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large drone ?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
UPS orders electric aircraft to transport cargo between its facilities
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/ups-orders-electric-aircraft-to-transport-cargo-between-its-facilities/

UPS is ordering 10 electric aircraft that are designed to take off and
land like a helicopter, allowing it to fly cargo directly between its
facilities in small markets and bypass airports.
...
UPS has an option to purchase an additional 140 aircraft. It plans “to
take delivery and see how they perform within the network, and then move
from there,” said UPS spokesman Matthew O’Connor.
...
The eVTOL aircraft would be used to supplement cargo shipments in UPS’s
small feeder air network, currently served by contract operators that
use Beechcraft and Cessna 208 Caravan planes to fly cargo between small
and medium-sized markets.
The Beta aircraft have a 1,400-pound cargo capacity, the Associated
Press reported.
...
The Beta Technologies eVTOL aircraft are designed to have a range of 250
miles on a single charge, and be able to charge in an hour or less at
charging stations that could also be used for electric ground vehicles.
They would have a cruising speed of up to 150 miles per hour, and
produce zero emissions while operating.

---------

I think this is pretty impressive technology. Usually VTOL aircraft are
heavily compromised - they usually work more like helicopters but have
poor performance (or very high fuel usage) in other respects. But this
one can do 150 mph *and* travel 250 miles *and* carry payload.

Peri


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Re: large drone ?

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And fall out of the sky when something goes wrong.

On 4/8/2021 10:51 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> I think this is pretty impressive technology. Usually VTOL aircraft
> are heavily compromised - they usually work more like helicopters but
> have poor performance (or very high fuel usage) in other respects. But
> this one can do 150 mph *and* travel 250 miles *and* carry payload.
>
> Peri
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Re: large drone ?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list

"Falling from the sky when something goes wrong" may be overstating the
risk of this design.

Considering that it has wings and a pusher motor/prop, and that the
vertical props appear to stow away during forward flight - if there's a
problem during flight it looks like it could land like a conventional
airplane, gliding to the nearest airport or flat area rather than
falling like a rock. For the majority of its operation it appears to be
more of an airplane than a helicopter.

If there's a problem during takeoff or landing, when the vertical rotors
are apparently temporarily used, the area in peril would most likely be
a landing pad and not someone's home.

Given that it's still under development and not expected to be in use
for a few years, it will be interesting to see how it progresses as it
develops into a deliverable, certified commercial aircraft.

Cheers,
  -Jamie


On 4/8/21 9:12 PM, Alan Arrison via EV wrote:

> And fall out of the sky when something goes wrong.
>
> On 4/8/2021 10:51 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>> I think this is pretty impressive technology. Usually VTOL aircraft
>> are heavily compromised - they usually work more like helicopters but
>> have poor performance (or very high fuel usage) in other respects. But
>> this one can do 150 mph *and* travel 250 miles *and* carry payload.
>>
>> Peri
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Re: large drone ?

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In my opinion, the "delivery drones" have the wrong paradigm. The
delivery drone really doesn't need to travel long distances or carry
more than one package.

The real issue is the final 50-100 feet of delivery. The UPS driver has
to park the truck, get the package out of the back of the truck, and
carry it to the front door, then walk back to the truck, start it and go
to the next address. The "drone" should do only this "walking" portion
of the mission instead of the driver. The truck just travels by the
house, and the drone flies out of the top of the truck with the package,
and delivers it to the front door, then returns to the still moving truck.

The truck may not need to even stop, but only slow down, or not. The
drone might actually be tethered for large/heavy packages and very short
distances.

The drone does what it does best; short hops. It returns to the truck
quickly for the next package and a recharge.

The driver can ascertain if there is any problem, and intervene quickly
to correct it. The driver can opt to hand deliver a package that the
drone may not be able to deliver effectively. Perhaps dense trees, power
lines, winds, or other issues.

Bill D.

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Re: large drone ?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Bill Dube via EV wrote:
> In my opinion, the "delivery drones" have the wrong paradigm. The
> delivery drone really doesn't need to travel long distances or carry
> more than one package.
>
> The real issue is the final 50-100 feet of delivery.

Very true! Moreover, the delivery drone doesn't even have to fly. It
could equally well be a robot. Something "ground based" will also have
an easier time dealing with heavier packages, putting a package inside a
door, ringing doorbells, etc. It could be an EV, too. :-)

Lee
--
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is
nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
         -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: large drone ?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Now, Lee is really making sense.

The drone issue is highly controversial. I know the FCC is working on
rules but that's only the start. There are issues with
- noise
- safety
- privacy
- effectiveness.

The first three are obvious. Lee touches on the fourth. There are
problems with accessing covered porches, avoiding eaves, bushes, wires,
and other aerial obstructions.

On the other hand, a robot device could navigate anywhere a human does.
It could also be loading the next stop's package(s) while the truck is
traveling. Couple that with autonomous vehicles (in some future century
:) and the whole process becomes much more efficient than today.

Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

------ Original Message ------
From: "Lee Hart via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: "Bill Dube via EV" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Lee Hart" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 09-Apr-21 8:42:12 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] large drone ?

>Bill Dube via EV wrote:
>>In my opinion, the "delivery drones" have the wrong paradigm. The delivery drone really doesn't need to travel long distances or carry more than one package.
>>
>>The real issue is the final 50-100 feet of delivery.
>
>Very true! Moreover, the delivery drone doesn't even have to fly. It could equally well be a robot. Something "ground based" will also have an easier time dealing with heavier packages, putting a package inside a door, ringing doorbells, etc. It could be an EV, too. :-)
>
>Lee
>-- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is
>nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
>         -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
>--
>Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
>-- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
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Re: large drone ?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Drone deliveries might have made sense 10 year ago when Amazon announced they were working on it.  Back then folks maybe got packages from Amazon once a month, or heavy purchasers once every week or two.  These days a lot of folks get Amazon deliveries every day.
Drones may have made sense back when they were delivering one package a day to a given neighborhood.  But now when you have a truck load of deliveries for every street, probably doesn't make as much sense.
Delivering prescriptions by drone, that sort of still makes sense.

However, it takes so long to get things approved by the federal governmet that, by the time they finally get these approved (15-20 years from now?), they will probably no longer make sense.

The bureaucracy in the USA is killing inovation.  We invent stuff here that we aren't allowed to use for years, or sometimes decades, after it's widely available in the rest of the world.

My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key

April 9, 2021 1:45 AM, "Bill Dube via EV" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In my opinion, the "delivery drones" have the wrong paradigm. The delivery drone really doesn't
> need to travel long distances or carry more than one package.
>
> The real issue is the final 50-100 feet of delivery. The UPS driver has to park the truck, get the
> package out of the back of the truck, and carry it to the front door, then walk back to the truck,
> start it and go to the next address. The "drone" should do only this "walking" portion of the
> mission instead of the driver. The truck just travels by the house, and the drone flies out of the
> top of the truck with the package, and delivers it to the front door, then returns to the still
> moving truck.
>
> The truck may not need to even stop, but only slow down, or not. The drone might actually be
> tethered for large/heavy packages and very short distances.
>
> The drone does what it does best; short hops. It returns to the truck quickly for the next package
> and a recharge.
>
> The driver can ascertain if there is any problem, and intervene quickly to correct it. The driver
> can opt to hand deliver a package that the drone may not be able to deliver effectively. Perhaps
> dense trees, power lines, winds, or other issues.
>
> Bill D.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> No other addresses in TO and CC fields
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Re: [External] Re: large drone ?

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
And everyone seems to forget the downwash of the blades. These drones will be unmanned helicopters capable of lifting hundreds of pounds of payload. The lift required will cause substantial downwash that can be damaging and dangerous. My co-worker and I, both with military experience, have mused over the idea of "flying cars" landing on a street and blowing trash and debris all over other vehicles and people. The walking/driving robot would be much less bothersome for home deliveries. The drones could be readily used in an airport or warehouse scenario. Rather than one or the other, we should be considering both in concert.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.


-----Original Message-----
From: EV <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
Sent: Friday, April 9, 2021 17:34
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Cc: Peri Hartman <[hidden email]>
Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] large drone ?

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender's actual email address and know the content is safe.

Now, Lee is really making sense.

The drone issue is highly controversial. I know the FCC is working on rules but that's only the start. There are issues with
- noise
- safety
- privacy
- effectiveness.

The first three are obvious. Lee touches on the fourth. There are problems with accessing covered porches, avoiding eaves, bushes, wires, and other aerial obstructions.

On the other hand, a robot device could navigate anywhere a human does.
It could also be loading the next stop's package(s) while the truck is traveling. Couple that with autonomous vehicles (in some future century
:) and the whole process becomes much more efficient than today.

Peri


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Re: [External] Re: large drone ?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I would suggest you learn how a bee “ flys”....KLM

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 10, 2021, at 12:02 AM, George Mullineaux via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> And everyone seems to forget the downwash of the blades. These drones will be unmanned helicopters capable of lifting hundreds of pounds of payload. The lift required will cause substantial downwash that can be damaging and dangerous. My co-worker and I, both with military experience, have mused over the idea of "flying cars" landing on a street and blowing trash and debris all over other vehicles and people. The walking/driving robot would be much less bothersome for home deliveries. The drones could be readily used in an airport or warehouse scenario. Rather than one or the other, we should be considering both in concert.
>
> George Mullineaux
> 3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
> Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EV <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
> Sent: Friday, April 9, 2021 17:34
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Peri Hartman <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] large drone ?
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender's actual email address and know the content is safe.
>
> Now, Lee is really making sense.
>
> The drone issue is highly controversial. I know the FCC is working on rules but that's only the start. There are issues with
> - noise
> - safety
> - privacy
> - effectiveness.
>
> The first three are obvious. Lee touches on the fourth. There are problems with accessing covered porches, avoiding eaves, bushes, wires, and other aerial obstructions.
>
> On the other hand, a robot device could navigate anywhere a human does.
> It could also be loading the next stop's package(s) while the truck is traveling. Couple that with autonomous vehicles (in some future century
> :) and the whole process becomes much more efficient than today.
>
> Peri
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Address messages to [hidden email]
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Re: [External] Re: large drone ?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
But now, we are talking about wings, not rotors. I have seen some images of prototypes that utilize wing-type mechanisms, but most of the drones I have seen still utilize rotors. Can we change the way a rotor creates lift to reduce the downwash? No sarcasm, this is an honest question.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.


-----Original Message-----
From: EV <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Ken McGraw via EV
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2021 00:52
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Cc: Ken McGraw <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: large drone ?

I would suggest you learn how a bee “ flys”....KLM

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 10, 2021, at 12:02 AM, George Mullineaux via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> And everyone seems to forget the downwash of the blades. These drones will be unmanned helicopters capable of lifting hundreds of pounds of payload. The lift required will cause substantial downwash that can be damaging and dangerous. My co-worker and I, both with military experience, have mused over the idea of "flying cars" landing on a street and blowing trash and debris all over other vehicles and people. The walking/driving robot would be much less bothersome for home deliveries. The drones could be readily used in an airport or warehouse scenario. Rather than one or the other, we should be considering both in concert.
>
> George Mullineaux
> 3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
> Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EV <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
> Sent: Friday, April 9, 2021 17:34
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Peri Hartman <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [External] Re: [EVDL] large drone ?
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender's actual email address and know the content is safe.
>
> Now, Lee is really making sense.
>
> The drone issue is highly controversial. I know the FCC is working on
> rules but that's only the start. There are issues with
> - noise
> - safety
> - privacy
> - effectiveness.
>
> The first three are obvious. Lee touches on the fourth. There are problems with accessing covered porches, avoiding eaves, bushes, wires, and other aerial obstructions.
>
> On the other hand, a robot device could navigate anywhere a human does.
> It could also be loading the next stop's package(s) while the truck is
> traveling. Couple that with autonomous vehicles (in some future
> century
> :) and the whole process becomes much more efficient than today.
>
> Peri
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [External] Re: large drone ?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
This thread is mostly off topic.  However, there are a couple of critical
points that everyone posting so far seems to be missing.

I want Amazon, UPS, Fedex, and ESPECIALLY USPS to convert their delivery
fleets to EVs.  

But I want HUMANS driving them.  I want HUMANS delivering my packages to my
door.  And I want those humans to be treated decently and humanely in their
jobs.  For goodness sake let's at least give them a reasonable number of
bathroom breaks.  

Humans can make judgements.  Machines can only do what they're programmed to
do.  

Machines also can't buy stuff to keep a consumer economy moving forward.  
The more people you put out of work by turning their jobs over to machines,
the fewer there are to spend money.  When does it stop?  When all the Amazon
vans are automated?  When UPS and Fedex are too?  When all the OTR trucks
are automated?  When your job is automated?

As the old song says, the fact that you CAN doesn't mean that you SHOULD.

But by all means, put those human drivers in ELECTRIC delivery vehicles.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
     My father taught me that a job worth doing is worth doing right.
     It's advice that has served me well. It's mind-boggling the
     number of jobs not worth doing and the incalculable hours I've
     saved by not doing them.

                                             -- Jimmy Johnson
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

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Re: [External] Re: large drone ?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Thanks for the head-slap, David. You are absolutely correct.

George Mullineaux
3rd Shift Wrench Monkey
Pinnacle Corrugated, Landis, N.C.


-----Original Message-----
From: EV <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of EVDL Administrator via EV
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2021 02:47
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Cc: EVDL Administrator <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: large drone ?

This thread is mostly off topic.  However, there are a couple of critical points that everyone posting so far seems to be missing.

I want Amazon, UPS, Fedex, and ESPECIALLY USPS to convert their delivery fleets to EVs.  

But I want HUMANS driving them.  I want HUMANS delivering my packages to my door.  And I want those humans to be treated decently and humanely in their jobs.  For goodness sake let's at least give them a reasonable number of bathroom breaks.  

Humans can make judgements.  Machines can only do what they're programmed to do.  

Machines also can't buy stuff to keep a consumer economy moving forward.  
The more people you put out of work by turning their jobs over to machines, the fewer there are to spend money.  When does it stop?  When all the Amazon vans are automated?  When UPS and Fedex are too?  When all the OTR trucks are automated?  When your job is automated?

As the old song says, the fact that you CAN doesn't mean that you SHOULD.

But by all means, put those human drivers in ELECTRIC delivery vehicles.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my offlist address here : https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fevdl.org%2Fhelp%2Findex.html%23supt&amp;data=04%7C01%7Cgeorgemullineaux%40pinnaclecorrugated.com%7C5b7e62bb68c049e58e2b08d8fbf53e39%7C976178cc71b24588b870337d092cdfe3%7C0%7C0%7C637536378031540955%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=9yeWecsSsz5NP80sDipGLVulKhvL9LibllvUhnTr%2BJ8%3D&amp;reserved=0

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
     My father taught me that a job worth doing is worth doing right.
     It's advice that has served me well. It's mind-boggling the
     number of jobs not worth doing and the incalculable hours I've
     saved by not doing them.

                                             -- Jimmy Johnson = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

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Re: [External] Re: large drone ?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
My hypothetical proposal was for EV drones (both tethered and perhaps
non-tethered) delivering packages from a truck (which could be an EV)
driven by a person. This would be safer as the driver could remain in
the truck, and not worry about slippery terrain, strained muscles,
viscous dogs, or irate package recipients.

The driver would directly supervise the delivery of each package, and
decide if the specific delivery was within the capability of the drone.
The drone would only take the package from the truck to the doorstep,
instead of the driver doing so.

FAR more efficient and safe than long distance drone delivery from a
central fixed location. (Likely fewer regulatory headaches as well.) No
jobs eliminated. Just the worst part of the job being performed by a
machine. The driver just makes sure it all goes smoothly and safely from
the comfort of the cab of the truck (unless the driver decides it is
safer/better to hand deliver the package.)

Bill D.


On 4/10/2021 6:47 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

> This thread is mostly off topic.  However, there are a couple of critical
> points that everyone posting so far seems to be missing.
>
> I want Amazon, UPS, Fedex, and ESPECIALLY USPS to convert their delivery
> fleets to EVs.
>
> But I want HUMANS driving them.  I want HUMANS delivering my packages to my
> door.  And I want those humans to be treated decently and humanely in their
> jobs.  For goodness sake let's at least give them a reasonable number of
> bathroom breaks.
>
> Humans can make judgements.  Machines can only do what they're programmed to
> do.
>
> Machines also can't buy stuff to keep a consumer economy moving forward.
> The more people you put out of work by turning their jobs over to machines,
> the fewer there are to spend money.  When does it stop?  When all the Amazon
> vans are automated?  When UPS and Fedex are too?  When all the OTR trucks
> are automated?  When your job is automated?
>
> As the old song says, the fact that you CAN doesn't mean that you SHOULD.
>
> But by all means, put those human drivers in ELECTRIC delivery vehicles.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>       My father taught me that a job worth doing is worth doing right.
>       It's advice that has served me well. It's mind-boggling the
>       number of jobs not worth doing and the incalculable hours I've
>       saved by not doing them.
>
>                                               -- Jimmy Johnson
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
> _______________________________________________
> Address messages to [hidden email]
> No other addresses in TO and CC fields
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/
> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>

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Re: [External] Re: large drone ?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Not only off topic but away from the discussion of the article I read. The
drone is to be used for deliveries between hubs avoiding the need for a
central hub. Had nothing to do with home delivery. Maybe I read the wrong
article?
Grasser

-----Original Message-----
From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill Dube via EV
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2021 5:29 AM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Bill Dube
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: large drone ?

My hypothetical proposal was for EV drones (both tethered and perhaps
non-tethered) delivering packages from a truck (which could be an EV)
driven by a person. This would be safer as the driver could remain in
the truck, and not worry about slippery terrain, strained muscles,
viscous dogs, or irate package recipients.

The driver would directly supervise the delivery of each package, and
decide if the specific delivery was within the capability of the drone.
The drone would only take the package from the truck to the doorstep,
instead of the driver doing so.

FAR more efficient and safe than long distance drone delivery from a
central fixed location. (Likely fewer regulatory headaches as well.) No
jobs eliminated. Just the worst part of the job being performed by a
machine. The driver just makes sure it all goes smoothly and safely from
the comfort of the cab of the truck (unless the driver decides it is
safer/better to hand deliver the package.)

Bill D.


On 4/10/2021 6:47 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
> This thread is mostly off topic.  However, there are a couple of critical
> points that everyone posting so far seems to be missing.
>
> I want Amazon, UPS, Fedex, and ESPECIALLY USPS to convert their delivery
> fleets to EVs.
>
> But I want HUMANS driving them.  I want HUMANS delivering my packages to
my
> door.  And I want those humans to be treated decently and humanely in
their
> jobs.  For goodness sake let's at least give them a reasonable number of
> bathroom breaks.
>
> Humans can make judgements.  Machines can only do what they're programmed
to
> do.
>
> Machines also can't buy stuff to keep a consumer economy moving forward.
> The more people you put out of work by turning their jobs over to
machines,
> the fewer there are to spend money.  When does it stop?  When all the
Amazon

> vans are automated?  When UPS and Fedex are too?  When all the OTR trucks
> are automated?  When your job is automated?
>
> As the old song says, the fact that you CAN doesn't mean that you SHOULD.
>
> But by all means, put those human drivers in ELECTRIC delivery vehicles.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>       My father taught me that a job worth doing is worth doing right.
>       It's advice that has served me well. It's mind-boggling the
>       number of jobs not worth doing and the incalculable hours I've
>       saved by not doing them.
>
>                                               -- Jimmy Johnson
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
> _______________________________________________
> Address messages to [hidden email]
> No other addresses in TO and CC fields
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/
> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>

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Re: [External] Re: large drone ?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Well, now really off topic :)

I don't have a preference on whether a human or not delivers packages. I
do respect that some people like that kind of job, and so I support
their rights to a quality work environment.

But, long term, we will continue to mechanize (robotize) more and more
kinds of jobs. You can argue that we should protect jobs but there are
better ways to handle this kind of change. Going back to the early
1800s, automatic looms were the first large scale automation of the
industrial revolution. Many, many people were put out of jobs and
governments did little or nothing to help them. However, no one wanted
to go back to hand woven fabric because the price of fabric went down
drastically and even the poor were able to afford more textile products.

In the relatively near future, we will go through another change where
all driving jobs will be gone, probably most stocking and retailing jobs
will be minimized, and many other kinds of jobs. For the overall
economy, that's a good thing. For those who lose their jobs, it's
terrible. Without intervention, we'll devolve into a society of royalty
(e.g. tech workers) and serfs (e.g. unemployed) with a huge division in
quality of life. We can politically balance that out so that everyone
has some work to do (not full time) and ample money to live. If we do,
most everyone will have more free time and have a better lifestyle than
today. And that free time can be used in innovative ways, such as we do
today on EVDL to help push a new technology (see I worked it back on
topic :)

Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

------ Original Message ------
From: "EVDL Administrator via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "EVDL Administrator" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 09-Apr-21 11:47:07 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: large drone ?

>This thread is mostly off topic.  However, there are a couple of critical
>points that everyone posting so far seems to be missing.
>
>I want Amazon, UPS, Fedex, and ESPECIALLY USPS to convert their delivery
>fleets to EVs.
>
>But I want HUMANS driving them.  I want HUMANS delivering my packages to my
>door.  And I want those humans to be treated decently and humanely in their
>jobs.  For goodness sake let's at least give them a reasonable number of
>bathroom breaks.
>
>Humans can make judgements.  Machines can only do what they're programmed to
>do.
>
>Machines also can't buy stuff to keep a consumer economy moving forward.
>The more people you put out of work by turning their jobs over to machines,
>the fewer there are to spend money.  When does it stop?  When all the Amazon
>vans are automated?  When UPS and Fedex are too?  When all the OTR trucks
>are automated?  When your job is automated?
>
>As the old song says, the fact that you CAN doesn't mean that you SHOULD.
>
>But by all means, put those human drivers in ELECTRIC delivery vehicles.
>
>David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>

_______________________________________________
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No other addresses in TO and CC fields
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Re: [External] Re: large drone ?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Let me further put this back on topic.

The automation of the ports is all about electrification with remote controlled EVs and other equipment. Efficiency and throughout is increased.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Apr 10, 2021, at 7:05 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Well, now really off topic :)
>
> I don't have a preference on whether a human or not delivers packages. I do respect that some people like that kind of job, and so I support their rights to a quality work environment.
>
> But, long term, we will continue to mechanize (robotize) more and more kinds of jobs. You can argue that we should protect jobs but there are better ways to handle this kind of change. Going back to the early 1800s, automatic looms were the first large scale automation of the industrial revolution. Many, many people were put out of jobs and governments did little or nothing to help them. However, no one wanted to go back to hand woven fabric because the price of fabric went down drastically and even the poor were able to afford more textile products.
>
> In the relatively near future, we will go through another change where all driving jobs will be gone, probably most stocking and retailing jobs will be minimized, and many other kinds of jobs. For the overall economy, that's a good thing. For those who lose their jobs, it's terrible. Without intervention, we'll devolve into a society of royalty (e.g. tech workers) and serfs (e.g. unemployed) with a huge division in quality of life. We can politically balance that out so that everyone has some work to do (not full time) and ample money to live. If we do, most everyone will have more free time and have a better lifestyle than today. And that free time can be used in innovative ways, such as we do today on EVDL to help push a new technology (see I worked it back on topic :)
>
> Peri
>
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "EVDL Administrator via EV" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "EVDL Administrator" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: 09-Apr-21 11:47:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: large drone ?
>
>> This thread is mostly off topic.  However, there are a couple of critical
>> points that everyone posting so far seems to be missing.
>>
>> I want Amazon, UPS, Fedex, and ESPECIALLY USPS to convert their delivery
>> fleets to EVs.
>>
>> But I want HUMANS driving them.  I want HUMANS delivering my packages to my
>> door.  And I want those humans to be treated decently and humanely in their
>> jobs.  For goodness sake let's at least give them a reasonable number of
>> bathroom breaks.
>>
>> Humans can make judgements.  Machines can only do what they're programmed to
>> do.
>>
>> Machines also can't buy stuff to keep a consumer economy moving forward.
>> The more people you put out of work by turning their jobs over to machines,
>> the fewer there are to spend money.  When does it stop?  When all the Amazon
>> vans are automated?  When UPS and Fedex are too?  When all the OTR trucks
>> are automated?  When your job is automated?
>>
>> As the old song says, the fact that you CAN doesn't mean that you SHOULD.
>>
>> But by all means, put those human drivers in ELECTRIC delivery vehicles.
>>
>> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Address messages to [hidden email]
> No other addresses in TO and CC fields
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/
> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>

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