first highway trip in the jeep

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first highway trip in the jeep

Ben Jarrett



Hey everyone,

So version 2.0 of my Jeep conversion is up and running now (http://evalbum.com/4001).

I did my first highway test today.  Only went about 2 miles.  I think I got up to about
65 MPH (speedometer isn't calibrated yet and it was a bit hard to read my free iphone
speedometer app).  It did look like I was using 200+ battery amps which is more than I was
hoping for.  I guess my brick-like aerodynamics are hurting me a bit.  Also, my Soliton 1
was firing the warning light so it appears I started hitting a high temp on the controller.
It was about 90 degrees in Austin today and I drove about 5 miles before getting on the highway.
I guess liquid cooling is in my future.  Also, I plan to make some minor modes to the jeep
front to improve aerodynamics (what can I say... I like a challenge.)

My other gripe is that my tranny is still pretty loud.  I used some sound deadener, but
that only helped a little bit.

Good news.  I was very happy with how things aligned on my new canev adapter and my
new belktronics dc/dc converter appears up for the task of not blowing up (can't say
the same for my Elcon unit - I think my voltage was too high for that one).  

All in all, I'm pretty pleased.  My kids love going for rides and unlike my last CJ7
(a '77 carbureted v8), there's no nauseous fumes!

-ben

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Re: first highway trip in the jeep

Willie2
On Sun, Jun 03, 2012 at 08:34:40PM -0500, Ben Jarrett wrote:
> hoping for.  I guess my brick-like aerodynamics are hurting me a bit.  Also, my Soliton 1
> was firing the warning light so it appears I started hitting a high temp on the controller.
> It was about 90 degrees in Austin today and I drove about 5 miles before getting on the highway.
> I guess liquid cooling is in my future.  Also, I plan to make some minor modes to the jeep
> front to improve aerodynamics (what can I say... I like a challenge.)

Two summers ago, before Steve Clunn installed liquid cooling, my
Soliton would blink it's error light whenever ambient was 100 or so.  
Never when 90.  I never interrogated the controller; just assumed it
was getting hot.  I hardly ever use much power out of the Soliton so
I didn't notice any performance hit.

BTW, I now have a wireless router with a DHCP server running installed
semi-permanently in the car.  Powered from the pack with a universal
wall wart.  It hands out IP addresses compatible with the Soliton so
any near by wifi computer can easily access the Soliton.

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  75 days 15 hours 43 minutes

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Re: first highway trip in the jeep

Ben Jarrett


Sounds pretty cool.  I'd like to get an iphone app that could access the Soliton.
I guess I could use Safari with your setup...

-ben

On Jun 3, 2012, at 8:52 PM, Willie McKemie wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 03, 2012 at 08:34:40PM -0500, Ben Jarrett wrote:
>> hoping for.  I guess my brick-like aerodynamics are hurting me a bit.  Also, my Soliton 1
>> was firing the warning light so it appears I started hitting a high temp on the controller.
>> It was about 90 degrees in Austin today and I drove about 5 miles before getting on the highway.
>> I guess liquid cooling is in my future.  Also, I plan to make some minor modes to the jeep
>> front to improve aerodynamics (what can I say... I like a challenge.)
>
> Two summers ago, before Steve Clunn installed liquid cooling, my
> Soliton would blink it's error light whenever ambient was 100 or so.  
> Never when 90.  I never interrogated the controller; just assumed it
> was getting hot.  I hardly ever use much power out of the Soliton so
> I didn't notice any performance hit.
>
> BTW, I now have a wireless router with a DHCP server running installed
> semi-permanently in the car.  Powered from the pack with a universal
> wall wart.  It hands out IP addresses compatible with the Soliton so
> any near by wifi computer can easily access the Soliton.
>
> --
> Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
> http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
> Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  75 days 15 hours 43 minutes
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: first highway trip in the jeep

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Ben Jarrett
On 6/3/2012 8:34 PM, Ben Jarrett wrote:
> So version 2.0 of my Jeep conversion is up and running now (http://evalbum.com/4001).

Congratulations! I'll bet you have that "EV grin" well all talk about. :-)

> It did look like I was using 200+ battery amps which is more than I was
> hoping for.

That *is* a lot. At what speed?

One crude test is to see if you can push the vehicle with one hand. If
you can't, something somewhere is dragging. Could be dragging brakes,
soft or high rolling resistance tires, misaligned suspension, etc.

Another is to lift the driven wheels off the ground, and run the motor.
The current draw from the pack to slowly turn the wheels should be just
1 or 2 amps. The motor will actually be running at something like 6v at
25 amps, but the controller translates that into (say) 120v at 1.5 amps
at the battery.

> My other gripe is that my tranny is still pretty loud.

Yeah, it's interesting how loud we discover other parts of the car are
once the engine noise is gone!

--
If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?
        -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: first highway trip in the jeep

Cor van de Water
At what speed were you driving when consumption was 200+ Amps?
My truck has pretty wide tires, even though they are Tigerpaw
and supposed to be LRR, but at 60 MPH I am also over 200A
even though that is at an actual 110V (from a 120V pack) and
a weight that I did not yet measure but must be >4000 lbs.

My previous truck has a 312V pack and at a constant 55 MPH
the consumption was around 15kW to maintain that speed.
That truck had slightly narrower tires (205 IIRC) and they
were over-inflated to 50 PSI to give lower resistance.

At your 160V nominal pack, what was the actual voltage
into the controller?
If you get your jeep tweaked just right, you should be able to
get by on 100A to maintain 55 constant on level road, no wind
so your 200+A sounds too high indeed, but there are a lot of
things influencing the consumption!

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 8:37 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] first highway trip in the jeep

On 6/3/2012 8:34 PM, Ben Jarrett wrote:
> So version 2.0 of my Jeep conversion is up and running now
(http://evalbum.com/4001).

Congratulations! I'll bet you have that "EV grin" well all talk about.
:-)

> It did look like I was using 200+ battery amps which is more than I
> was hoping for.

That *is* a lot. At what speed?

One crude test is to see if you can push the vehicle with one hand. If
you can't, something somewhere is dragging. Could be dragging brakes,
soft or high rolling resistance tires, misaligned suspension, etc.

Another is to lift the driven wheels off the ground, and run the motor.
The current draw from the pack to slowly turn the wheels should be just
1 or 2 amps. The motor will actually be running at something like 6v at
25 amps, but the controller translates that into (say) 120v at 1.5 amps
at the battery.

> My other gripe is that my tranny is still pretty loud.

Yeah, it's interesting how loud we discover other parts of the car are
once the engine noise is gone!

--
If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?
        -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: first highway trip in the jeep

Ben Jarrett
In reply to this post by Lee Hart


thanks!

I was going about 65 when drawing 200+ amps.  I will need to do some
more runs to make sure I get a fairly accurate idea (speedometer is way off,
just ordered new speedo gear).

The Jeep does roll ok.  I don't think I have anything dragging.  I may have
a bit too much toe-in and the rear shoes may drag a tiny bit, but I feel
I have them properly setup for good braking and ebrake operation.

Jeeps are just not very easy to roll, but I like the challenge of addressing
what I can.  I may switch to rear disc at some point if I think it will help,
for example.

I have run the motor with the wheels off the ground.  I was probably more around 10 amps at the battery.
I will need to confirm this measurement (could have been while accelerating).

Thanks for the insight - I will continue to optimize my brick!

-ben


On Jun 4, 2012, at 10:36 AM, Lee Hart wrote:

> On 6/3/2012 8:34 PM, Ben Jarrett wrote:
>> So version 2.0 of my Jeep conversion is up and running now (http://evalbum.com/4001).
>
> Congratulations! I'll bet you have that "EV grin" well all talk about. :-)
>
>> It did look like I was using 200+ battery amps which is more than I was
>> hoping for.
>
> That *is* a lot. At what speed?
>
> One crude test is to see if you can push the vehicle with one hand. If
> you can't, something somewhere is dragging. Could be dragging brakes,
> soft or high rolling resistance tires, misaligned suspension, etc.
>
> Another is to lift the driven wheels off the ground, and run the motor.
> The current draw from the pack to slowly turn the wheels should be just
> 1 or 2 amps. The motor will actually be running at something like 6v at
> 25 amps, but the controller translates that into (say) 120v at 1.5 amps
> at the battery.
>
>> My other gripe is that my tranny is still pretty loud.
>
> Yeah, it's interesting how loud we discover other parts of the car are
> once the engine noise is gone!
>
> --
> If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?
> -- Albert Einstein
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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Re: first highway trip in the jeep

Cor van de Water
Note that when I increased speed from 55 to max (almost 70)
my consumption more than doubled, so it is not unheard of
to draw the amount of power (160V at 200A) at that speed,
because the wind resistance goes with the cube of the speed
so it increases very fast with increase of speed...


Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Ben Jarrett
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 12:52 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] first highway trip in the jeep



thanks!

I was going about 65 when drawing 200+ amps.  I will need to do some
more runs to make sure I get a fairly accurate idea (speedometer is way
off, just ordered new speedo gear).

The Jeep does roll ok.  I don't think I have anything dragging.  I may
have a bit too much toe-in and the rear shoes may drag a tiny bit, but I
feel I have them properly setup for good braking and ebrake operation.

Jeeps are just not very easy to roll, but I like the challenge of
addressing what I can.  I may switch to rear disc at some point if I
think it will help, for example.

I have run the motor with the wheels off the ground.  I was probably
more around 10 amps at the battery.
I will need to confirm this measurement (could have been while
accelerating).

Thanks for the insight - I will continue to optimize my brick!

-ben


On Jun 4, 2012, at 10:36 AM, Lee Hart wrote:

> On 6/3/2012 8:34 PM, Ben Jarrett wrote:
>> So version 2.0 of my Jeep conversion is up and running now
(http://evalbum.com/4001).
>
> Congratulations! I'll bet you have that "EV grin" well all talk about.

> :-)
>
>> It did look like I was using 200+ battery amps which is more than I
>> was hoping for.
>
> That *is* a lot. At what speed?
>
> One crude test is to see if you can push the vehicle with one hand. If

> you can't, something somewhere is dragging. Could be dragging brakes,
> soft or high rolling resistance tires, misaligned suspension, etc.
>
> Another is to lift the driven wheels off the ground, and run the
motor.

> The current draw from the pack to slowly turn the wheels should be
> just
> 1 or 2 amps. The motor will actually be running at something like 6v
> at
> 25 amps, but the controller translates that into (say) 120v at 1.5
> amps at the battery.
>
>> My other gripe is that my tranny is still pretty loud.
>
> Yeah, it's interesting how loud we discover other parts of the car are

> once the engine noise is gone!
>
> --
> If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would
it?

> -- Albert Einstein
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at
> earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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Re: first highway trip in the jeep

martinwinlow
In reply to this post by Ben Jarrett
Hi Ben,

200(battery)A sounds reasonable to me at 65mph.  The jeep is not the most aerodynamic of vehicles.  Does it have off-road (or at least hybrid) tyres?  If so, they won't help.

No harm in checking the suspension set up, tho.  MW


On 4 Jun 2012, at 20:52, Ben Jarrett wrote:

>
>
> thanks!
>
> I was going about 65 when drawing 200+ amps.  I will need to do some
> more runs to make sure I get a fairly accurate idea (speedometer is way off,
> just ordered new speedo gear).
>
> The Jeep does roll ok.  I don't think I have anything dragging.  I may have
> a bit too much toe-in and the rear shoes may drag a tiny bit, but I feel
> I have them properly setup for good braking and ebrake operation.
>
> Jeeps are just not very easy to roll, but I like the challenge of addressing
> what I can.  I may switch to rear disc at some point if I think it will help,
> for example.
>
> I have run the motor with the wheels off the ground.  I was probably more around 10 amps at the battery.
> I will need to confirm this measurement (could have been while accelerating).
>
> Thanks for the insight - I will continue to optimize my brick!
>
> -ben
>



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Re: first highway trip in the jeep

Mike Nickerson
In reply to this post by Cor van de Water
Another data point in case it's helpful:

Honda del Sol (not real aerodynamic either, but probably better than a jeep)
Low rolling resistance tires, inflated to 42 psi
100A (14kW) to hold 60 mph on level ground

That is another cool thing about an EV:  With meters for voltage and
current, you can easily measure your power output at any instant.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Cor van de Water
> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 1:59 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] first highway trip in the jeep
>
> Note that when I increased speed from 55 to max (almost 70) my
> consumption more than doubled, so it is not unheard of to draw the amount
> of power (160V at 200A) at that speed, because the wind resistance goes
> with the cube of the speed so it increases very fast with increase of
speed...
>
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203


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Re: first highway trip in the jeep

Ben Jarrett


I really appreciate the data points, guys.

I have ok tires.  My tires are something like kumho solus kr21 235/75 r15.  Not
too aggressive.

I plan to add some air dams up front to help smooth out air flow and up my tire pressure some
(I'm at 30psi so I'll may go to 40psi - tire max is 44psi).

It may seem silly to start with a jeep and then try to streamline it, but I find
it pretty fun.  I'm going to get a good baseline number, then start making
optimizations.

One issue I have is that the whole drivetrain has been rebuilt (transmission,
transfer case, rear axle, front axle) so all of my bearings aren't broken
in yet.  Once things break in, I expect a mild improvement.

-ben


On Jun 5, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Mike Nickerson wrote:

> Another data point in case it's helpful:
>
> Honda del Sol (not real aerodynamic either, but probably better than a jeep)
> Low rolling resistance tires, inflated to 42 psi
> 100A (14kW) to hold 60 mph on level ground
>
> That is another cool thing about an EV:  With meters for voltage and
> current, you can easily measure your power output at any instant.
>
> Mike
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>> Behalf Of Cor van de Water
>> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 1:59 PM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] first highway trip in the jeep
>>
>> Note that when I increased speed from 55 to max (almost 70) my
>> consumption more than doubled, so it is not unheard of to draw the amount
>> of power (160V at 200A) at that speed, because the wind resistance goes
>> with the cube of the speed so it increases very fast with increase of
> speed...
>>
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>> Chief Scientist
>> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
>> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>> Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
>> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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Re: first highway trip in the jeep

martinwinlow
Hi Ben,

You might find this article (and the comments that follow) useful...

http://www.instructables.com/id/Measure-the-drag-coefficient-of-your-car/

MW


On 5 Jun 2012, at 17:24, Ben Jarrett wrote:

>
>
> I really appreciate the data points, guys.
>
> I have ok tires.  My tires are something like kumho solus kr21 235/75 r15.  Not
> too aggressive.
>
> I plan to add some air dams up front to help smooth out air flow and up my tire pressure some
> (I'm at 30psi so I'll may go to 40psi - tire max is 44psi).
>
> It may seem silly to start with a jeep and then try to streamline it, but I find
> it pretty fun.  I'm going to get a good baseline number, then start making
> optimizations.
>
> One issue I have is that the whole drivetrain has been rebuilt (transmission,
> transfer case, rear axle, front axle) so all of my bearings aren't broken
> in yet.  Once things break in, I expect a mild improvement.
>
> -ben
>
>
> On Jun 5, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Mike Nickerson wrote:
>
>> Another data point in case it's helpful:
>>
>> Honda del Sol (not real aerodynamic either, but probably better than a jeep)
>> Low rolling resistance tires, inflated to 42 psi
>> 100A (14kW) to hold 60 mph on level ground
>>
>> That is another cool thing about an EV:  With meters for voltage and
>> current, you can easily measure your power output at any instant.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>>> Behalf Of Cor van de Water
>>> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 1:59 PM
>>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] first highway trip in the jeep
>>>
>>> Note that when I increased speed from 55 to max (almost 70) my
>>> consumption more than doubled, so it is not unheard of to draw the amount
>>> of power (160V at 200A) at that speed, because the wind resistance goes
>>> with the cube of the speed so it increases very fast with increase of
>> speed...
>>>
>>>
>>> Cor van de Water
>>> Chief Scientist
>>> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
>>> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>>> Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
>>> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
>> |
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk

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_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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