seating brushes

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
33 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

seating brushes

Christopher Darilek
I'm spinning my motor on 12V to seat the brushes.  I've heard to do this for 8 hours.  Do you want to do this until the complete brush end is contoured to the armature?  My brushes still have ~1/16th of an inch on the edges that do not touch the armature.  Keep going?

Thanks,
Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120518/fe77b018/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: seating brushes

Jeff Major
There is "seating" and there is "shaping".  Shaping gets the brush face exactly matched to the commutator.  Seating conditions the brush face thru the action of passing current.  It also puts down a layer of carbon/graphite on the copper comm surface called patina or comm filming.

Shaping brushes can be done to some degree with sandpaper or a dressing stone.  It should have been done at the motor factory.  It is never 100% accurate due to the thickness of the paper or abrasive material.  It can be done with no current, just armature rotation.

Seating will further shape the brush but also conditions the face.  The result is a shiny smooth appearance to the brush face and darkening of comm surface.  Seating brushes requires voltage, current and rotation.  It can take a few dozen to a few 100 hours of running at load.

Running the motor at 12V at no-load draws low current and therefore does not seat (or shape) brushes quickly.  So I'd say the longer the better.  8 hours is good.  4 or 5 eight hour stints better.  Put a fan on the motor to keep it cooler.  And then drive your EV easy for the first few hundred miles.  Your motor will be a lot happier and run more efficiently and live longer :-)

Jeff M

--- On Fri, 5/18/12, Christopher Darilek <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'm spinning my motor on 12V to seat
> the brushes.  I've heard to do this for 8 hours.  Do you
> want to do this until the complete brush end is contoured to
> the armature?  My brushes still have ~1/16th of an inch on
> the edges that do not touch the armature.  Keep going?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris


_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: seating brushes

Dennis Miles
I was taught to shape first with "Crocus cloth strips slightly wider than
the length of the brushes. Loop the strip of cloth abrasive side toward the
brush and pull first one end then the other to shape the brush face to very
close to the shape of the commutator then do the other brushes also,
Finally run the motor after blowing out all loose dust with a can of "Air"
run it with 12 volts for about 16 hiurs, then reinstall it if it was
removed and avoid more than 1/3rd of typical current for a hundred miles of
driving and visually check for the deposit of a grey band of carbon as the
armature is buffed down by the rubbing brushes and the current transfer.
if it is fairly uniform,(NO darker or lighter banding ) then blow out the
dust again paying special attention to the groves between the segments of
the commutator. and go drive (If there are strong black and light rings,
shape the brushes again and buff the commutator the same way but with the
cloth turned to abrasive toward the commutator segments) then repeat the
seating 16 hours on 12 volts and continue.
 Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles*   (Founder)
 *"**Electric Car Service Shop"*
*[ the Forgotten Infrastructure ]*

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Jeff Major <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There is "seating" and there is "shaping".  Shaping gets the brush face
> exactly matched to the commutator.  Seating conditions the brush face thru
> the action of passing current.  It also puts down a layer of
> carbon/graphite on the copper comm surface called patina or comm filming.
>
> Shaping brushes can be done to some degree with sandpaper or a dressing
> stone.  It should have been done at the motor factory.  It is never 100%
> accurate due to the thickness of the paper or abrasive material.  It can be
> done with no current, just armature rotation.
>
> Seating will further shape the brush but also conditions the face.  The
> result is a shiny smooth appearance to the brush face and darkening of comm
> surface.  Seating brushes requires voltage, current and rotation.  It can
> take a few dozen to a few 100 hours of running at load.
>
> Running the motor at 12V at no-load draws low current and therefore does
> not seat (or shape) brushes quickly.  So I'd say the longer the better.  8
> hours is good.  4 or 5 eight hour stints better.  Put a fan on the motor to
> keep it cooler.  And then drive your EV easy for the first few hundred
> miles.  Your motor will be a lot happier and run more efficiently and live
> longer :-)
>
> Jeff M
>
> --- On Fri, 5/18/12, Christopher Darilek <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I'm spinning my motor on 12V to seat
> > the brushes.  I've heard to do this for 8 hours.  Do you
> > want to do this until the complete brush end is contoured to
> > the armature?  My brushes still have ~1/16th of an inch on
> > the edges that do not touch the armature.  Keep going?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120518/024d7257/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: seating brushes

EVDL Administrator
On 18 May 2012 at 16:55, Dennis Miles wrote:

> shape first with Crocus cloth ... after blowing out all loose dust
> ... run it with 12 volts for about 16 hours... avoid more than 1/3rd of
> typical current for a hundred miles of driving ... check for the
> deposit of a grey band ... blow out the dust again ...If there are
> strong black and light rings, shape the brushes again and buff the
> commutator ... repeat the seating 16 hours on 12 volts ...

Remind me again why the big automakers aren't using DC motors - and why
recent forklifts and golf cars are also being built with AC motors.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: seating brushes

Ev Performance (Robert Chew)
Not sure on dc motors but on mw sized slip ring drives for ball mills we
install the new brushes and run glass paper of 300 grade between the brush
and slip ring with rough side to the brush. We slidd the paper along back
and fourth and within minutes the brushes are shaped to the slip ring

On 19 May 2012 08:03, "EVDL Administrator" <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 18 May 2012 at 16:55, Dennis Miles wrote:

> shape first with Crocus cloth ... after blowing out all loose dust
> ... run it with 12 volts for about 16 hours... avoid more than 1/3rd of
> typical current for a hundred miles of driving ... check for the
> deposit of a grey band ... blow out the dust again ...If there are

> strong black and light rings, shape the brushes again and buff the
> commutator ... repeat the seating 16 hours on 12 volts ...

Remind me again why the big automakers aren't using DC motors - and why
recent forklifts and golf cars are also being built with AC motors.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =



_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effec...
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120519/37e04869/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: seating brushes

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by EVDL Administrator
Dennis Miles wrote:
>> shape first with Crocus cloth ... after blowing out all loose dust
>> ... run it with 12 volts for about 16 hours... avoid more than 1/3rd of
>> typical current for a hundred miles of driving ... check for the
>> deposit of a grey band ... blow out the dust again ...If there are
>> strong black and light rings, shape the brushes again and buff the
>> commutator ... repeat the seating 16 hours on 12 volts ...

EVDL Administrator wrote:
> Remind me again why the big automakers aren't using DC motors - and why
> recent forklifts and golf cars are also being built with AC motors.

It does sound tedious, doesn't it?

However, it's really just the same sort of many-step manufacturing
process that all high-tech devices go through. You'd see a similarly
long list of arcane steps for making a metal part, assembling a circuit
board, synthesizing some chemical, etc.

Dennis is describing it in terms that a lone builder can follow in his
garage. In a mass production session, all these steps would be performed
on an assembly line by specialized machines. Keep in mind that there are
*dozens* of brushed DC motors in every car.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong reasons.
        -- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: seating brushes

Mark Grasser
In reply to this post by Ev Performance (Robert Chew)
Why not tape a piece of brush width sandpaper to the commutator long enough
to go around 1-1/2 times around and spin the motor with a drill? In my case
do one motor while running the other motor. Take the sandpaper off and then
run it for a day to break them in.


Sincerely,
Mark Grasser
 

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Ev Performance (Robert Chew)
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:54 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] seating brushes

Not sure on dc motors but on mw sized slip ring drives for ball mills we
install the new brushes and run glass paper of 300 grade between the brush
and slip ring with rough side to the brush. We slidd the paper along back
and fourth and within minutes the brushes are shaped to the slip ring

On 19 May 2012 08:03, "EVDL Administrator" <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 18 May 2012 at 16:55, Dennis Miles wrote:

> shape first with Crocus cloth ... after blowing out all loose dust ...
> run it with 12 volts for about 16 hours... avoid more than 1/3rd of
> typical current for a hundred miles of driving ... check for the
> deposit of a grey band ... blow out the dust again ...If there are

> strong black and light rings, shape the brushes again and buff the
> commutator ... repeat the seating 16 hours on 12 volts ...

Remind me again why the big automakers aren't using DC motors - and why
recent forklifts and golf cars are also being built with AC motors.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information:
http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
= = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me.  To
send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage
http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =



_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effec...
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120519/37e04869/attac
hment.html
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: seating brushes

Curtis Keller
I've done this before.

Two caveats -
1) Need to make sure everything is clean of sandpaper grit.

2) Some sandpaper grits are conductive.

Regards

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 7:54 PM, Mark Grasser <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Why not tape a piece of brush width sandpaper to the commutator long enough
> to go around 1-1/2 times around and spin the motor with a drill? In my case
> do one motor while running the other motor. Take the sandpaper off and then
> run it for a day to break them in.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Mark Grasser
>
>
>
--
Curtis Keller
[hidden email]
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120518/b550fb3a/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Electrolyte level too full; what to do

Bob Bath
Is there a procedure if one fills the distilled water too high (slightly into the filler neck?)
Leery to charge now, since it will take up more space and overflow...
Appreciatively,

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electrolyte level too full; what to do

Cor van de Water
That will be one of my worries from now on as well,
since I bought a truck with flooded (Golfcart) LA.
If you remove fluid now, it will be *acid*, not the
distilled water that you threw in, unless you manage
to discharge the cell to dead, then it will have
again almost pure water (that is why the internal
resistance gets so high and the sag so deep when
you discharge deeply) and you may be able to
remove mostly *water* and not *acid*.

Alternatively, I would suggest to get a glass or
plastic pipet or syringe and suck up some of the
fluid and store it in a jar. When you need to water
next time, you put the acid back.
Mark the jar according to its content!!!

Success,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Bob Bath
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 7:15 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Electrolyte level too full; what to do

Is there a procedure if one fills the distilled water too high (slightly
into the filler neck?) Leery to charge now, since it will take up more
space and overflow...
Appreciatively,

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electrolyte level too full; what to do

Al Lumas
In reply to this post by Bob Bath
Shouldn't one charge before adding any water?

At 07:15 AM 5/19/2012, Bob Bath wrote:
>Is there a procedure if one fills the distilled water too high
>(slightly into the filler neck?)
>Leery to charge now, since it will take up more space and overflow...
>Appreciatively,
   
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120519/78b746bc/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electrolyte level too full; what to do

Zeke Yewdall
In reply to this post by Cor van de Water
Do the filler necks have the little slot on the side of them?  If so, then
gases generated while charging can still escape through the slot, and not
push electrolyte out.  I wouldn't expect the expansion of the electrolyte
itself to be the issue... usually, it's the gas forcing it up the tube
because it is trapped above the electrolyte is the issue.  If they are just
a tube all the way down, then getting some liquid out before charging them
would probably be a good idea though.

Z

On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Cor van de Water <[hidden email]> wrote:

> That will be one of my worries from now on as well,
> since I bought a truck with flooded (Golfcart) LA.
> If you remove fluid now, it will be *acid*, not the
> distilled water that you threw in, unless you manage
> to discharge the cell to dead, then it will have
> again almost pure water (that is why the internal
> resistance gets so high and the sag so deep when
> you discharge deeply) and you may be able to
> remove mostly *water* and not *acid*.
>
> Alternatively, I would suggest to get a glass or
> plastic pipet or syringe and suck up some of the
> fluid and store it in a jar. When you need to water
> next time, you put the acid back.
> Mark the jar according to its content!!!
>
> Success,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Bob Bath
> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 7:15 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: [EVDL] Electrolyte level too full; what to do
>
> Is there a procedure if one fills the distilled water too high (slightly
> into the filler neck?) Leery to charge now, since it will take up more
> space and overflow...
> Appreciatively,
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120519/c78aa9e5/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electrolyte level too full; what to do

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Al Lumas
On 5/19/2012 1:39 PM, Al Lumas wrote:
> Shouldn't one charge before adding any water?

Yes. Charging releases acid from the plates, so the electrolyte level
rises as it charges (lead sulfate --> lead and sulfuric acid). If you
add water and then charge, you risk overflowing the cells.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
        -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electrolyte level too full; what to do

Roland Wiench
In reply to this post by Curtis Keller
Before charging, check the electrolyte level.  If the level is below the
plates, then add just enough to get above the plates by about 1/8 of a inch.

Then charge the batteries to about 95 to 98% SOC.  Add distill water if
require to the require level and then finish charging.

This method also better mixes the acid and the water.  If a battery is
setting for a long time, it is best to charge it before you take a specific
gravity reading, because the heavy acid settles to the bottom of the cell
leaving the electrolyte weaker at the top of the cell.  This could give you
a false reading by just reading the electrolyte un-mix at the top of the
cell.

One trick I use, is to do a daily charge up to 98% SOC and then finish
charge about 10 minutes before I leave the next day.  I have seen about 0.4
AH less usage for the first mile of driving using this charge method.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Lumas" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electrolyte level too full; what to do


> Shouldn't one charge before adding any water?
>
> At 07:15 AM 5/19/2012, Bob Bath wrote:
> >Is there a procedure if one fills the distilled water too high
> >(slightly into the filler neck?)
> >Leery to charge now, since it will take up more space and overflow...
> >Appreciatively,
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120519/78b746bc/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Electrolyte level too full; what to do

Bob Bath
This is always the method I've used, which explains why it hasn't been an issue since. Thanks, all!

Sent from my iPod

On May 19, 2012, at 5:09 PM, "Roland Wiench" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Before charging, check the electrolyte level.  If the level is below the
> plates, then add just enough to get above the plates by about 1/8 of a inch.
>
> Then charge the batteries to about 95 to 98% SOC.  Add distill water if
> require to the require level and then finish charging.
>
> This method also better mixes the acid and the water.  If a battery is
> setting for a long time, it is best to charge it before you take a specific
> gravity reading, because the heavy acid settles to the bottom of the cell
> leaving the electrolyte weaker at the top of the cell.  This could give you
> a false reading by just reading the electrolyte un-mix at the top of the
> cell.
>
> One trick I use, is to do a daily charge up to 98% SOC and then finish
> charge about 10 minutes before I leave the next day.  I have seen about 0.4
> AH less usage for the first mile of driving using this charge method.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Al Lumas" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 12:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electrolyte level too full; what to do
>
>
>> Shouldn't one charge before adding any water?
>>
>> At 07:15 AM 5/19/2012, Bob Bath wrote:
>>> Is there a procedure if one fills the distilled water too high
>>> (slightly into the filler neck?)
>>> Leery to charge now, since it will take up more space and overflow...
>>> Appreciatively,
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120519/78b746bc/attachment.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
>> |
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: seating brushes

Dennis Miles
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
Thanks for the recognition Lee, I learned to seat brushes in the USAF rebuilding Motor Generators  with a dc motor on 6 Volts spinning the motor and a Generator built intertwined in the same armature and field coils but separate commutator putting out 250 v dc for the "B+" of a Military Radio circa 1940's style, and still in use into 1960'5 during my tour of SE Asia. New brushes, bearings, some crocus cloth and a sealed package from 1943 which made them as fresh as some of the prepackaged rations in tin cans we ate during Typhoons.
 We were pretty  primitive working in the field near the DMZ in S.Korea even in 1968. But I helped keep the training squadrons of F-4 Phantoms flying to train the ROC pilots "close air support" and I wore many hats back then as Ssgt. Miles of the USAF.  (Men's lives depended upon our work some days.)
Regards, Dennis Miles
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: seating brushes

KilowattA798
In reply to this post by Christopher Darilek
In a message dated 5/20/2012 6:14:54 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:

>
>
> Thanks for the recognition Lee, I learned to seat brushes in the USAF
> rebuilding Motor Generators  with a dc motor on 6 Volts spinning the motor
> and a Generator built intertwined in the same armature and field coils but
> separate commutator putting out 250 v dc for the "B+" of a Military Radio
> circa 1940's style, and still in use into 1960'5 during my tour of SE
> Asia.
> New brushes, bearings, some crocus cloth and a sealed package from 1943
> which made them as fresh as some of the prepackaged rations in tin cans we
> ate during Typhoons.
> We were pretty  primitive working in the field near the DMZ in S.Korea
> even
> in 1968. But I helped keep the training squadrons of F-4 Phantoms flying
> to
> train the ROC pilots "close air support" and I wore many hats back then as
> Ssgt. Miles of the USAF.  (Men's lives depended upon our work some days.)
> Regards, Dennis Miles
>
> F-4 ECM ,Ubon Thailand 1972 Dennis Berube




> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/seating-brushes-tp4644528p4647595.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120520/92952c91/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: seating brushes

Steven Ciciora
In reply to this post by Mark Grasser
I have done _exactly_ that, on a non-EV motor (motor-gen setup for speed control on an old Monarch lathe).
- Steven ciciora



________________________________
 From: Mark Grasser <[hidden email]>
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] seating brushes
 
Why not tape a piece of brush width sandpaper to the commutator long enough
to go around 1-1/2 times around and spin the motor with a drill? In my case
do one motor while running the other motor. Take the sandpaper off and then
run it for a day to break them in.


Sincerely,
Mark Grasser


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Ev Performance (Robert Chew)
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:54 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] seating brushes

Not sure on dc motors but on mw sized slip ring drives for ball mills we
install the new brushes and run glass paper of 300 grade between the brush
and slip ring with rough side to the brush. We slidd the paper along back
and fourth and within minutes the brushes are shaped to the slip ring

On 19 May 2012 08:03, "EVDL Administrator" <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 18 May 2012 at 16:55, Dennis Miles wrote:

> shape first with Crocus cloth ... after blowing out all loose dust ...
> run it with 12 volts for about 16 hours... avoid more than 1/3rd of
> typical current for a hundred miles of driving ... check for the
> deposit of a grey band ... blow out the dust again ...If there are

> strong black and light rings, shape the brushes again and buff the
> commutator ... repeat the seating 16 hours on 12 volts ...

Remind me again why the big automakers aren't using DC motors - and why
recent forklifts and golf cars are also being built with AC motors.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information:
http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
= = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me.  To
send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage
http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =



_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effec...
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120519/37e04869/attac
hment.html
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120521/77b21c57/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: seating brushes

Dennis Miles
In reply to this post by EVDL Administrator
David Roden, In my personal opinion, after teaching my wife to drive
electric on a dc motored vehicle and then seeing her use the accelerator as
a hill holder on a slight upgrade at a traffic light, then smelling the
teletale odor of cooked commutator,(ops forgot to explain that to her) she
received a lesson on using the brake pedal to prevent rollback. and I had
the commutator rebult at the local motor shop. AC motors do not use
commutattors, and aparently reduuction in replacements for "Cooked"
commutators makes the AC motors a viable choice. but they are still
"Pricey" in single unit purchasses. One thing I have found too many times,
as a friend once told me,"You cain"t teach Home Folk !" So I sent my son to
a public driving school.


Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles*   (Founder)
 *"**Electric Car Service Shop"*
*[ the Forgotten Infrastructure ]*
*[hidden email] <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/>    *
(Adviser)* EVTI-EVA Education Chapter*
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 6:03 PM, EVDL Administrator <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 18 May 2012 at 16:55, Dennis Miles wrote:
>
> > shape first with Crocus cloth ... after blowing out all loose dust
> > ... run it with 12 volts for about 16 hours... avoid more than 1/3rd of
> > typical current for a hundred miles of driving ... check for the
> > deposit of a grey band ... blow out the dust again ...If there are
> > strong black and light rings, shape the brushes again and buff the
> > commutator ... repeat the seating 16 hours on 12 volts ...
>
> Remind me again why the big automakers aren't using DC motors - and why
> recent forklifts and golf cars are also being built with AC motors.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120522/fd06f104/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: seating brushes

lektwik
IMHO, the 'cooked comm bar' scenario and the lack of 'engine braking'
(translated to regen with AC drive) are two big reasons that OEMs
don't use DC drives.

On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Dennis Miles <[hidden email]> wrote:

> David Roden, In my personal opinion, after teaching my wife to drive
> electric on a dc motored vehicle and then seeing her use the accelerator as
> a hill holder on a slight upgrade at a traffic light, then smelling the
> teletale odor of cooked commutator,(ops forgot to explain that to her) she
> received a lesson on using the brake pedal to prevent rollback. and I had
> the commutator rebult at the local motor shop. AC motors do not use
> commutattors, and aparently reduuction in replacements for "Cooked"
> commutators makes the AC motors a viable choice. but they are still
> "Pricey" in single unit purchasses. One thing I have found too many times,
> as a friend once told me,"You cain"t teach Home Folk !" So I sent my son to
> a public driving school.
>
>
> Regards,
> *Dennis Lee Miles*   (Founder)
>  *"**Electric Car Service Shop"*
> *[ the Forgotten Infrastructure ]*
> *[hidden email] <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/>    *
> (Adviser)* EVTI-EVA Education Chapter*
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 6:03 PM, EVDL Administrator <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 18 May 2012 at 16:55, Dennis Miles wrote:
>>
>> > shape first with Crocus cloth ... after blowing out all loose dust
>> > ... run it with 12 volts for about 16 hours... avoid more than 1/3rd of
>> > typical current for a hundred miles of driving ... check for the
>> > deposit of a grey band ... blow out the dust again ...If there are
>> > strong black and light rings, shape the brushes again and buff the
>> > commutator ... repeat the seating 16 hours on 12 volts ...
>>
>> Remind me again why the big automakers aren't using DC motors - and why
>> recent forklifts and golf cars are also being built with AC motors.
>>
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EVDL Administrator
>>
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
>> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
>> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
>> |
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20120522/fd06f104/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
12