tank mounted high.  I mounted this
tank, so the fluid level is higher then the controller fluid level.

These tanks normally have a 3/8 inch and a 3/4 inch hose stub, so I
connected the Maxi-Jet 1200 3/4 pipe stub to the tank 3/4 tank stub with a
short hose coupler.

I run the controller cooling pumps all the time, even if its 30 F. below to
140 F. above.  Even if its only 80 F. air temperature, the under hood
temperature in my EV got up to 140F.

Yes, you could cool the controller and use it for the heater, if you use the
recommended anti-freeze that is use for the controller, and you have use the
standard anti-freeze in heating system, there may be a reaction between the
two different metals.

My heat sink in my controller is copper, so I use a a copper oil cooler and
no aluminum, steel or plated fittings in the system.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Willie McKemie" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 12:15 PM
Subject: [EVDL] cooling the EVNetics controller


> Cogitating on my slow flash during very hot weather, I developed the
> idea of routing my heater water through the controller.  My heater
> reservoir is aluminum and about 2"x6"x12".  A half gallon or more.
> Maybe a gallon.  When the controller needs cooling, I will not need
> the heater.  And when I need the heater, the controller will not
> need cooling.  So, I just circulate heater fluid through the
> controller during hot weather and leave the controller air cooled when
> I might need the heater.  Anyone see anything wrong with that?  I
> would need a really tiny pump, maybe 1/10 gpm or 2/10 gpm.  What pumps
> like that are available?
>
> --
> Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
> http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
> Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  162 days  8 hours 06 minutes
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
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>

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Re: cooling the EVNetics controller

Jeffrey Jenkins
In reply to this post by Willie McKemie
Willie McKemie-3 wrote
...
So, I just circulate heater fluid through the
controller during hot weather and leave the controller air cooled when
I might need the heater.  Anyone see anything wrong with that?  I
would need a really tiny pump, maybe 1/10 gpm or 2/10 gpm.  What pumps
like that are available?
Perfectly acceptable, but make sure you use "aluminum safe" anti-freeze in the usual 50/50 mix.

You'll also need quite a but more coolant flow - say 1-2GPM. 0.5GPM might be okay, but anything less than that will be pointless (the heater will boil the coolant while the air from the vents remains cool - the Soliton1 probably won't care so much, but you won't see much benefit from 0.2GPM, either).

As for pumps... Rebirth Auto has tried a few but with mixed results. The ShurFlo seem to be reliable, but are loud. Cheap fuel pumps like those made by "Facet" fall apart in the presence of antifreeze and/or water. Oddly enough, the pumps for cooling high end computer systems seem to work the best, but the jury is still out on reliability.

Oh, I have heard that the cooling kit sold by EV Source is pretty good:

http://evsource.com/tls_cooling.php

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Re: cooling the EVNetics controller

dave cover-2
Jeff, and others

Have you heard of a product used with dirt bikes called "Engine Ice"?
It's a propylene glycol based coolant that's supposed to have better
heat transfer properties, higher temp range, is non-toxic, better for
the environment, etc. etc. You just can't mix it with regular coolant.
I've been using it in my 4 stroke dirt bike and I'm thinking of using
it to cool my controller. I wonder if it might work better at keeping
controllers cool?

Dave Cover

PS It's a nice shade of purple.

On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 7:49 AM, Jeffrey Jenkins
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Willie McKemie-3 wrote:
>> ...
>> So, I just circulate heater fluid through the
>> controller during hot weather and leave the controller air cooled when
>> I might need the heater.  Anyone see anything wrong with that?  I
>> would need a really tiny pump, maybe 1/10 gpm or 2/10 gpm.  What pumps
>> like that are available?
>
> Perfectly acceptable, but make sure you use "aluminum safe" anti-freeze in
> the usual 50/50 mix.
>
> You'll also need quite a but more coolant flow - say 1-2GPM. 0.5GPM might be
> okay, but anything less than that will be pointless (the heater will boil
> the coolant while the air from the vents remains cool - the Soliton1
> probably won't care so much, but you won't see much benefit from 0.2GPM,
> either).
>
> As for pumps... Rebirth Auto has tried a few but with mixed results. The
> ShurFlo seem to be reliable, but are loud. Cheap fuel pumps like those made
> by "Facet" fall apart in the presence of antifreeze and/or water. Oddly
> enough, the pumps for cooling high end computer systems seem to work the
> best, but the jury is still out on reliability.
>
> Oh, I have heard that the cooling kit sold by EV Source is pretty good:
>
> http://evsource.com/tls_cooling.php http://evsource.com/tls_cooling.php
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/cooling-the-EVNetics-controller-tp2332835p2333412.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>



--
http://www.evalbum.com/2149

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Re: cooling the EVNetics controller

Jeff Shanab
In reply to this post by Willie McKemie
I tried a few differeent pumps even the one for the larger water cooled computer systems and, to be honest,
even that was not totally up to the task. They had to be perfectly installed and had an awful time getting
the air out of the system. They would very easily loose prime if a buble got in the system and that was it.

I then got the Laing pump from EV Source (I already had the CPU radiator) And I can confirm t is worth the
money. It is automotive grade. quiet and just plain does the job.
4050 lb EV on zilla 1K in 110 degree weather without problems.

> Willie McKemie-3 wrote:
>> > ...
>> > So, I just circulate heater fluid through the
>> > controller during hot weather and leave the controller air cooled when
>> > I might need the heater.  Anyone see anything wrong with that?  I
>> > would need a really tiny pump, maybe 1/10 gpm or 2/10 gpm.  What pumps
>> > like that are available?
> Perfectly acceptable, but make sure you use "aluminum safe" anti-freeze in
> the usual 50/50 mix.
>
> You'll also need quite a but more coolant flow - say 1-2GPM. 0.5GPM might be
> okay, but anything less than that will be pointless (the heater will boil
> the coolant while the air from the vents remains cool - the Soliton1
> probably won't care so much, but you won't see much benefit from 0.2GPM,
> either).
>
> As for pumps... Rebirth Auto has tried a few but with mixed results. The
> ShurFlo seem to be reliable, but are loud. Cheap fuel pumps like those made
> by "Facet" fall apart in the presence of antifreeze and/or water. Oddly
> enough, the pumps for cooling high end computer systems seem to work the
> best, but the jury is still out on reliability.
>
> Oh, I have heard that the cooling kit sold by EV Source is pretty good:
>
> http://evsource.com/tls_cooling.php http://evsource.com/tls_cooling.php 
>

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Re: cooling the EVNetics controller

Steve Clunn
In reply to this post by Willie McKemie
 Hi Roland
     One problem I had with running the water pump on a 120 inverter
is that if there is a brown out on the 12 v system some inverters will
shut down and not come back on till there power is shut off and turned
back on .. so you also need something to tell you your 120ac is
running ,, not hard but more stuff ,, there are water circulating
pumps for computers that run off 12v but they do cost some money  ...
I haven't tried this yet but was thinking of doing a set up like the
way some solar water heaters work , there are some designs that work
on the hot water rising and the cold water sinking , Could have a
cooler out side on the  hood and its input ( water in put ) to
controller , the out put of the controller would go up as hot water
rises , then as the water cools in Fancy hood ordainment the cold
water being heaver would sink to a small tank at a low part of the
car, which would then feed back to the other water inlet on the
controller .. I kind of think running a controller that has the water
cooled  set up with out it is kind of like running a gas car with half
its oil ,, you can do it ,, and if you don't drive hard you might not
have a any problems , .   Tell the guy who changes your oil not to
fill it up as you don't drive hard and the car maker has said the
engine will still run with only 1/2 its oil .. and see what he say.
Steve Clunn
--
Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com

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Re: cooling the EVNetics controller

Mike Willmon
In reply to this post by Jeff Shanab
I agree, the Laing D4/D5 water pumps are worth the money.  Fairly quiet too.  I can barely hear them in the Electrabishi as well as
the Pinto.  But its just enough to let me know they are working.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:46 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling the EVNetics controller
>
> I tried a few differeent pumps even the one for the larger water cooled computer systems and, to be honest,
> even that was not totally up to the task. They had to be perfectly installed and had an awful time getting
> the air out of the system. They would very easily loose prime if a buble got in the system and that was it.
>
> I then got the Laing pump from EV Source (I already had the CPU radiator) And I can confirm t is worth the
> money. It is automotive grade. quiet and just plain does the job.
> 4050 lb EV on zilla 1K in 110 degree weather without problems.
>
> > Willie McKemie-3 wrote:
> >> > ...
> >> > So, I just circulate heater fluid through the
> >> > controller during hot weather and leave the controller air cooled when
> >> > I might need the heater.  Anyone see anything wrong with that?  I
> >> > would need a really tiny pump, maybe 1/10 gpm or 2/10 gpm.  What pumps
> >> > like that are available?
> > Perfectly acceptable, but make sure you use "aluminum safe" anti-freeze in
> > the usual 50/50 mix.
> >
> > You'll also need quite a but more coolant flow - say 1-2GPM. 0.5GPM might be
> > okay, but anything less than that will be pointless (the heater will boil
> > the coolant while the air from the vents remains cool - the Soliton1
> > probably won't care so much, but you won't see much benefit from 0.2GPM,
> > either).
> >
> > As for pumps... Rebirth Auto has tried a few but with mixed results. The
> > ShurFlo seem to be reliable, but are loud. Cheap fuel pumps like those made
> > by "Facet" fall apart in the presence of antifreeze and/or water. Oddly
> > enough, the pumps for cooling high end computer systems seem to work the
> > best, but the jury is still out on reliability.
> >
> > Oh, I have heard that the cooling kit sold by EV Source is pretty good:
> >
> > http://evsource.com/tls_cooling.php http://evsource.com/tls_cooling.php
> >


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Re: cooling the EVNetics controller

Roland Wiench
In reply to this post by Steve Clunn
Hello Steve,

I am running a 6kw inverter off a 12 volt deep cycle battery which is charge
by a Delco inverter-alternator that is rated for 110 VDC at 7kw.

With this setup, It has work since 1985 since in install it.  Now while on
the road, the only problem I had was that the battery went bad and I could
not get a start up.  I carry a long set of No. 10 gage wires, so I can jump
12 volts of the main battery pack.

Latter I install a DC-DC converter which I can give my self a jump start by
just turning a switch on the dash.  One converter will not work running all
the 12 vdc systems, so I now have 180 amps of converters, which I could use
as a backup.

Roland



----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Clunn" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cooling the EVNetics controller


> Hi Roland
>      One problem I had with running the water pump on a 120 inverter
> is that if there is a brown out on the 12 v system some inverters will
> shut down and not come back on till there power is shut off and turned
> back on .. so you also need something to tell you your 120ac is
> running ,, not hard but more stuff ,, there are water circulating
> pumps for computers that run off 12v but they do cost some money  ...
> I haven't tried this yet but was thinking of doing a set up like the
> way some solar water heaters work , there are some designs that work
> on the hot water rising and the cold water sinking , Could have a
> cooler out side on the  hood and its input ( water in put ) to
> controller , the out put of the controller would go up as hot water
> rises , then as the water cools in Fancy hood ordainment the cold
> water being heaver would sink to a small tank at a low part of the
> car, which would then feed back to the other water inlet on the
> controller .. I kind of think running a controller that has the water
> cooled  set up with out it is kind of like running a gas car with half
> its oil ,, you can do it ,, and if you don't drive hard you might not
> have a any problems , .   Tell the guy who changes your oil not to
> fill it up as you don't drive hard and the car maker has said the
> engine will still run with only 1/2 its oil .. and see what he say.
> Steve Clunn
> --
> Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
> Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Re: cooling the EVNetics controller

Steve Clunn
In reply to this post by Willie McKemie
 Hi
    One problem I had with running the water pump on a 120 inverter
is that if there is a brown out on the 12 v system some inverters will
shut down and not come back on till there power is shut off and turned
back on .. so you also need something to tell you your 120ac is
running ,, not hard but more stuff ,, the water circulating
pumps for computers that run off 12v will give you problems if run dry
as the water cools the pump , they do cost some money  ...
I haven't tried this yet but was thinking of doing a set up like the
way some solar water heaters work , there are some designs that work
on the hot water rising and the cold water sinking , Could have a
cooler out side on the  hood and its input ( water in put ) to
controller , the out put of the controller would go up as hot water
rises , then as the water cools in Fancy hood ordainment the cold
water being heaver would sink to a small tank at a low part of the
car, which would then feed back to the other water inlet on the
controller .. I kind of think running a controller that has the water
cooled  set up with out it is kind of like running a gas car with half
its oil ,, you can do it ,, and if you don't drive hard you might not
have a any problems , .   Tell the guy who changes your oil not to
fill it up as you don't drive hard and the car maker has said the
engine will still run with only 1/2 its oil .. and see what he say.
Steve Clunn

--
Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com

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