"HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

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"HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

hi-tech
"HOLY" CRAP not too fast

Based on the subject, today it is appropiate for us to consider.

I like slow driving, I dont understant relativity theory so will not try to explain why.

ok now,  
why do i need to do a conversion for more than 55 mph?

what are the pro and cons of sticking to that parameter?

for one thing speed capability is not the road to salvation/safety, if afraid buy an artillery tank.

no yoking replies wanted.

yeah i now i am starting too many topics, and more to come, but i need to quickly take advange of the wise guys here, all in the same place for free.
 
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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

David Nelson-5
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 4:34 PM, hi-tech <[hidden email]> wrote:
> no yoking replies wanted.
>
> yeah i now i am starting too many topics, and more to come, but i need to
> quickly take advange of the wise guys here, all in the same place for free.

Then maybe start by searching the evdl archives. You will find many of
your questions have already been asked and answered.

--
David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328

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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

Doug Weathers
In reply to this post by hi-tech

On Apr 22, 2011, at 5:34 PM, hi-tech wrote:

> why do i need to do a conversion for more than 55 mph?

You don't.  You can do whatever conversion you want.  Other people will want to do different conversions.  

It's a tradeoff between low and high speeds, like every other engineering decision.

Low speeds:
 - are easier and cheaper
 - use less power and have more range
 - are familiar to non-US drivers

High speeds:
 - are more sporty and fun
 - win more races at the drag strip
 - are familiar to US drivers

To make these kinds of decisions, you should start with a "mission statement" for your EV.  What do you want it to do?  Why are you doing it?  Do you want your EV to be street-legal?  (You should probably stick to high-level concepts and avoid statements like "I'll use a DC motor" or "  Once you know the mission, you have a way to help you make the engineering decisions.  When faced with a decision, consider the alternatives, compare each one to the EV mission, and pick the one that best supports the mission.

If you end up with a conflict and cannot pick a winner, you should reexamine your EV's mission.

(Note: in the past there have been many discussions about fast vs. slow EVs on this list.  You might want to search the archives.  Directions are given on the page listed at the bottom of every EV List post.)

--
Doug Weathers
http://www.gdunge.com
"There is no easy way from the Earth to the stars." - Seneca
"We choose to go to the Moon and do the other things - not because  
they are easy, but because they are hard." - John F. Kennedy


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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

Roland Wiench
In reply to this post by hi-tech
If you want to do 55 mph in the final gear in your transmission, then the
differential gear should be a 4.829:1 gear ratio or something close to that
if you are using a 9 inch motor that has produces the maximum torque at 3300
rpm which produces maximum efficiently of the motor call the sweet spot of
the motor.

You can maintain the sweet spot rpm of a motor any different speeds by
shifting into different gears.  I can maintain the the sweet spot of my
motor from 10 mph to 50 mph.

Contact your motor manufacture tech to find out what the sweet spot rpm of
your motor will be.

To calculate the overall gear ratio using different size motors that has
different rpm curves at the maximum torque:


                       Sweet Spot Rpm x Wheel Circumference
 Overall Gear Ratio =  ------------------------------------
                               55 mph x  1056


Roland







----- Original Message -----
From: "hi-tech" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 5:34 PM
Subject: [EVDL] "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast


> "HOLY" CRAP not too fast
>
> Based on the subject, today it is appropiate for us to consider.
>
> I like slow driving, I dont understant relativity theory so will not try
> to
> explain why.
>
> ok now,
> why do i need to do a conversion for more than 55 mph?
>
> what are the pro and cons of sticking to that parameter?
>
> for one thing speed capability is not the road to salvation/safety, if
> afraid buy an artillery tank.
>
> no yoking replies wanted.
>
> yeah i now i am starting too many topics, and more to come, but i need to
> quickly take advange of the wise guys here, all in the same place for
> free.
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/HOLY-CRAP-not-too-fast-tp3469146p3469146.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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Holy car design with no transmission. :-)

Mark Grasser
In reply to this post by Doug Weathers
You may not want high speed or fast acceleration but if you take the time to
engineer your conversion to be reliable, run cool with good battery life you
might find it to be of fast acceleration and high speed. I know that when
mine is finally done it will be direct drive to the differential but in an
effort to make sure the motor runs cool I will end up with in excess of 200
hp which means it WILL be fast and accelerate VERY quickly. I call it a"Side
Affect"....... Ew, might be a name for the car!!!!

Sincerely,
Mark Grasser
 


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Doug Weathers
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 8:15 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast


On Apr 22, 2011, at 5:34 PM, hi-tech wrote:

> why do i need to do a conversion for more than 55 mph?

You don't.  You can do whatever conversion you want.  Other people will want
to do different conversions.  

It's a tradeoff between low and high speeds, like every other engineering
decision.

Low speeds:
 - are easier and cheaper
 - use less power and have more range
 - are familiar to non-US drivers

High speeds:
 - are more sporty and fun
 - win more races at the drag strip
 - are familiar to US drivers

To make these kinds of decisions, you should start with a "mission
statement" for your EV.  What do you want it to do?  Why are you doing it?
Do you want your EV to be street-legal?  (You should probably stick to
high-level concepts and avoid statements like "I'll use a DC motor" or "
Once you know the mission, you have a way to help you make the engineering
decisions.  When faced with a decision, consider the alternatives, compare
each one to the EV mission, and pick the one that best supports the mission.

If you end up with a conflict and cannot pick a winner, you should reexamine
your EV's mission.

(Note: in the past there have been many discussions about fast vs. slow EVs
on this list.  You might want to search the archives.  Directions are given
on the page listed at the bottom of every EV List post.)

--
Doug Weathers
http://www.gdunge.com
"There is no easy way from the Earth to the stars." - Seneca
"We choose to go to the Moon and do the other things - not because  
they are easy, but because they are hard." - John F. Kennedy


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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by hi-tech
hi-tech wrote:
> why do i need to do a conversion for more than 55 mph?

What you "need" will depend on how and where you drive, and what you
demand from a vehicle.

My first couple EVs couldn't go over 55 mph. They were simple
inexpensive conversions, done by a beginner. I got a lot of details
wrong, cut corners, used less than optimal parts, etc.

But they worked! I commuted to work every day, ran errands, and in
general used them just like normal cars. I happened to live less than 5
miles from work, and didn't need to take high-speed freeways, so the
lower speeds were fine.
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

hi-tech
Lee hart,

Once more, I hear you

"But they worked! I commuted to work every day, ran errands, and in
general used them just like normal cars. I happened to live less than 5
miles from work, and didn't need to take high-speed freeways, so the
lower speeds were fine."

keeping in mind the your statement above, Is this the best place to buy complete kits?

http://www.e-volks.com/
 

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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

Lee Hart
Lee Hart wrote [on simple low speed EVs]
>> "But they worked! I commuted to work every day, ran errands, and in
>> general used them just like normal cars. I happened to live less than 5
>> miles from work, and didn't need to take high-speed freeways, so the
>> lower speeds were fine."

hi-tech wrote:
> Keeping in mind the your statement above, is this the best place to buy
> complete kits? http://www.e-volks.com/

Here again, "best" is in the eye of the beholder.

Suppose you've never driven a car before, and your grandfather gives you
his old worn-out clunker. It's ugly and slow and hard to drive, and
keeps breaking down. Nevertheless, you love it! You don't know any
better, and it's your first car!

But as time passes, you gain experience. You get tired of the constant
repairs, of people poking fun of it, and of having to worry about how
and where you can drive it. You want something better. So, your next car
will be a step up the ladder. More expensive; but bigger, faster, newer,
more stylish, more reliable, more generally useful and more "normal".

The Wilderness EV kits are very simple and inexpensive. They are a great
way to try an EV without risking a lot of money. About the only way you
can beat their price is if you are a savvy shopper and have the help of
an experienced EVer. However, their approach is in many respects too
simple, and too cheap. It won't take long to recognize its shortcomings
and weaknesses, and want something better.
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

hi-tech
Lee,

You said, "VHowever, their approach is in many respects too
simple, and too cheap. It won't take long to recognize its shortcomings
and weaknesses, and want something better."

Sorry to bother lyou but, off the top of your head... can you mentions some of those "shortcoming"?

Then who will be the next better supplier?

Btw, what do you think of China suppliers? Just about anything is being manufactured in China. I know, transactions directly with China are more complex and risky, , until your learn the tricks.

Also, *some* manufactures in China use lower quality material, but if the buyer is not into racing or xtreme use... the much lower price may justify trying. 'Been There Done That' with other products... and many kind of local suppliers just buy from China and sell at much higher price.  
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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

Lee Hart
On 4/24/2011 8:17 AM, hi-tech wrote:
> Lee,
>
> You said, "However, their approach is in many respects too simple,
> and too cheap. It won't take long to recognize its shortcomings and
> weaknesses, and want something better."
>
> Sorry to bother you, but off the top of your head... can you mentions
> some of those "shortcoming"?

Keep in mind that I've been building and driving EVs for over 30 years.
I've made a lot of mistakes myself, and seen lots more mistakes made by
others. That has prejudiced me toward spending more up front for better
parts, and building things to last so I'm not constantly having to fix
things.

At risk of alienating people, here are my opinions on the Wilderness EV
kits. Keep in mind that I don't have their kits; I am judging based on
what I've heard, and what I see in their parts lists, and knowing how
these parts have performed in other EVs.

Their approach is to supply the cheapest possible parts, and as few
parts as possible. Leave out anything not absolutely essential.

  - The motors supplied on the cheaper #1 and #2 kits are too
    small for a VW-size car. You either get a very slow vehicle,
    or will burn up the motor if you attempt to drive too fast or
    too far.

  - Same for controllers. The AXE controllers are good, but not
    strong enough for full-size vehicles. They are intended for
    golf carts and NEVs (street-legal golf carts). When you run a
    controller at or near its maximum ratings, its life becomes
    very short. You need to move up to at least the Curtis 1221
    or 1231 series controller for a VW Beetle size car.

  - The battery terminals they picture are cheap junk. They are
    called "emergency terminals" for a reason -- they are only
    intended for very brief light-duty use until you can replace
    them with something better.

  - The instrumentation supplied is negligible -- just a small
    voltmeter and ammeter. Not even a battery "fuel" gauge. It's
    an invitation for "battricide" (murdering your batteries).
    It's like an ICE car with no gauges or even idiot lights for
    oil, temperature, alternator, etc. A novice will kill his ICE
    before he's even aware anything is wrong.

  - Most kits don't supply the motor adapter plate or coupler.
    These are expensive, custom machined parts unique to each
    vehicle, and not easy for the kit builder to make himself.

  - They don't supply battery boxes. They are a lot of work to
    design and install, with many opportunities to do it wrong.

- There's a huge list of things they aren't supplying; battery
   boxes, DC/DC converter, heater, charger, emergency shut-off
   devices, etc.

> Then who will be the next better supplier?

It depends on your goals. In general, you want to pick good parts, and
then shop around for the best price and delivery on them. You may wind
up getting them from different suppliers.

If you're a beginner and need a kit, look for a company that has a kit
for the specific car you'll be converting. Things like the adapter
plate, motor coupler, and battery boxes are very vehicle-specific. These
are the areas where a novice will have all his problems.

> Btw, what do you think of China suppliers?

They can build good stuff; but someone has to be watching, testing and
guaranteeing their work. Without this, you will get junk!

Sadly, most US suppliers buy from China to get the lowest possible
price. They then do *no* testing themselves, and provide little or no
warranty or support for the customer. This only encourages the Chinese
to supply the worst possible junk, and the end customer will get burned.

When a buyer doesn't really understand what he's getting, there is an
incentive for the supplier to *really* cheap out on the product. For
example, you can buy "DC/DC converters" that are nothing but AC power
supplies being re-labelled.

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

David Dymaxion
Disclaimer: I don't stand to profit from the success or failure of Wilderness
EV http://e-volks.com .

One minor correction, their kits do list the adapter and coupler as part of the
kits (although I think it is for a limited number of vehicles).

http://e-volks.com/electric_car_conversions.html




________________________________
From: Lee Hart <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sun, April 24, 2011 11:27:58 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

...
  - Most kits don't supply the motor adapter plate or coupler.
    These are expensive, custom machined parts unique to each
    vehicle, and not easy for the kit builder to make himself.
...
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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

Lee Hart
On 4/24/2011 6:36 PM, David Dymaxion wrote:
> One minor correction, their kits do list the adapter and coupler as part of the
> kits (although I think it is for a limited number of vehicles).
> http://e-volks.com/electric_car_conversions.html

I think you are correct that they have adapters and couplers for the old
VW beetles and a few other vehicles. I was thinking more about newer
vehicles, for which I think you'd have to fabricate your own.
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

Mike Nickerson
In reply to this post by hi-tech
On my commute, I can either travel by State Highway, or Freeway.  The speed
limit on the highway is 55 MPH and the speed limit on the freeway is 65 MPH.
(My commute is about 23 miles, one way).

On either road, the average speed is likely 5 MPH over the posted speed
limit.  In order to blend into traffic, I need to be able to hold 60 MPH or
70 MPH.  I have a conversion that could do 70 MPH, but barely, and it would
be pushing it to its design limits.  I generally stick to the highway for my
commute.  I don't like pushing equipment to the limit.

As with all complicated machinery, there are design tradeoffs with electric
vehicles.  Due to the technology and expense, they can't solve all problems
as ICEs do by having 2-3X the power they need to do the job.  Because of
that, the first question always has to be:  "What do I need this vehicle to
do?"

That should always be your first question for any vehicle, but doubly
important for an electric vehicle.  You could commute in the White Zombie,
but depending upon needed range and other variables, it might or might not
work very well.  Similarly, you could race my del Sol, but you would be
disappointed.  I have an electric car for commuting, but I also have a 3/4
ton Suburban for hauling 8 people and/or the 20 foot, 3-horse slant-load
trailer.  I can substitute the Suburban for commuting, at significant cost
(35 cents per mile for fuel only).  I can't substitute the del Sol for the
Suburban's duties, for obvious reasons.

Why do you want the electric car?  What do you want to do with it?  When you
understand that answer, this group and browsing through the EVAlbum can help
you understand what solutions might exist, and what others have done to meet
similar needs.  What do you want to do needs to include aspects of:  Range,
speed, acceleration, carrying capacity, looks and specific features you want
or need.

I need my vehicle to commute 23 miles, each way, at 60 MPH.  I only need to
drive myself and sometimes one other person.  I also use it for runs to the
store (5 miles each way).  I can charge at work.  I've also always wanted a
convertible.  The Honda del Sol (www.evalbum.com/2778) seemed like the
perfect fit.  If I couldn't charge at work, its current range probably
wouldn't have worked.  The same car with lead instead of lithium also
wouldn't be a good fit.  It really matters what you want to do with the
vehicle when you're done.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of hi-tech
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 5:34 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [EVDL] "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

"HOLY" CRAP not too fast

Based on the subject, today it is appropiate for us to consider.

I like slow driving, I dont understant relativity theory so will not try to
explain why.

ok now,
why do i need to do a conversion for more than 55 mph?

what are the pro and cons of sticking to that parameter?

for one thing speed capability is not the road to salvation/safety, if
afraid buy an artillery tank.

no yoking replies wanted.

yeah i now i am starting too many topics, and more to come, but i need to
quickly take advange of the wise guys here, all in the same place for free.
 

--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/HOLY-CRAP-not-t
oo-fast-tp3469146p3469146.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

hi-tech
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
Lee and Mike,

"- The battery terminals they picture are cheap junk.", noticed in pic, if ever ordered any kit, would try to negotiate for another kind, but really I can 'handle'/manage/modify cheap parts so they behave, or at least live with it.

"Most kits don't supply the motor adapter plate or coupler."  Mike answered that already.

"- There's a huge list of things they aren't supplying" ; "charger",

it seem to me i did see chargers included in kits. I can survive without the rest of the items no supplied.

btw for another project I really need "DC/DC converter, 12-48v 1KW, again low cost, it will be for kids club. Can anyone advice about it?

The only one i have seen [hard to find any]
12V (9~18VDC) 48V 41.67A (2000W) CTZ2000-12S05 at CURRENT-LOGIC.COM, don't know pricing yet, too busy.

generally speaking i asked "why do i need to do a conversion for more than 55 mph? "

But really it was a rethorical question, I know i dont need it, as implied in the subject and all along.

I do have several projects to acomplish but, 40 miles range and no more than 55mph small pickup truck, -nice looking- is ok for now.

But will consider any price kit [ac included] for small pickup truck,  

and reasonable priced donors too.

any help is really appreciated, there is always somebody with the righ answer/experience. Lee, you know what I mean...
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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

Lee Hart
On 4/27/2011 9:07 PM, hi-tech wrote:
> cheap battery terminals... noticed in pic, if ever ordered any kit,
> would try to negotiate for another kind, but really I can
> 'handle'/manage/modify cheap parts so they behave, or at least live
> with it.

It's good to be aware of the situation.

The terminals you want are heavy duty tin plated copper crimp terminals;
not cast lead, not brass, not bent sheet metal.

> "Most kits don't supply the motor adapter plate or coupler."
 > "- There's a huge list of things they aren't supplying" ; "charger",

Yes. I was thinking of their low end #1 and #2 kits. The higher end kits
have the extra parts needed, but then their prices are about the same as
everyone else's.

> it seem to me i did see chargers included in kits. I can survive
> without the rest of the items no supplied.

The quickcharger shown is a very cheap charger.

> btw for another project I really need "DC/DC converter, 12-48v 1KW,
> again low cost, it will be for kids club. Can anyone advice about
> it?

Are you sure you need a kilowatt at 12v? That's 80 amps!

Astec and Meanwell make DC/DC converters in this voltage and power
range. Be aware that they are built for indoor use, and not in vehicles.

Another option is to buy surplus Vicor modules. They are very small,
high quality, high efficiency potted DC/DC converters (about 2.4" x 4.6"
x 0.5" thick). They cost about $160 new, but are often available surplus
at low prices ($10 to $50 each on eBay etc.). For 48v in and 12v out,
look for VI-231-xx or VI-2N1-xx modules. Each one delivers up to 12
amps, and you can parallel them for more.

For example, eBay #370293018038 is a VI-231-CW (48vin, 12v@150w out).
The -3- modules have a 42-60v input range.

Or, eBay #140449908535 is a VI-2N1-CY (48vin, 12v@50w out). The -N-
modules have a wider input range (36-76vdc). I have a bunch of VI-BN1-EV
booster modules for $20 each (used as slaves with a VI-2N1 module). Each
booster adds another 75w. For 1 KW, you'd need the master and 6 boosters.

The Vicor website www.vicr.com has vast amounts of information on using
these modules.

> I asked, "Why do I need to do a conversion for more
> than 55 mph?" But really it was a rhetorical question, I know I don't need it, as
> implied in the subject and all along.
>
> I do have several projects to accomplish but, 40 miles range and no
> more than 55mph small pickup truck, -nice looking- is ok for now.

My first EV (built back in the 1970's) was a 1974 Datsun mini-pickup,
with twelve golf cart batteries in the bed, an aircraft generator as its
motor, and a home-made charger and contactor controller. It was good for
about 40 miles range and 55 mph top speed. It was pretty crude, but only
cost me about $1000. Is that the sort of thing you're looking for?

You may have to narrow down your criteria to get more reasonable
answers. At present, it's pretty vague.
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

hi-tech
lee,

"Are you sure you need a kilowatt at 12v? That's 80 amps!"
Yes

"For 48v in and 12v out,
look for VI-231-xx or VI-2N1-xx modules."

The converter above and and another 2 units you suggested, are not what i need... reason is you are at it in *reverse*, no pun intented.

But I think your suggestion, logical and typical for this forum, is for powering 12v devices from higher v battery bank.

Really, I will be powering 48v devices from a 12v source. In my previous post I informed about the only dc-dc converter [and website] I could find. So I may need more advice about suppliers.

"My first EV (built back in the 1970's) was a 1974 Datsun mini-pickup,"

eh?!, and still no honorable 'discharge' coming..., got batteries with staying power.

 "It was pretty crude, but only
cost me about $1000. Is that the sort of thing you're looking for?"

No. No home made chargers and aircraft 'motor'.  Just a kit for an small truck, ford ranger etc, with all basic required parts, no shiny options and instruments, for now.

"You may have to narrow down your criteria to get more reasonable answers. At present, it's pretty vague."

what about now with the above details?
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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

Mike Nickerson
I think a few more details would be illuminating:

  -  How far do you want to drive it on one charge?

  -  How fast do you want to go?

  -  How fast do you want to get to that speed (acceleration)?

  -  What will be the load in the truck besides a person or two and the
batteries?

  -  Mostly flat terrain or significant hills?  (Especially, any hills near
the end of the drive home?)

The range question and the load question will help determine whether
lead-acid batteries will be sufficient.

All those questions will help determine the size of the motor and the size
of the controller that would be necessary.

And finally, just because I have to know, what would the truck be doing that
needs 80A at 12V, if you don't mind my asking?

Final comment:  If I'm reading everything correctly, it sounds like you're
talking about converting your high-voltage traction pack to 12V at 80A and
then converting the 12V back to 48V.  If that's so, why not step the
high-voltage traction pack directly to 48V?  Every conversion costs
efficiency.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of hi-tech
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:41 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

lee,

"Are you sure you need a kilowatt at 12v? That's 80 amps!"
Yes

"For 48v in and 12v out,
look for VI-231-xx or VI-2N1-xx modules."

The converter above and and another 2 units you suggested, are not what i
need... reason is you are at it in *reverse*, no pun intented.

But I think your suggestion, logical and typical for this forum, is for
powering 12v devices from higher v battery bank.

Really, I will be powering 48v devices from a 12v source. In my previous
post I informed about the only dc-dc converter [and website] I could find.
So I may need more advice about suppliers.

"My first EV (built back in the 1970's) was a 1974 Datsun mini-pickup,"

eh?!, and still no honorable 'discharge' coming..., got batteries with
staying power.

 "It was pretty crude, but only
cost me about $1000. Is that the sort of thing you're looking for?"

No. No home made chargers and aircraft 'motor'.  Just a kit for an small
truck, ford ranger etc, with all basic required parts, no shiny options and
instruments, for now.

"You may have to narrow down your criteria to get more reasonable answers.
At present, it's pretty vague."

what about now with the above details?

--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/HOLY-CRAP-not-t
oo-fast-tp3469146p3482317.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by hi-tech
>> "Are you sure you need a kilowatt at 12v? That's 80 amps!"

hi-tech wrote:
> Yes... Really I will be powering 48v devices from a 12v source. In my
> previous post I informed about the only dc-dc converter [and website]
> I could find. So I may need more advice about suppliers.

OK; if you have 12v and want to convert it to 48v, the same solution I
mentioned using Vicor modules works, but you need 12v input, 48v output
modules. That would be a VI-204-xx for example.

These may be hard to find, as most people don't boost their voltages.
What are you doing where you have a 12v input and want 48v output?

>> My first EV (built back in the 1970's) was a 1974 Datsun
>> mini-pickup, It was pretty crude, but only cost me about $1000. Is
>> that the sort of thing you're looking for?"

> No. No home made chargers and aircraft 'motor'.  Just a kit for an
> small truck, ford ranger etc, with all basic required parts, no shiny
> options and instruments, for now.

That was my "cheap simple" solution in 1978. Today's cheap simple
solution would be similar. Pick a small vehicle with a high load
carrying ability. Use golf cart batteries (still the cheapest way to
go). Find a used 100-150 lbs forklift motor. A new economy controller
will cost $1000 +/-$500 (Curtis etc.); maybe half that for used.

Just be aware that if you go too cheap and simple, you will have lots of
"teething pains". Things will break because they are too shoddy to hold
up, or get wrecked because the owner doesn't know any better.

This list is a good resource for avoiding these pitfalls, but some
people prefer to "run with scissors" and find out for themselves.

Today's Ford Ranger is not a small light vehicle. It probably weighs
twice what my old Datsun did, which means all the parts are scaled up
2:1 -- You need twice the batteries, twice the motor, twice the
controller; so it's likely to cost twice as much.

If you could be satisfied with a much smaller vehicle, it scales the
whole problem down.

> "You may have to narrow down your criteria to get more reasonable
> answers. At present, it's pretty vague."
>
> what about now with the above details?

Mike Nickerson had a great list of questions to get started. I'll be
looking for your answers to them.
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

hi-tech
In reply to this post by Mike Nickerson
Mike,

You asked, "think a few more details would be illuminating:  How far do you want to drive it on one charge?"-

No more than 40 miles

" How fast do you want to go?"

55 max but normally less, 35-40. It was in my initial "subject" topic. Later on 4/27/11 10:07pm I  stated, "I do have several projects to acomplish but, 40 miles range and no more than 55mph small pickup truck, -nice looking- is ok for now."

you ask, "How fast do you want to get to that speed (acceleration)?"

not in hurry, 30 seconds for 55 mph if everok.

you ask "What will be the load in the truck besides a person or two and the batteries?",

my answer is 100 pounds [two bicycles], but really mostly 50 pounds of food bags.

 you ask "Mostly flat terrain or significant hills?  (Especially, any hills near the end of the drive home?)"

my answer is, no hills, just some short 'inclined' streets.

you stated "The range question and the load question will help determine whether lead-acid batteries will be sufficient."

ok

you stated, "All those questions will help determine the size of the motor and the size of the controller that would be necessary."

ok

you ask, _And finally, just because I have to know, what would the truck be doing that needs 80A at 12V, if you don't mind my asking?

i don't mind at all, i already mentioned in a previous post, that the converter is not not for that "truck"

"btw for another project I really need "DC/DC converter, 12-48v 1KW,  again low cost, it will be a kids club of kids. Can anyone advice about it?"

"And finally, just because I have to know, what would the truck be doing that needs 80A at 12V, if you don't mind my asking?"

I dont mind any questions,

It is not for the truck. Aamong other things, it will be to power motors for bicycle-tricycle etc, the reason is to stay away from 24, 36 and 48 volts batteries which are much more expensive and difficult to get.

Also I may have to use 500w motors, not 1kw as I have in mind, as they are easier to get.

Regarding the truck conversion I haven't found a donor yet. Whatever I buy, will need to get a complete kit from a supplier, at this time not 'time' to be looking around. Suggestions welcome.
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Re: "HOLY" CRAP, not too fast

hi-tech
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
Lee,

"These may be hard to find, as most people don't boost their voltages."

Yes, but as usual weird ideas get to my mind that works.

"What are you doing where you have a 12v input and want 48v output?"

see my previous post replying  to mike

"Today's Ford Ranger is not a small light vehicle." i noticed that, same for the s-10, see my topic jeep vs s-10.

"If you could be satisfied with a much smaller vehicle, it scales the whole problem down."

problem is can't find lighter pickup, the old datsun etc are rare and if i buy a very old light pickup truck it must be in showroom condition, so to speak, dont want to deal with rust and worn seats etc.

"Mike Nickerson had a great list of questions to get started. I'll be looking for your answers to them."

answers to Mike posted already

Finally I need references for suppliers with complete kits, I mean basic items no extras, for the particular truck.

btw I agree, cheap battery connectors is a joke, tight battery connections are a must for reliable driving, most problem with regular car batteries [not cranking] is just loose rusted conectors... , one more reason I never drive ICE cars with automatic transmission, they are not fun either.
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