coupling to wagon wheel

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
32 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Current Cost energy meter

rodhower
Has anybody used this?  What do you think about this device?
http://www.currentcost.net/buynowmain.html

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current Cost energy meter

Zeke Yewdall
I've used their previous version, and it worked pretty well and was easy to
install, but does not measure voltage -- which means it cannot measure power
factor.  It does an assumed power factor of about 0.85 from what I could
tell.  This means that on a lower power factor load, it will underestimate
energy use, and on a unity power factor load, will overestimate use.   There
will also be a little error if your utility is running the voltage different
than 240 .. alot of them run it a bit high.   If more accuracy is of
concern, the TED is a better unit, as it measures voltage and can account
for power factor of the load.  But, it also costs a bit more for the one
that can interface with the google power meter.

Z

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 8:17 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Has anybody used this?  What do you think about this device?
> http://www.currentcost.net/buynowmain.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100901/11bc27f5/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current Cost energy meter

Mike Nickerson
In reply to this post by rodhower
I haven't used that particular meter, but I have used a current meter which
was very similar.  The USB and Network connectivity is a nice feature I
didn't have before!

The problem with meters like this is that they show you the overall usage of
the house, but don't necessarily help you understand what exactly is using
the power inside the house.  Which circuit and which device is using the
majority of the power?  Knowing when the usage spikes in real-time can help
you walk around and see what's active at that time, but there are more
direct ways to do that.

They don't mention it in the installation instructions, but a current sensor
like that should be usable on a branch circuit.  I don't know if this one is
or not.  If it is, this can be handy because you can put the sensor around
individual wires and measure circuit usage.  However, this can be difficult,
because you can't put it around a multi-conductor cable, it has to be around
each, separate wire, after they are broken out of the cable.  I was able to
find a few places in my box to do this around a few circuits, such as water
heaters and the clothes dryer.  (The feed wires they're placing the sensors
on in the box are individual feed cables from the meter.)

If you were to consistently do this on every circuit, I am willing to bet
there would be surprises.  I was running my furnace blower full time to
circulate the air.  It wasn't the largest consumer of power instantaneously,
but because it was running 24x7, it was one of the most expensive devices.

For individual devices on a 120v circuit, a Kill-A-Watt is really hard to
beat.  For 220V devices, I used the current meter to understand their
instantaneous draw and then a 220v hour meter to find out how often/long
they were running.  Luckily, most of those big devices (water heaters,
furnaces, etc.) run pretty much all on or all off.  Once you know their
draw, you can calculate their power usage by knowing how long they run
(hours running per month * amps * 220V / 1000 = kWH/month).  It's not
elegant, but it works.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:18 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Current Cost energy meter

Has anybody used this?  What do you think about this device?
http://www.currentcost.net/buynowmain.html

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

MetroLectrical Battery Box

wjdennis@qwest.net
Here's a photo of the MetroLectrical's under-the-hood layout with the
new battery box and LiFePO4 cells.

http://sedwjd.zenfolio.com/battbox/h22da0181#h22da0181

Bill

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Lithium-Ion Battery Prices Set to Drop

rodhower
In reply to this post by Mike Nickerson
http://ecogeek.org/component/content/article/3282

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: MetroLectrical Battery Box

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by wjdennis@qwest.net
On 9/1/2010 11:45 PM, Bill Dennis wrote:
> Here's a photo of the MetroLectrical's under-the-hood layout with the
> new battery box and LiFePO4 cells.
> http://sedwjd.zenfolio.com/battbox/h22da0181#h22da0181

Wow; it looks like a tight fit. Good job packing it all in.

What are all the little fans for? They are only on certain cells, and
don't seem to have any place to blow the air to?  What are the yellow
and white lithium cells hiding under the front grille for?

How do you keep dirt and water out of all this? Lots of the parts and
wiring appear to be exposed to the elements.
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: MetroLectrical Battery Box

wjdennis@qwest.net
In reply to this post by wjdennis@qwest.net
Lee,

1)  The little fans blow air down into the battery box.  The only way for
the air to get out is to go down through the vertical cell ribs, along the
cells ribs at the bottom of the box, and out holes drilled into the left
side of the battery box.  Yes, it's a tight fit.  The little fans actually
fit up into the crevaces between the hood skeleton.

2) Instead of a 12V PbA cell and a DC/DC converter, I'm just using Lithium
cells.  Two LiFePO4 200Ah cells in series with two Li-Cobol 200Ah cells.
This gives 14.4V when the cells are fully charged.  At night, I just charge
those four cells at the same time I'm charging the traction pack.  Weight
of the 4 Lithium cells is about the same as the stock PbA + DC/DC.

3)  It doesn't show up well in the photo, but almost everything is
enclosed.  The little fans, for example, are screwed to a plastic cover
over the battery box.  Down in the lower right of the picture, the two
contactors and motor shut are in a plastic box.  In the middle of the
picture, I currently have the lid off the gray plastic box so you can see
the two shunts inside.  Back near the firewall, plastic covers the main
battery shunt and connections.  Also, under the battery box are pieces of
exterior grade rigid insulation that pretty much keeps road splash off the
parts.  On the right hand side, near the front, the relays for the
Pre-charge and KeySwitch are inclosed in a waterproof electrical box.  In
the lower left of the picture, the EVision is enclosed in that white box.
Rubber glands wrap around all the high-voltage wiring where it enters
enclosures.

Bill  

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Lee Hart [hidden email]
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 10:01:14 -0500
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] MetroLectrical Battery Box


On 9/1/2010 11:45 PM, Bill Dennis wrote:
> Here's a photo of the MetroLectrical's under-the-hood layout with the
> new battery box and LiFePO4 cells.
> http://sedwjd.zenfolio.com/battbox/h22da0181#h22da0181

Wow; it looks like a tight fit. Good job packing it all in.

What are all the little fans for? They are only on certain cells, and
don't seem to have any place to blow the air to?  What are the yellow
and white lithium cells hiding under the front grille for?

How do you keep dirt and water out of all this? Lots of the parts and
wiring appear to be exposed to the elements.
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web.com - Microsoft® Exchange solutions from a leading provider -
http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange



_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: MetroLectrical Battery Box

wjdennis@qwest.net
In reply to this post by wjdennis@qwest.net
Lee,
  I should mention that soil heating cables run in the ribs along the
bottom of the cells to keep the cells up to temperature in winter.  They
come on when the box temp falls below 75-degrees F and pull 2 amps.  So I
could leave them on all day at work at drain only 20Ah.

Bill

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Lee Hart [hidden email]
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 10:01:14 -0500
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] MetroLectrical Battery Box


On 9/1/2010 11:45 PM, Bill Dennis wrote:
> Here's a photo of the MetroLectrical's under-the-hood layout with the
> new battery box and LiFePO4 cells.
> http://sedwjd.zenfolio.com/battbox/h22da0181#h22da0181

Wow; it looks like a tight fit. Good job packing it all in.

What are all the little fans for? They are only on certain cells, and
don't seem to have any place to blow the air to?  What are the yellow
and white lithium cells hiding under the front grille for?

How do you keep dirt and water out of all this? Lots of the parts and
wiring appear to be exposed to the elements.
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web.com – Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft®
Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail



_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current Cost energy meter

Peter VanDerWal
In reply to this post by Zeke Yewdall
Can either of these measure which direction the power is flowing?

I recently installed a solar array so sometimes the power flows out to the
grid instead of in.

> If more accuracy is of
> concern, the TED is a better unit, as it measures voltage and can account
> for power factor of the load.
-snip-
>> Has anybody used this?  What do you think about this device?
>> http://www.currentcost.net/buynowmain.html

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current Cost energy meter

Lee Hart
On 9/2/2010 4:07 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Can either of these measure which direction the power is flowing?

I don't know about these, but the popular Kill-A-Watt does *not*
correctly sense direction of power flow. I have a grid tie inverter, and
the Kill-A-Watt displays positive power no matter which way it's
flowing. It appears to just take volts x amps.

Its power factor conversion also assumes sinusoidal current, so it reads
high for things like switching power supplies or non-PFC battery chargers.

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current Cost energy meter

Zeke Yewdall
The old ted's do not.... they just assume it's always positive, so if you
have a PV system, you need to make sure that it feeds in upstream of the
measurement (easy with some sorts of interconnections, but not for a backfed
breaker in the main panel, which is probably the most common type).  I had
two of them on my house... one measuring just PV production, and one
measuring the main loads panel, as my PV was connected with a line side tap
upstream of the breaker panel (but still downstream of the utility meter, of
course).  TED now claims to have a PV compatible one, but I think it just
uses two sets of CT's.

Yes, kill-a-watts only measure current in the nuetral leg, and multiply it
by line to nuetral voltage (with power factor taken into account), and
assume it's always positive power.  I've used them to measure 220vac as well
by running one hot leg through the nuetral, one around the meter entirely,
and the nuetral through the meter's hot leg... it works, but I'd never do it
outside of my own house (experiment station...).

Z

On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Lee Hart <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 9/2/2010 4:07 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > Can either of these measure which direction the power is flowing?
>
> I don't know about these, but the popular Kill-A-Watt does *not*
> correctly sense direction of power flow. I have a grid tie inverter, and
> the Kill-A-Watt displays positive power no matter which way it's
> flowing. It appears to just take volts x amps.
>
> Its power factor conversion also assumes sinusoidal current, so it reads
> high for things like switching power supplies or non-PFC battery chargers.
>
> --
> Lee A. Hart             | Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave N           | Forget the perfect offering
> Sartell MN 56377        | There is a crack in everything
> leeahart earthlink.net  | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100902/308fe741/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: MetroLectrical Battery Box

Mike Golub-2
In reply to this post by wjdennis@qwest.net
how long is your soil heating cables?
are you powering them with your batteries?

On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:37 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Lee,
>  I should mention that soil heating cables run in the ribs along the
> bottom of the cells to keep the cells up to temperature in winter.  They
> come on when the box temp falls below 75-degrees F and pull 2 amps.  So I
> could leave them on all day at work at drain only 20Ah.
>
> Bill
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Lee Hart [hidden email]
> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 10:01:14 -0500
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] MetroLectrical Battery Box
>
>
> On 9/1/2010 11:45 PM, Bill Dennis wrote:
> > Here's a photo of the MetroLectrical's under-the-hood layout with the
> > new battery box and LiFePO4 cells.
> > http://sedwjd.zenfolio.com/battbox/h22da0181#h22da0181
>
> Wow; it looks like a tight fit. Good job packing it all in.
>
> What are all the little fans for? They are only on certain cells, and
> don't seem to have any place to blow the air to?  What are the yellow
> and white lithium cells hiding under the front grille for?
>
> How do you keep dirt and water out of all this? Lots of the parts and
> wiring appear to be exposed to the elements.
> --
> Lee A. Hart             | Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave N           | Forget the perfect offering
> Sartell MN 56377        | There is a crack in everything
> leeahart earthlink.net  | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web.com – Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on
> Microsoft®
> Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100902/b2641520/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
12