saturn ev

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saturn ev

richarddthomas
Hi folks;
My 1995 saturn ev is now on the road and running. I was able to get it registered with temp plates pending inspection by the "Composite Vehicle Division of DMV CT. and have begun the breaking in process. I continue to be dogged by electrical issues, however. I posted a few weeks back about being unable to find an ignition wire without some sort of resistance. Thanks for your helpful responses. I finally by-passed that problem by wiring a separate switch directly from the aux battery to run the ev components. But now I have the same problem with the speedometer/tachometer. I have replaced the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) and the instrument cluster just to besure and I can run 12 volts trough that sensor, but as soon as I connect it to the existing color coded keyed 12 volt wiring the voltage drops to a reading of .05. and the speedometer does not work. The problem may have something to do with the computer responding to all those severed ICE sensor wires. I had an idea to direc!
 t wire the speedometer to the sensor. I discovered that there is 12 volts coming out of one pole on the speedometer side of the cluster with the key on so I connected this to one side of the speed sensor and ran the other side back to the other pole of the speedometer plug by placing prongs in the slots of the plug with the same color wires as the original wiring to the speed sensor. Still does not work. The factory manual says that many of the sensors operate with only 0.5 volts. Is there a way to fool the computer or eliminate the resistance in the wiring?
Any thoughts, on this? Looking for clues. But loving my new ev.  
Richard Thomas
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Re: saturn ev

David Beard
If you've over-reached your ability to diagnose and troubleshoot the original systems when converting your car..there is a service that you should look into. Allot of small shops use this system, and it is a great resource for solving problems like the one outlined here....

It's a subscription service, but the ease of use and completeness of the info provided will save you countless headaches.....

I have no connection to this company but have found it to be terrific!

David W. Beard
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Re: saturn ev

David Beard
In reply to this post by richarddthomas
The link might help....duh!

http://www.alldatadiy.com/
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Re: saturn ev

SteveS-5
Check your local library. Ours has a subscription to that service (or
one like it) and we can access it online with just our library card
number; free. Really nice. I was troubleshooting a neighbor's car on a
Sunday and jumped online and printed off a couple sheets dealing with
the problem - sweet.

- SteveS

[hidden email] wrote:

> The link might help....duh!
>
> http://www.alldatadiy.com/
> _____________________________________________________________
> Chances to WIN a Fabulous NYC Vacat
> Enter for your chance to WIN in the TotalBeauty.com Sweepstakes!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/JKFkuJkEEuh6SrueWA7XT3NdSvvOXWyQgjQ9aXsqVEscPnd34NcGiL/
>
>
>
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>
>  

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Re: saturn ev

Ricky Suiter
In reply to this post by richarddthomas
Congrats on getting your Saturn on the road, I hope
yours ends up being as efficient of a vehicle as mine
is (about 200 watt hrs/mile from the pack).

I had at least a similar problem with the speedometer,
or at least mine didn't work for the longest time and
I didn't know exactly how to tackle it and eventually
got some help. First the computer needs to be there,
second you need to check and make sure the computer is
powered and grounded properly. On mine there were some
brown ground wires in the engine bay that went to the
transmission housing that I didn't hook back up
thinking they were not necessary any more. Easiest way
to check is to get the wiring diagram for the computer
then use a test light and check for positive power
then hook the clip of the test light to your 12 volt
battery positive and check the grounds for the
computer, they all have to be there for the computer
to send the speed signal to the dash. After hooking up
two engine bay grounds for the computer mine started
working just fine.

On my 92 anyways it didn't matter that the computer
had every possible code stored in it, the speedo still
worked. If you get a tach signal going you can hook it
right in to the tach input in the engine compartment.
I have both working on mine.

Hope that helps,

Later,
Rick
92 Saturn SC Conversion
AZ Alt Fuel Plates "ZEROGAS"



------------

>Hi folks;
>My 1995 saturn ev is now on the road and running. I
was >able to get it
> registered with temp plates pending inspection by
the >"Composite
> Vehicle Division of DMV CT. and have begun the
>breaking in process. I
> continue to be dogged by electrical issues, however.
I >posted a few weeks back
> about being unable to find an ignition wire without
>some sort of
> resistance. Thanks for your helpful responses. I
>finally by-passed that
> problem by wiring a separate switch directly from
the >aux battery to run
> the ev components. But now I have the same problem
>with the
> speedometer/tachometer. I have replaced the VSS
>(vehicle speed sensor) and the
> instrument cluster just to besure and I can run 12
>volts trough that sensor,
> but as soon as I connect it to the existing color
>coded keyed 12 volt
> wiring the voltage drops to a reading of .05. and
the >speedometer does

> not work. The problem may have something to do with
>the computer
> responding to all those severed ICE sensor wires. I
>had an idea to direc!
> t wire the speedometer to the sensor. I discovered
>that there is 12
> volts coming out of one pole on the speedometer side
>of the cluster with
> the key on so I connected this to one side of the
>speed sensor and ran
> the other side back to the other pole of the
>speedometer plug by
> placing prongs in the slots of the plug with the
same >color wires as the
> original wiring to the speed sensor. Still does not
>work. The factory
> manual says that many of the sensors operate with
only >0.5 volts. Is there a
> way to fool the computer or eliminate the resistance
>in the wiring?
>Any thoughts, on this? Looking for clues. But loving
my >new ev.  
>Richard Thomas


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Re: saturn ev

richarddthomas
Hi Ricky
Thanks for your response. Bob Rice said you were a Saturn guy and I hoped to
hear from you about this.  I will lok into the ground wire situation, good
clue and something I was wondering about  also Where was (is) the tach
sensor located? The idle backup sensor on trans works just fine. Can you say
more about  your Saturn? What kind of range are you getting, how many
batteries etc. do you commute, what is the weight? I have installed heavier
springs with 20 US batteries, zivan charger, Impulse 9 motor, curtis
controller. So far I have only made 2 trips of about 4 miles each and will
do a 12 mile round trip into New Haven today. Thanks again
Richard Thomas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricky Suiter" <[hidden email]>
To: "EV List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] saturn ev


> Congrats on getting your Saturn on the road, I hope
> yours ends up being as efficient of a vehicle as mine
> is (about 200 watt hrs/mile from the pack).
>
> I had at least a similar problem with the speedometer,
> or at least mine didn't work for the longest time and
> I didn't know exactly how to tackle it and eventually
> got some help. First the computer needs to be there,
> second you need to check and make sure the computer is
> powered and grounded properly. On mine there were some
> brown ground wires in the engine bay that went to the
> transmission housing that I didn't hook back up
> thinking they were not necessary any more. Easiest way
> to check is to get the wiring diagram for the computer
> then use a test light and check for positive power
> then hook the clip of the test light to your 12 volt
> battery positive and check the grounds for the
> computer, they all have to be there for the computer
> to send the speed signal to the dash. After hooking up
> two engine bay grounds for the computer mine started
> working just fine.
>
> On my 92 anyways it didn't matter that the computer
> had every possible code stored in it, the speedo still
> worked. If you get a tach signal going you can hook it
> right in to the tach input in the engine compartment.
> I have both working on mine.
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Later,
> Rick
> 92 Saturn SC Conversion
> AZ Alt Fuel Plates "ZEROGAS"
>
>
>
> ------------
>
>>Hi folks;
>>My 1995 saturn ev is now on the road and running. I
> was >able to get it
>> registered with temp plates pending inspection by
> the >"Composite
>> Vehicle Division of DMV CT. and have begun the
>>breaking in process. I
>> continue to be dogged by electrical issues, however.
> I >posted a few weeks back
>> about being unable to find an ignition wire without
>>some sort of
>> resistance. Thanks for your helpful responses. I
>>finally by-passed that
>> problem by wiring a separate switch directly from
> the >aux battery to run
>> the ev components. But now I have the same problem
>>with the
>> speedometer/tachometer. I have replaced the VSS
>>(vehicle speed sensor) and the
>> instrument cluster just to besure and I can run 12
>>volts trough that sensor,
>> but as soon as I connect it to the existing color
>>coded keyed 12 volt
>> wiring the voltage drops to a reading of .05. and
> the >speedometer does
>> not work. The problem may have something to do with
>>the computer
>> responding to all those severed ICE sensor wires. I
>>had an idea to direc!
>> t wire the speedometer to the sensor. I discovered
>>that there is 12
>> volts coming out of one pole on the speedometer side
>>of the cluster with
>> the key on so I connected this to one side of the
>>speed sensor and ran
>> the other side back to the other pole of the
>>speedometer plug by
>> placing prongs in the slots of the plug with the
> same >color wires as the
>> original wiring to the speed sensor. Still does not
>>work. The factory
>> manual says that many of the sensors operate with
> only >0.5 volts. Is there a
>> way to fool the computer or eliminate the resistance
>>in the wiring?
>>Any thoughts, on this? Looking for clues. But loving
> my >new ev.
>>Richard Thomas
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
>
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 


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Re: saturn ev

Tyler Marshall
In reply to this post by Ricky Suiter
Ricky,

How did you get your tach working?  on my '97 there is some type of
fancy magnetic tach sensing unit on the back of the engine the senses
a 7-toothed gear on the crank in the engine.  Is this the same on your
92?  How did you work around that?  I'd LOVE to use the original tach!

-Tyler Marshall


On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:48 PM, Ricky Suiter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  If you get a tach signal going you can hook it
>  right in to the tach input in the engine compartment.
>  I have both working on mine.

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Re: saturn ev

Jon Glauser
This would be good to know. I'm also trying to get the tach working in my
car (Toyota Tercel). I hooked up a function generator and found I need
~50% duty cycle 2 pulse per revolution signal above 12V to make it work. I
can hear it buzzing at these low frequencies.. I wonder if it will be
annoying to hear my tach without engine noise to hide it.

-Jon Glauser
http://www.evalbum.com/555

<quote who="T. Marshall">
> Ricky,
>
> How did you get your tach working?  on my '97 there is some type of
> fancy magnetic tach sensing unit on the back of the engine the senses
> a 7-toothed gear on the crank in the engine.  Is this the same on your
> 92?  How did you work around that?  I'd LOVE to use the original tach!
>
> -Tyler Marshall

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Re: saturn ev

TrotFox Greyfoot
In reply to this post by Tyler Marshall
You can't just mount a 7-tooth wheel on the motor?  I would think it
wouldn't be that hard to fabricate one with some patience and a
Dremel...  If you know someone with a lathe, even better!

Granted, I'm known to enjoy doing things the hard way...

Trot, the amateur-machinist, fox...

On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 12:46 PM, T. Marshall <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Ricky,
>
>  How did you get your tach working?  on my '97 there is some type of
>  fancy magnetic tach sensing unit on the back of the engine the senses
>  a 7-toothed gear on the crank in the engine.  Is this the same on your
>  92?  How did you work around that?  I'd LOVE to use the original tach!
>
>  -Tyler Marshall


--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [hidden email] \ third alternative."

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Re: saturn ev

Ricky Suiter
In reply to this post by richarddthomas
Definitely check those ground wires for the computer,
I want to say there were three total on mine. I about
took my instrument cluster to a shop to have them
repair it, but I'm glad I didn't jump the gun on that
one and waste the time and money.

The tach signal I want to say was coming from the coil
packs on the transmission. I can't say off the top of
my head, but it was just one wire I clipped and
spliced the Zilla's output to and it worked right off
the bat (after enabling the option in the hairball).
Actually, I had a GPS originally to determine my speed
with and I learned what rpm in what gear meant what
speed and thats how I lived with no speedometer for a
while.

I'm not sure if you can get around the computer or not
for the speedometer, I'd need an oscilloscope to
figure that one out, but it would be nice if we could.

The car is a 92 SC, I have a 9.1" ADC motor barely fit
to the stock manual transmission. I have 18 T-875's in
it, 6 under the hood, 8 hung below the trunk where the
spare tire was and 4 right behind the rear seat. I
still have the back seat and a decent bit of trunk
space in a relatively small car so I was rather happy
to have accomplished that.

I'm running a 300 battery amp limit to protect the
batteries from my right foot, acceleration is nothing
to write home about, but even at that I still managed
to get the car up to 85mph on a slight uphill the
other night without going below 1.75 volts per cell. I
have a 27 mile one way commute on less than ideal
freeway and this takes about 50% of the charge to go
one way and I charge at my destination and bike the
last mile. PFC-30 charger in the right side of the
trunk behind the wheel well hump. It makes it
practical, but as it heats up the charger is making
PFC-20 level amps. I wish it were water cooled. The
Zilla 1K seems to be working quite well so far, but
I'm going to add a small additional radiator to it for
extra cooling before it gets too hot here.

I don't know how much the car weights other than a lot
and admittedly probably well past the GVW. Still, it
does what I need it to do and I don't think I've
started my gas car in about 2 weeks now so I should
probably fire it up soon.

Rick


------------------

>Hi Ricky
>Thanks for your response. Bob Rice said you were a
>Saturn guy and I
> hoped to
>hear from you about this.  I will lok into the ground
>wire situation,
> good
>clue and something I was wondering about  also Where
>was (is) the tach
>sensor located? The idle backup sensor on trans works
>just fine. Can
> you say
>more about  your Saturn? What kind of range are you
>getting, how many
>batteries etc. do you commute, what is the weight? I
>have installed
> heavier
>springs with 20 US batteries, zivan charger, Impulse
9 >motor, curtis
>controller. So far I have only made 2 trips of about
4 >miles each and
> will
>do a 12 mile round trip into New Haven today. Thanks
>again
>Richard Thomas


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Re: saturn ev

Ricky Suiter
In reply to this post by richarddthomas
I'm just going off of memory for something I hooked up
a couple years ago, but I think there was a tach
signal wire coming out of the coil packs that were
attached to the transmission. I have the Zilla tach
package with the magnet that goes on the tail shaft of
the ADC motor and the hairball output is connected to
the wire in the car that goes to the dash. It should
just be 4 pulses per revolution like any other 4cyl
car.

Rick


-----------------
>Ricky,
>
>How did you get your tach working?  on my '97 there
is >some type of
>fancy magnetic tach sensing unit on the back of the
>engine the senses
>a 7-toothed gear on the crank in the engine.  Is this
the >same on your
>92?  How did you work around that?  I'd LOVE to use
the >original tach!
>
>-Tyler Marshall


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Re: saturn ev

Mark Grasser
Well except it would be two pulses per rev for a four cylinder.

Mark Grasser
Balyntec
Marine Products, LLC
828-581-4601
[hidden email]


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Ricky Suiter
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 6:57 PM
To: EV List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] saturn ev

I'm just going off of memory for something I hooked up
a couple years ago, but I think there was a tach
signal wire coming out of the coil packs that were
attached to the transmission. I have the Zilla tach
package with the magnet that goes on the tail shaft of
the ADC motor and the hairball output is connected to
the wire in the car that goes to the dash. It should
just be 4 pulses per revolution like any other 4cyl
car.

Rick


-----------------
>Ricky,
>
>How did you get your tach working?  on my '97 there
is >some type of
>fancy magnetic tach sensing unit on the back of the
>engine the senses
>a 7-toothed gear on the crank in the engine.  Is this
the >same on your
>92?  How did you work around that?  I'd LOVE to use
the >original tach!
>
>-Tyler Marshall


 
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________
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Access, No Cost. W00t
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Re: saturn ev

Steven Wilson-5
In reply to this post by richarddthomas
Richard,

I see in your email that you have a Saturn in CT and will drive it to
New Haven, so you might be close to Bob Rice's house.  Will you be going
to the EV club meeting on Saturday April 12?  If so, and it is not too
far, will you bring the Saturn?  I will be bringing a guy ready to do an
EV daily driver...

I don't see you on the NEEAA club mailing address list, are you going to
join?


Regards,

Steve Wilson
Hyde Park, NY

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Re: saturn ev

richarddthomas
Steven
Yes I hope to be at the EV meeting April 12 with my Saturn. I am getting it
inspected today at DMV. I don't know what to expect, but I will share the
story here and so might Bob Rice if he is able to make it down. So I might
be legal by then. Who knows?
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Wilson" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] saturn ev


> Richard,
>
> I see in your email that you have a Saturn in CT and will drive it to
> New Haven, so you might be close to Bob Rice's house.  Will you be going
> to the EV club meeting on Saturday April 12?  If so, and it is not too
> far, will you bring the Saturn?  I will be bringing a guy ready to do an
> EV daily driver...
>
> I don't see you on the NEEAA club mailing address list, are you going to
> join?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve Wilson
> Hyde Park, NY
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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Re: saturn ev

dave cover-2
RIchard

Good luck with CT DMV. I hope to be meeting with them next month. Any
insight you can glean from the experience will be greatly appreciated.

Dave Cover

On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 11:00 AM, richarddthomas
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Steven
>  Yes I hope to be at the EV meeting April 12 with my Saturn. I am getting it
>  inspected today at DMV. I don't know what to expect, but I will share the
>  story here and so might Bob Rice if he is able to make it down. So I might
>  be legal by then. Who knows?
>  Richard
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Steven Wilson" <[hidden email]>
>  To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
>  Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 7:19 PM
>  Subject: Re: [EVDL] saturn ev
>
>
>  > Richard,
>  >
>  > I see in your email that you have a Saturn in CT and will drive it to
>  > New Haven, so you might be close to Bob Rice's house.  Will you be going
>  > to the EV club meeting on Saturday April 12?  If so, and it is not too
>  > far, will you bring the Saturn?  I will be bringing a guy ready to do an
>  > EV daily driver...
>  >
>  > I don't see you on the NEEAA club mailing address list, are you going to
>  > join?
>  >
>  >
>  > Regards,
>  >
>  > Steve Wilson
>  > Hyde Park, NY
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > For subscription options, see
>  > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>  >
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  For subscription options, see
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>

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Re: saturn ev Saturn Saga, 630LBS; Part 1 I guess?

Bob Rice-2
In reply to this post by richarddthomas
  Hi EVerybody;
----- Original Message -----
From: "richarddthomas" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] saturn ev


> Steven
> Yes I hope to be at the EV meeting April 12 with my Saturn. I am getting
> it
> inspected today at DMV. I don't know what to expect, but I will share the
> story here and so might Bob Rice if he is able to make it down. So I might
> be legal by then. Who knows?
> Richard

      Cut to Down Here;

      Just got home from the Inspection, at DMV's at Hamden (New Haven). BIG
issue was the weight. They have a slick setup to TEST the braking force AND
front alignment, all in two passes! The BIG one was the old Led Sled
syndrome. Saturn was 600 lbs OVER the GVW. NO way is this gunna pass.
Sigh.BOTH axles, fore and aft. Car HAS to go on a diet? STARTING with
leaving the spare an' jack home? 30 lbs, but we have a LONG way MORE to go?I
guess it COULD be a 60 volt Saturn, so SOMETHING can still be had?Or going
to Hawker Aero Batteries? Rich has 120 volts worth of T-105 equilivents.,
now.

     MY argument doesn't hold much battery water: Oh well it's a LOW
performance car. You AREN'T gunna be demanding stops from 100 mph, lucky for
50-60? But the State doesn't look at it this way. IF you can or want to
spend big bux, probably? to Recert. the damn car to carry more? Like bigger
brakes, etc. There ARE outfits that upgrade GVW's, like limos ,that are a
block long, etc.I see it tough for a plain jane car like a Saturn, though.
Fitting GMC front discs and rear drums, etc??The BIG issue would be braking
ability? Will the Led Sled STOP as needed?

    This was, like the single torpedo that sunk the Lusitania, the Big One!
Other stuff, they were happy with, neatness of Rich's work, no problems.Oh a
little dry rot on two tires. Big deal? Tires were rated for the weight.All
the lights just WORKED fine! Something I can't say for my Jetta! I MIGHT be
able to eeek through with Jetta as it has a 3400 GVW? I'm THERE, damn it!
Dave Oliveria may be Home Free with the Ranger? It IS a truck, and PROBABLY
be upgraded easily?

   One of the questions popped by the DMV guy; "What are guyz DOING in, say,
CA, OR ,WA,and other hotbeds of EV activity?" These guyz aren't entirely
clueless. What was OUR standard? I mean OTHER than buying 25 year old cars
and stuffing them full of batteries? Let's face it, I ran 3100lb Rabbit for
8 years, 300 lbs OVER GVW. OK I lived with it. drove carefully, I'm 300 lbs,
too! Sigh! As I KNEW the damn car wasn't as light and nimble as a stock 1900
lb bunny. The 72 volt Rabbit conversion would get ya under GVW, nicely. Or
go with Hawker Areo Batteries? I don't think Wayland's Blue Meany is
overweight? Lite Hy Voltage badd-ery pack. Hawkers? IF Richard wanted to,
say, go with 10-15 Hawkers, Higher voltage without the 1200 lbs of weight?
Car would be lighter, but the range will suffer?Another DOWN thing with
newer cars; IF it's THERE it hasta work, like the ABS brakes?WHAT part of
the cars computer controls THAT? Or the Air Bags? They didn't mention THAT?
Or the damn Speedo?

   As I have maintained that conversions are for the Maschisticly(sp?)
inclined. A conversion sorta works, commuted EVery day in mine, for 9 years
to get to my 'stench chorded EV's, Amtrak's. I know we covered GVW a few
weaks ago on the List. It doesn't get covered like the Soldering?crimping?
thing, which, like a burnt off post, battery, I mean. Comes back to haunt
us, EVery 6 months or so. What with newbee churn, etc. I SOLDER, BTW. But
sure get enough arguments against it, though. Not for the faint hearted,
though.I use a Acthtelene torch..... LOTS of heat!  Hack off an cast my NEW
Posts!

   Back to the diss-cussion. To be streetable we may have to shed a shitload
of batteries?This is WHY I cheer Lee's effort with Sunrise, Jerry with
Freedom, scion of "Lumberghini".  Lumberghini, plywood marvel , gorgius
laminated woody roll bar, etc.WORKED! It was light, simple, scooted along
the secondery roads at a good enough speed.Think Jerry STILL has the right
idea. It should be restored ,and in Jerry's Museum, someday! Inside, in
front window display. Boy! You should see James Worden's Solectria Museum,
EVery significent EV car he EVer did, ALL in his big barn! SOMEDAY I hope
he'll open it to an appreciative public?AND rides on his trolley system,
too."Worden Electric Railway"

    I look at conversions as a sort of "In YOUR Face" thing, til we get some
engineered cars. DESIGNED as a EV? So Sheeple think, IF that EV geek, Bob
Rice can build one WHY can't General Murders? Local Sheeple see my driving
all over hell an' gone in one or the other, cars.They might EVen THINK EV's
are possable? New sign for an EV;  "I may be slow away from the light, but I
FLY past Gas Stations!"

   I followed Richard over to the Boston Market for dinner. Car looked and
rode nicely. Didn't look like a guy carrying a grand piano on his back. Car
looked good! You would NEVER know it was different other than "Electric
Vehicle" sign in the rear window.DMV guyz liked the gas filler charge plug
setup, they got a grin on that! "That's HOW ya charge it?"

   Hey Ricky Suiter??; How did you handle the weight thing? MAYBE Other
States are a tad more lenient with the Weight Issue. I Rich's case are there
Bolt On brake upgrades? And a NSTSA cetified shop, to cert. upgrades? Lottsa
OTHER questions to address here.Any OTHER Saturn guyz here?

   What a can of worms here, though? You add alot of weight to the ass end
of a small car, it wasn't DESIGNED for several hundred EXTRA Lbs in back?
The wimpy springs prove that! The FRONT, I think you are almost home free?
The weight of the Diseasel ya pulled out, then adding enough badd-eries, to
make it sit about level? "The OTHER 13 are in the trunk", ya tell folks at
Show and Tell. But when weighing up Rich's Saturn the FRONT was heavier!
Dispite that the REAR was full of batteries. It's 2 seater now.Who'd a thunk
it? I thought for SURE it was a tail dragger! I'm not an automotive
engineer, but alota though must go into stock car design.I have gotten away
with MY designs, so far. Like getting springs built so car LOOKS level, sits
"Right". As to a shalom course? Haven't tried!

     Most cars are nose heavy? For a ride and handling thing? Not MY thing.I
sorta shade tree guess at alota stuff? Car goes down the road, and it does
what I need it to do. Covered wagons didn't have heat and air conditioning
and were rather slow, too! Somehow we got by! For fun, drive a '62 Falcon
down the freeway 70-75 MPH .....AFTER you have lived with your Prius awile!
'Aint car technology wonderful!?

    OK, Over to youse guyz.

     Seeya

     Bob

      Maybe Richard can sneek the car out to the meeting?On his Temp.
Tag???Be  A sport<g>!


>> Richard,
>>
>> I see in your email that you have a Saturn in CT and will drive it to
>> New Haven, so you might be close to Bob Rice's house.  Will you be going
>> to the EV club meeting on Saturday April 12?  If so, and it is not too
>> far, will you bring the Saturn?  I will be bringing a guy ready to do an
>> EV daily driver...
>>
>> I don't see you on the NEEAA club mailing address list, are you going to
>> join?
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Steve Wilson
>> Hyde Park, NY
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 

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Re: saturn ev Saturn Saga, 630LBS; Part 1 I guess?

Ricky Suiter
Arizona didn't require any weighing of the car. In
fact I just barely had the car running when I took it
in for inspection to get the fuel type changed. That
was the only real issue was the fuel type because
otherwise it would have come up I needed an emissions
test before I could register the car. Although, by
getting my fuel type changed to "X" it automatically
flags the vehicle in the system to A) Never need an
emissions test again, and B) Gives me alternative fuel
license plates and the accompanied extremely cheap
registration (it was $18 and some change for 2 years,
then I spend another $50 a year for a custom plate...
hah, gotta love that). So yeah, Arizona is cool.

On top of that when I took it in I was still awaiting
the custom lifting springs for the rear so my rear
most battery box was sitting about 3 in off the
ground, this didn't seem to be an issue. They
commented that my work was nice and clean and a lot
better than some of what they had seen come through
there.

As for GVW, yeah I know I'm well over it. AZ doesn't
care I guess. I'd say temporarily make your car lower
voltage, then once your inspection is over with put
the batteries back in. Say the empty battery boxes are
for extra storage if they ask. And who cares if this
means towing the car in for inspection, you can get it
on the road that way.

I have the stock brakes, wish I had something larger.
There isn't a whole lot in the way of options. No one
makes any bolt on brake kits for Saturns that I've
been able to find. What there is, at least as an
option for my SC, was factory rear disks. There are
arguments for and against this setup to no end, but
I'm half considering going junk yarding for the
brackets and such I'd need to convert the rear drums
to disks, then get new remanufactured calipers, new
disks and pads. I'm not sure if this would reduce the
range or not because of the constant drag.

Keep us posted.

Rick

------
Hey Ricky Suiter??; How did you handle the weight
thing? MAYBE Other
 
States are a tad more lenient with the Weight Issue. I
Rich's case are
 there
Bolt On brake upgrades? And a NSTSA cetified shop, to
cert. upgrades?
 Lottsa
OTHER questions to address here.Any OTHER Saturn guyz here?


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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Re: saturn ev Saturn Saga, 630LBS; Part 1 I guess?

jerryd
In reply to this post by Bob Rice-2

            Hi Bob and All,

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] saturn ev  Saturn Saga, 630LBS; Part 1 I
guess?
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 22:21:20 -0400

>  Hi EVerybody;
>->
>      Cut to Down Here;
>
>      Just got home from the Inspection, at DMV's at Hamden
>(New Haven). BIG  issue was the weight. They have a slick
>setup to TEST the braking force AND  front alignment, all
>in two passes! The BIG one was the old Led Sled  syndrome.
>Saturn was 600 lbs OVER the GVW. NO way is this gunna pass.
>Sigh.BOTH axles, fore and aft. Car HAS to go on a diet?
>STARTING with  leaving the spare an' jack home? 30 lbs, but
>we have a LONG way MORE to go?I  guess it COULD be a 60
>volt Saturn, so SOMETHING can still be had?Or going  to
>Hawker Aero Batteries? Rich has 120 volts worth of T-105
>equilivents.,  now.

          If it's braking you can use Saturn's SL Coupe's
rear dics brakes and/or switch to Wilwood brakes, ect, I'm
using for the Freedom's front brakes. Just bolt them on.
          You can as the builder increase the GVW by
increasing brakes, springs, ect and making a new GVW sticker
just like other limo, ect converters probably.
          Or switch as you say to lighter or fewer batts for
the inspection to pass.
>
>
>   Back to the diss-cussion. To be streetable we may have
>to shed a shitload  of batteries?This is WHY I cheer Lee's
>effort with Sunrise, Jerry with  Freedom, scion of
>"Lumberghini".  Lumberghini, plywood marvel , gorgius
>laminated woody roll bar, etc.WORKED!

       The Ewoody was rather cool, light, easy, inexpensive
to build, run at $1000 for 10 yrs.. I'd be building another
improved version if I wasn't trying to do a production
version. In fact I took the improved version I had started
and used it to make the Freedom EV's male mold I made the FG
production mold from.

It was light, simple,
>scooted along  the secondery roads at a good enough
>speed.Think Jerry STILL has the right  idea.

         It did 60 mph though the roads I needed to get
around were 50mph or less. It normally went 45mph on a 36vdc
battery pack of T105's, 60 mph with field weakening.


 It should be
>restored ,and in Jerry's Museum, someday! Inside, in  front
>window display. Boy! You should see James Worden's
>Solectria Museum,  EVery significent EV car he EVer did,
>ALL in his big barn! SOMEDAY I hope  he'll open it to an
>appreciative public?AND rides on his trolley system,
>too."Worden Electric Railway"

           Worden really has some cool EV's there.


>
>
>   I followed Richard over to the Boston Market for dinner.
>Car looked and  rode nicely. Didn't look like a guy
>carrying a grand piano on his back. Car  looked good! You
>would NEVER know it was different other than "Electric
>Vehicle" sign in the rear window.DMV guyz liked the gas
>filler charge plug  setup, they got a grin on that! "That's
>HOW ya charge it?"
>
>   Hey Ricky Suiter??; How did you handle the weight thing?
>MAYBE Other  States are a tad more lenient with the Weight
>Issue. I Rich's case are there  Bolt On brake upgrades? And
>a NSTSA cetified shop, to cert. upgrades? Lottsa  OTHER
>questions to address here.Any OTHER Saturn guyz here?

        Here in Fla you just have to prove it will stop, go
45mph, receipts so nothing stolen, lights, horn, windshield
wipers, ect.

                                  Jerry Dycus
>
>
>    OK, Over to youse guyz.
>
>     Seeya
>
>     Bob
>

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Re: saturn ev Saturn Saga, 630LBS; Part 1 I guess?

Mark Ward-3
In reply to this post by Bob Rice-2
Ricky,  Glad to hear that Arizona is a pro-ev state!  While we don't emissions inspect cars before 95 model year any longer, they do impose an unfair Special fuel tax of $78 to oppress those who don't buy gas or diesel.  I have already talked to my state representative (a neighbor) who is excited about my car and will sponsor a bill next year to get rid of the tax on EVs.   Keep in mind I don't mind buying my plates which cost about the same as a 4 cylinder car anyway.  

I pointed out that a Prius would only pay about $50 in MO  fuel tax for 15,000 miles traveled and the representatives I contacted understood the unfairness of the tax immediately.

So my plates ended up costing $102.50 by the time I paid the agent fee. If I can't get the law changed,  I may just scrape the sticker off next January and run without it.  Most of the cops have no idea what it is anyway.  Or better yet, re-title it in Illinois under my Dad's name where the plates are only $27 for 3 years (what I am told anyway) and they don't oppress EV owners!  Why not tax the Hummers, Expeditions, Escallades and other glutton vehicles for how many tons of CO2 they emit?  

If I hadn't already paid so much I would have ordered a special plate too.  Mine would say IH8 GAS!

Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com





----- Original Message ----
From: Ricky Suiter <[hidden email]>
To: EV List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2008 11:15:58 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] saturn ev  Saturn Saga, 630LBS; Part 1 I guess?

Arizona didn't require any weighing of the car. In
fact I just barely had the car running when I took it
in for inspection to get the fuel type changed. That
was the only real issue was the fuel type because
otherwise it would have come up I needed an emissions
test before I could register the car. Although, by
getting my fuel type changed to "X" it automatically
flags the vehicle in the system to A) Never need an
emissions test again, and B) Gives me alternative fuel
license plates and the accompanied extremely cheap
registration (it was $18 and some change for 2 years,
then I spend another $50 a year for a custom plate...
hah, gotta love that). So yeah, Arizona is cool.

On top of that when I took it in I was still awaiting
the custom lifting springs for the rear so my rear
most battery box was sitting about 3 in off the
ground, this didn't seem to be an issue. They
commented that my work was nice and clean and a lot
better than some of what they had seen come through
there.

As for GVW, yeah I know I'm well over it. AZ doesn't
care I guess. I'd say temporarily make your car lower
voltage, then once your inspection is over with put
the batteries back in. Say the empty battery boxes are
for extra storage if they ask. And who cares if this
means towing the car in for inspection, you can get it
on the road that way.

I have the stock brakes, wish I had something larger.
There isn't a whole lot in the way of options. No one
makes any bolt on brake kits for Saturns that I've
been able to find. What there is, at least as an
option for my SC, was factory rear disks. There are
arguments for and against this setup to no end, but
I'm half considering going junk yarding for the
brackets and such I'd need to convert the rear drums
to disks, then get new remanufactured calipers, new
disks and pads. I'm not sure if this would reduce the
range or not because of the constant drag.

Keep us posted.

Rick

------
Hey Ricky Suiter??; How did you handle the weight
thing? MAYBE Other
 
States are a tad more lenient with the Weight Issue. I
Rich's case are
 there
Bolt On brake upgrades? And a NSTSA cetified shop, to
cert. upgrades?
 Lottsa
OTHER questions to address here.Any OTHER Saturn guyz here?


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.  
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



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Re: saturn ev Saturn Saga, 630LBS; Part 1 I guess?

Roland Wiench
See other options for motor vehicle registration for your state.  It is best
to down load the info for your state under Motor Vehicle Departments.

There are some things that the VMD will not tell you with big signs that you
can do certain types of registrations.

I found, that if my vehicle is over 11 years old, I need only to get a
permanent license plate after that amount of time.  I can also sent in a
request to keep my old original license plates on my car, when they come out
with a new replacements.

To get my EV original inspected in Montana, the sheriff came by with his 1
hp and said yep, I verified you have it and sign it off.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Ward" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] saturn ev Saturn Saga, 630LBS; Part 1 I guess?


> Ricky,  Glad to hear that Arizona is a pro-ev state!  While we don't
> emissions inspect cars before 95 model year any longer, they do impose an
> unfair Special fuel tax of $78 to oppress those who don't buy gas or
> diesel.  I have already talked to my state representative (a neighbor) who
> is excited about my car and will sponsor a bill next year to get rid of
> the tax on EVs.   Keep in mind I don't mind buying my plates which cost
> about the same as a 4 cylinder car anyway.
>
> I pointed out that a Prius would only pay about $50 in MO  fuel tax for
> 15,000 miles traveled and the representatives I contacted understood the
> unfairness of the tax immediately.
>
> So my plates ended up costing $102.50 by the time I paid the agent fee. If
> I can't get the law changed,  I may just scrape the sticker off next
> January and run without it.  Most of the cops have no idea what it is
> anyway.  Or better yet, re-title it in Illinois under my Dad's name where
> the plates are only $27 for 3 years (what I am told anyway) and they don't
> oppress EV owners!  Why not tax the Hummers, Expeditions, Escallades and
> other glutton vehicles for how many tons of CO2 they emit?
>
> If I hadn't already paid so much I would have ordered a special plate too.
> Mine would say IH8 GAS!
>
> Mark Ward
> 95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
> www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Ricky Suiter <[hidden email]>
> To: EV List <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2008 11:15:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] saturn ev  Saturn Saga, 630LBS; Part 1 I guess?
>
> Arizona didn't require any weighing of the car. In
> fact I just barely had the car running when I took it
> in for inspection to get the fuel type changed. That
> was the only real issue was the fuel type because
> otherwise it would have come up I needed an emissions
> test before I could register the car. Although, by
> getting my fuel type changed to "X" it automatically
> flags the vehicle in the system to A) Never need an
> emissions test again, and B) Gives me alternative fuel
> license plates and the accompanied extremely cheap
> registration (it was $18 and some change for 2 years,
> then I spend another $50 a year for a custom plate...
> hah, gotta love that). So yeah, Arizona is cool.
>
> On top of that when I took it in I was still awaiting
> the custom lifting springs for the rear so my rear
> most battery box was sitting about 3 in off the
> ground, this didn't seem to be an issue. They
> commented that my work was nice and clean and a lot
> better than some of what they had seen come through
> there.
>
> As for GVW, yeah I know I'm well over it. AZ doesn't
> care I guess. I'd say temporarily make your car lower
> voltage, then once your inspection is over with put
> the batteries back in. Say the empty battery boxes are
> for extra storage if they ask. And who cares if this
> means towing the car in for inspection, you can get it
> on the road that way.
>
> I have the stock brakes, wish I had something larger.
> There isn't a whole lot in the way of options. No one
> makes any bolt on brake kits for Saturns that I've
> been able to find. What there is, at least as an
> option for my SC, was factory rear disks. There are
> arguments for and against this setup to no end, but
> I'm half considering going junk yarding for the
> brackets and such I'd need to convert the rear drums
> to disks, then get new remanufactured calipers, new
> disks and pads. I'm not sure if this would reduce the
> range or not because of the constant drag.
>
> Keep us posted.
>
> Rick
>
> ------
> Hey Ricky Suiter??; How did you handle the weight
> thing? MAYBE Other
>
> States are a tad more lenient with the Weight Issue. I
> Rich's case are
>  there
> Bolt On brake upgrades? And a NSTSA cetified shop, to
> cert. upgrades?
>  Lottsa
> OTHER questions to address here.Any OTHER Saturn guyz here?
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster
> Total Access, No Cost.
> http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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123