ugly words

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K O
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ugly words

K O

Comments such as these below probably explain why there are so few women on the EVDL anymore.
I didn't know anything about these things when I started building my EV, I still have a ton of stuff to learn.
There are a lot of mindless males out there as well, ones who want to drive up to 700 miles at 100mph before they will try an EV.  Please try to refer to them as well.

From: mark at evie-systems <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] no active bms

The spirit behind my motivation to build the EV management components
was to be able to "build an EV my wife could drive".? She doesn't know
the first thing about batteries, chemistries, wiring, heat dissapation,
"sweet spots" or anything else 'technical' about EV's.? She wants to get
in, push a button, and go.? I'd say the moral majority feels the same.

How do we do that?? Monitor everything, all cells/voltage/temperature,
wiring, loads, heat, history, etc...

I think it's possible, and still do it on a budget.

Therein lies the dream. :)

I don't shop where I can't charge.

--- On Fri, 10/28/11, ev-re
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Re: ugly words

damon henry

Did someone take an over-sensitivity pill?  He states that his wife wants a car she can just drive and doesn't have to futz with and you go into soapbox mode????  Did you consider the fact that his wife may have actually said that to him?  My wife won't drive any of my EV's, but she is fine with an OEM Hybrid where everything just works and she can get in it and drive.  I fail to see any "ugly words".  Perhaps when he he said the majority you thought he meant the majority of "women" and that somehow only men are sophisticated enough to handle an EV.  That's putting a lot of words into someone else's mouth.  Personally, I read it as the majority of people, which I agree with.  Most people don't want to drive around a science project.  Not everyone has Roland's love of meters :)  http://evalbum.com/470
damon

> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 06:50:07 -0700
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [EVDL] ugly words
>
>
> Comments such as these below probably explain why there are so few women on the EVDL anymore.
> I didn't know anything about these things when I started building my EV, I still have a ton of stuff to learn.
> There are a lot of mindless males out there as well, ones who want to drive up to 700 miles at 100mph before they will try an EV.  Please try to refer to them as well.
>
> From: mark at evie-systems <[hidden email]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] no active bms
>
> The spirit behind my motivation to build the EV management components
> was to be able to "build an EV my wife could drive".? She doesn't know
> the first thing about batteries, chemistries, wiring, heat dissapation,
> "sweet spots" or anything else 'technical' about EV's.? She wants to get
> in, push a button, and go.? I'd say the moral majority feels the same.
>
> How do we do that?? Monitor everything, all cells/voltage/temperature,
> wiring, loads, heat, history, etc...
>
> I think it's possible, and still do it on a budget.
>
> Therein lies the dream. :)
>
> I don't shop where I can't charge.
>
> --- On Fri, 10/28/11, ev-re
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Re: ugly words

Brett Davis
In reply to this post by K O
Maybe Mark could have phrased it better, but the criteria for my wife would
be the same.

She is intelligent and educated (BSN) but could not be less interested in
the technical aspects of cars. Never has, never will. Functional and
practical, make sure it's fueled, push a button, and safely drive, with
confidence in the reliability of the vehicle to not leave her stranded.

And if I want a wonderful 22 years to be 23, I will continue to respect that
about her.

Funny story: she pulled up to her morning soda pop stop one day riding in my
jacked up, hot rod, lime green, rock crawler jeep with my learner permit son
driving. Her friends were asking why she didn't ever drive it and what a
cool jeep. She just said, "really?" No idea, just not on her radar.

Brett

On Oct 28, 2011 7:52 AM, "K O" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Comments such as these below probably explain why there are so few women
on the EVDL anymore.
> I didn't know anything about these things when I started building my EV, I
still have a ton of stuff to learn.
> There are a lot of mindless males out there as well, ones who want to
drive up to 700 miles at 100mph before they will try an EV.  Please try to
refer to them as well.

>
> From: mark at evie-systems <[hidden email]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] no active bms
>
> The spirit behind my motivation to build the EV management components
> was to be able to "build an EV my wife could drive".? She doesn't know
> the first thing about batteries, chemistries, wiring, heat dissapation,
> "sweet spots" or anything else 'technical' about EV's.? She wants to get
> in, push a button, and go.? I'd say the moral majority feels the same.
>
> How do we do that?? Monitor everything, all cells/voltage/temperature,
> wiring, loads, heat, history, etc...
>
> I think it's possible, and still do it on a budget.
>
> Therein lies the dream. :)
>
> I don't shop where I can't charge.
>
> --- On Fri, 10/28/11, ev-re
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Re: ugly words

Jukka Järvinen-2
Please ask your wife to let you to access on the forums SHE follows
and see what they think about men. I could not read more than couple
messages.

This is how the world spins. Certain things just do not generate any
interest among men/women.

I could not see any problem with the Marks message.

We've had the very same issues and no one wishes to get out and push
the car just after getting out of the hairdresser. Even if it would
affect positively to the bottom parts. :P

-akkuJukka


http://www.google.com/profiles/jarviju#about



2011/10/28 Brett Davis <[hidden email]>:

> Maybe Mark could have phrased it better, but the criteria for my wife would
> be the same.
>
> She is intelligent and educated (BSN) but could not be less interested in
> the technical aspects of cars. Never has, never will. Functional and
> practical, make sure it's fueled, push a button, and safely drive, with
> confidence in the reliability of the vehicle to not leave her stranded.
>
> And if I want a wonderful 22 years to be 23, I will continue to respect that
> about her.
>
> Funny story: she pulled up to her morning soda pop stop one day riding in my
> jacked up, hot rod, lime green, rock crawler jeep with my learner permit son
> driving. Her friends were asking why she didn't ever drive it and what a
> cool jeep. She just said, "really?" No idea, just not on her radar.
>
> Brett
>
> On Oct 28, 2011 7:52 AM, "K O" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Comments such as these below probably explain why there are so few women
> on the EVDL anymore.
>> I didn't know anything about these things when I started building my EV, I
> still have a ton of stuff to learn.
>> There are a lot of mindless males out there as well, ones who want to
> drive up to 700 miles at 100mph before they will try an EV.  Please try to
> refer to them as well.
>>
>> From: mark at evie-systems <[hidden email]>
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:07 PM
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] no active bms
>>
>> The spirit behind my motivation to build the EV management components
>> was to be able to "build an EV my wife could drive".? She doesn't know
>> the first thing about batteries, chemistries, wiring, heat dissapation,
>> "sweet spots" or anything else 'technical' about EV's.? She wants to get
>> in, push a button, and go.? I'd say the moral majority feels the same.
>>
>> How do we do that?? Monitor everything, all cells/voltage/temperature,
>> wiring, loads, heat, history, etc...
>>
>> I think it's possible, and still do it on a budget.
>>
>> Therein lies the dream. :)
>>
>> I don't shop where I can't charge.
>>
>> --- On Fri, 10/28/11, ev-re
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>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
>> |
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Re: ugly words

Thos True
In reply to this post by K O
K O,

You are spot on with your observation.
That being said, I should also point out that while my wife is an ardent
supporter of the EV movement, and while she loves to drive each of our EVs,
especially the Leaf, she really has very little interest in the feedback
information. All she wants to know is whether she has enough range to make
her planned trip. (Same goes for my 24 yr old son, who has driven EVs on the
track as well as the road).
Mark could have just as easily made the same statement referring to his
kids, cousins, or in-laws, but I am assuming that he is most familiar with
his wife's views, hence the reference.

Respectfully,
-Tom

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 6:50 AM, K O <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Comments such as these below probably explain why there are so few women on
> the EVDL anymore.
> I didn't know anything about these things when I started building my EV, I
> still have a ton of stuff to learn.
> There are a lot of mindless males out there as well, ones who want to drive
> up to 700 miles at 100mph before they will try an EV.  Please try to refer
> to them as well.
>
> From: mark at evie-systems <[hidden email]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] no active bms
>
> The spirit behind my motivation to build the EV management components
> was to be able to "build an EV my wife could drive".? She doesn't know
> the first thing about batteries, chemistries, wiring, heat dissapation,
> "sweet spots" or anything else 'technical' about EV's.? She wants to get
> in, push a button, and go.? I'd say the moral majority feels the same.
>
> How do we do that?? Monitor everything, all cells/voltage/temperature,
> wiring, loads, heat, history, etc...
>
> I think it's possible, and still do it on a budget.
>
> Therein lies the dream. :)
>
> I don't shop where I can't charge.
>
> --- On Fri, 10/28/11, ev-re
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> _______________________________________________
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> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
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--
Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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Re: ugly words

Ken Fry
In reply to this post by K O
Perhaps Mark should not have put the quotes around "build an EV my wife could drive."  Then, he would be more literally speaking about his wife (not wives in general) who, like most males, know little about (and don't really want know about) the inner workings of their vehicles.

Most males I run into (even EV enthusiasts) know very little about the details of EVs.  Drivers of production EVs should have little or no use for any of this data.  In a Leaf or an old RAV4 EV, you just get in and drive.  
 
I'm amused by Mark's "I don't shop where I can't charge" slogan.  I would do very little shopping if I followed this rule.  I consider it a huge gift when a shopping mall puts in a charger for free use.  The most (recently) publicized one in Atlanta will be free for a couple more months.  Then they will start charging a high rate for its use, to recoup its very high installation cost.  Some charge station providers are proposing to charge astronomically high rates (e.g. 10 times the local kWh rate from the power company) for convenience charging.  

Ken
 


         
Think Big.
Drive Small.  
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Re: ugly words

mark at evie-systems
That's not mine.  That's someone's response to my post that got appended
to his message.

Here's mine:

"Delay is preferable to error" ~Thomas Jefferson

Ken Fry wrote:
>
> I'm amused by Mark's "I don't shop where I can't charge" slogan.

_______________________________________________
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~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
mark@evie-systems.com
"Delay is preferable to error", Thomas Jefferson.
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Re: ugly words

mark at evie-systems
In reply to this post by damon henry
damon henry wrote:
>
> Did you consider the fact that his wife may have actually said that to him?
 >

Bingo!  I asked my wife if I should have said anything any differently.
  She said no.

I don't mind driving around science projects, or mowing my lawn with
them.  She, on the other hand, has no interest.  This doesn't make her
mindless, and I don't regard her that way.  Rather, it makes her
uninterested.

My Challenge; build an EV (or ev components) that she (or anyone else
with her interest level) WOULD want to drive, or mow the lawn with.  To
me that's a bigger challenge than simply wiring together a
battery-voltage-temperature-fluid-SOC-kitchensink monitor.  The
electronics is the easy part.  Putting it together in such a way that
SHE (or anyone else with her interest level) would feel SAFE and SECURE
in?... bigger challenge.

Not as easy as one would think.

 >
> Not everyone has Roland's love of meters :)  http://evalbum.com/470
>
>

Freakin funny!  I had seen that picture but had forgotten about it.

~mark

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"Delay is preferable to error", Thomas Jefferson.
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Re: ugly words

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by damon henry
On 10/28/2011 10:09 AM, damon henry wrote:
> Did someone take an over-sensitivity pill?  He states that his wife
> wants a car she can just drive and doesn't have to futz with and you
> go into soapbox mode?  Did you consider the fact that his wife may
> have actually said that to him?  My wife won't drive any of my EV's,
> but she is fine with an OEM Hybrid where everything just works and
> she can get in it and drive.

That is exactly my situation as well. It's not insulting; it's just the
simple truth. *We* may be in love with EVs, but to our spouses, family,
friends, and just about everyone else we meet, EVs are interesting --
but impractical. They just want a car they can get in and drive. No
meters, no blinkin' lights, no special driving techniques. They just
want to drive.

The funny thing is, EVs can offer this *better* than ICEs. By nature,
ICEs are dirtier, noisier, need a lot more maintenance, and are so
complicated that failures are a lot more likely. EVs are naturally
quieter, cleaner, simpler, and more reliable. But for EVs to *deliver*
on these promises, they have to be built *right*. You can't cut corners,
do shoddy work, or skimp on the details or quality of the parts.

A bad solution that is well done will beat a great solution that is
badly implemented.
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: ugly words

Mark Grasser
I'm beginning to think I must be a girly girl as my hope for my car is
exactly that, to build an EV I can get into and it just runs and doesn't
distract me .


Sincerely,
Mark Grasser
 
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Lee Hart
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 1:24 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ugly words

On 10/28/2011 10:09 AM, damon henry wrote:
> Did someone take an over-sensitivity pill?  He states that his wife
> wants a car she can just drive and doesn't have to futz with and you
> go into soapbox mode?  Did you consider the fact that his wife may
> have actually said that to him?  My wife won't drive any of my EV's,
> but she is fine with an OEM Hybrid where everything just works and
> she can get in it and drive.

That is exactly my situation as well. It's not insulting; it's just the
simple truth. *We* may be in love with EVs, but to our spouses, family,
friends, and just about everyone else we meet, EVs are interesting --
but impractical. They just want a car they can get in and drive. No
meters, no blinkin' lights, no special driving techniques. They just
want to drive.

The funny thing is, EVs can offer this *better* than ICEs. By nature,
ICEs are dirtier, noisier, need a lot more maintenance, and are so
complicated that failures are a lot more likely. EVs are naturally
quieter, cleaner, simpler, and more reliable. But for EVs to *deliver*
on these promises, they have to be built *right*. You can't cut corners,
do shoddy work, or skimp on the details or quality of the parts.

A bad solution that is well done will beat a great solution that is
badly implemented.
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: ugly words

mark at evie-systems
<humor>
It depends, are you wearing pink?
</humor>

~mark

On 10/28/2011 12:51 PM, Mark Grasser wrote:
> I'm beginning to think I must be a girly girl as my hope for my car is
> exactly that, to build an EV I can get into and it just runs and doesn't
> distract me .
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Mark Grasser
>

_______________________________________________
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mark@evie-systems.com
"Delay is preferable to error", Thomas Jefferson.
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Re: ugly words

Mike Scott-13
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
My wife loves her Volt. She may be an outlier, but with her EE background it
was the technology that persuaded her to do the test drive. It was, however,
several days before she took it out alone, as the "newness" of the displays
and controls were rather intimidating. Now though, she does "just drive" it,
not worrying about the numbers as much as I would, but I'm the one that
brings down her averages, 'cause I _will_ push the pedal hard when driving
it. She does remember to plug it in every day, and just this morning said
how nice it was that she had not been to a gas station since May.

It may not be the perfect solution for everyone, but for her it is "done
right".

Despite driving 99.3% on battery for her commute, she insisted on the EREV
concept "Just In Case".

We may _know_ that the ICE is not required for 90% of our driving, yet
people, in general, emotionally want the "security" of the status quo. A few
years from now, my wife may feel differently, and may come to the conclusion
that a BEV is sufficient for her needs. For now, she wants the "bad solution
that is well done"...

Mike Scott in SJ, CA

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Lee Hart <[hidden email]> wrote:

> That is exactly my situation as well. It's not insulting; it's just the
> simple truth. *We* may be in love with EVs, but to our spouses, family,
> friends, and just about everyone else we meet, EVs are interesting --
> but impractical. They just want a car they can get in and drive. No
> meters, no blinkin' lights, no special driving techniques. They just
> want to drive.
>
> The funny thing is, EVs can offer this *better* than ICEs. By nature,
> ICEs are dirtier, noisier, need a lot more maintenance, and are so
> complicated that failures are a lot more likely. EVs are naturally
> quieter, cleaner, simpler, and more reliable. But for EVs to *deliver*
> on these promises, they have to be built *right*. You can't cut corners,
> do shoddy work, or skimp on the details or quality of the parts.
>
> A bad solution that is well done will beat a great solution that is
> badly implemented.
> --
> Lee A. Hart             | Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave N           | Forget the perfect offering
> Sartell MN 56377        | There is a crack in everything
> leeahart earthlink.net  | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>
>
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Re: ugly words

AMPhibian
In reply to this post by K O
I'm sorry but this is simply a ridiculous premise.  It is a quite accurate generalization that most women have less technical interest in mechanics than men.  It's a simple fact.  The fact that there are few women on the EVDL, and any technical board I've ever been on, bears this out.  That's reality.  Do some women have an interest in such topics?  Sure, but they are indeed the exception.  I'm sure we'd all welcome more women on these boards, but not if they are bringing overblown sensitivity with them and derailing discussion.

K O wrote
Comments such as these below probably explain why there are so few women on the EVDL anymore.
I didn't know anything about these things when I started building my EV, I still have a ton of stuff to learn.
There are a lot of mindless males out there as well, ones who want to drive up to 700 miles at 100mph before they will try an EV.  Please try to refer to them as well.

 
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Re: ugly words

EVDL Administrator
In reply to this post by K O
On 28 Oct 2011 at 6:50, K O wrote:

> Comments such as these below probably explain why there are so few women on
> the EVDL anymore.

I'm quite sure he meant no offense, though I suppose it's fair to say that
we should be careful not to be sexist.  We don't want to send anyone away.  

For those who may say that's too PC, I refer you to the last paragraph in
section 1 of the EVDL conventions at

 http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#conv .

Actually the vast majority of drivers, regardless of sex, aren't very
interested in what's happening under the hoods of their cars.  You might as
well say "THE DRIVER wants to get in, push a button, and go."

True, there have always been a few ICE owners who line up the gauges on the
console.  There are also a few Prius owners who buy scanners for their cars
so they can get more information than they can possibly absorb while
driving. ;-)  But such people form a tiny minority.  Except for enthusiasts
like us, "I just want to drive it, not study it" is the norm.

Imagine how adoption of ICEVs would be today if they still required that the
owner be a mechanic and have the skill, awareness, and muscles to set the
gas, choke, and spark, and crank the engine by hand.  Imagine if drivers
still had to listen for pinging and adjust spark advance manually as they
drove.  Heck, few people even want to change gears today.  

That should show you what we need to do to maximize EV adoption.  They
definitely have to be idiot-proof and bulletproof - and convenient.

For many of us on this list, lots of data and periodic maintenance are
welcome.  (Just look at the aircraft-like instrument panel of Roland's car.)
For the general public - and probably no few of us, too - what Lee, Mark,
and Jukka advocate is the way forward.

I speak with some authority here since I'm in that second category.  I don't
want a car for idiots; I kind of like to know what's going on with the car.  
But I don't want it to absorb my entire life.  I've used a multi-battery
monitor, but when I drive, I'd really rather listen to podcasts or music on
the stereo than watch a screen or a panel of guages.  Give me the option to
see what's up, but most of the time I'd rather just know that all is well
(or not).  

I'm still something of a tinkerer, but to me a car is mostly transportation.
Now that I'm well into middle age (getting those nice senior discounts in
many places) and have lots of other interests, I'm well past the years where
I really want to spend every weekend working on my car.

I may be interested in lithium one day, but I'll want a reasonably-priced
drop-in system - a complete, affordable, well-made, well-tested kit of cells
and BMS components that I can bolt together in a weekend to get a 144v or
156v system.  I'll want it to be safe, to know how to take care of itself,
to have the hardware to warn me if anything goes wrong, and perhaps to even
tell my controller to scale back the zoom when appropriate and necessary to
save the battery and/or prevent a fire.  And a guarantee - say 5 years or
50k miles - would be nice.

While we're at it, I'll want a vendor who will tell me what screw to turn or
what module to replace when error #G12 pops up on the display.  

Of course I know better than to expect all this for free.  I understand that
it will cost something for the reliabilty, the development, the testing, the
warranty, the support.  That's fine with me.  As I said above, I have a life
and I'm OK with paying something so I can live it without worrying about my
car.  I can't believe that I'm alone in this.

My sweetie Margaret is a big proponent of EVs (and quite understandably
won't stop nagging me until her Escort conversion is back on the road (don't
ask)).  But she's not electrically or mechanically oriented; her skills and
interests are in other areas.  I wouldn't expect her to monitor cell balance
or other parameters.  She needs an OK / Warning / Stop-now approach - as do
most drivers, regardless of sex.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: ugly words

mark at evie-systems
I certainly meant no offense.  Allow me to amend my statements;

<amendment>
The spirit behind my motivation to build the EV management components
was to be able to "build an EV that would provide safe and reliable
transportation with minimal effort and attention on the part of the
driver, beyond what is normally required to drive a typical ICE vehicle."
</amendment>

I apologize to the members of the list to whom I have offended.

~mark

On 10/28/2011 8:26 PM, EVDL Administrator wrote:

> On 28 Oct 2011 at 6:50, K O wrote:
>
>> Comments such as these below probably explain why there are so few women on
>> the EVDL anymore.
> I'm quite sure he meant no offense, though I suppose it's fair to say that
> we should be careful not to be sexist.  We don't want to send anyone away.
>
> For those who may say that's too PC, I refer you to the last paragraph in
> section 1 of the EVDL conventions at
>

_______________________________________________
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~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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"Delay is preferable to error", Thomas Jefferson.
K O
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Re: ugly words

K O
In reply to this post by K O
Gee..it's not even near the full moon - What could have ticked me off?

I don't shop where I can't charge.

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OT Re: ugly words

martinwinlow
In reply to this post by AMPhibian
Sorry, but I must pipe up, here.  I hoped that KO's original post  
would be read and acknoledged and that would be that.  Point made.

Unfortunately, it appears to have caused some male feather to become  
ruffled and as I basically agree with KO I feel I must now show some  
support.

What we are talking about here is your basic sexism in particular -  
bigotry in general.

The problem is that a woman reading who-ever's original post it was  
(no names, no pack drill) will feel the usual sinking of heart due to  
the reference to a female needing something less complicated to use  
than a male implying they are generally dimmer or less capable than a  
man.  The original poster said this by implication only, of course, by  
referring to his 'wife' - by definition a woman.  It is this blanket  
generalization that offends.  I know it doesn't make sense to us men  
but it is a very simple fact that it does and we (men) should, if we  
want to be seen as 'nice' (even if we aren't really) must bear in mind.

If the original poster had said "My wife told me she doesn't want a  
load of confusing guff distracting her from driving my EV", that would  
be fine as the reference is specific to one person but the point would  
still have been made - some people enjoy the 'dancing bars' and others  
just don't get it.

Jack Rickard (sorry, Jack!) is the worst culprit I have come across  
yet in this respect with his regular references to a 'daughter mode'.  
I don't know if he has a son but if he does and if the son was as  
utterly disinterested in EVs as his daughters appear to be I can't  
believe in a month of Sundays that Jack would ever refer to his  
'daughter mode' as a 'son mode' and that is the nub of the whole thing.

Hope that helps - and doesn't offend.

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk

On 28 Oct 2011, at 22:18, AMPhibian wrote:

> I'm sorry but this is simply a ridiculous premise.  It is a quite  
> accurate
> generalization that most women have less technical interest in  
> mechanics
> than men.  It's a simple fact.  The fact that there are few women on  
> the
> EVDL, and any technical board I've ever been on, bears this out.  
> That's
> reality.  Do some women have an interest in such topics?  Sure, but  
> they are
> indeed the exception.  I'm sure we'd all welcome more women on these  
> boards,
> but not if they are bringing overblown sensitivity with them and  
> derailing
> discussion.
>
>
> K O wrote:
>>
>> Comments such as these below probably explain why there are so few  
>> women
>> on the EVDL anymore.
>> I didn't know anything about these things when I started building  
>> my EV, I
>> still have a ton of stuff to learn.
>> There are a lot of mindless males out there as well, ones who want to
>> drive up to 700 miles at 100mph before they will try an EV.  Please  
>> try to
>> refer to them as well.
>>


"The spirit behind my motivation to build the EV management components
was to be able to "build an EV my wife could drive".? She doesn't know
the first thing about batteries, chemistries, wiring, heat dissapation,
"sweet spots" or anything else 'technical' about EV's.? She wants to get
in, push a button, and go.? I'd say the moral majority feels the same."
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Re: OT Re: ugly words

EVDL Administrator
The points made so far are well taken, but while I think it's good for us to
be inclusive and avoid offending people of all kinds, this thread is
wandering a bit afield.  Can we please agree that -

1. Regardless of sex, people vary in their interest in, and ability to,
monitor the more esoteric technical aspects of vehicle operation

2. EVs for the average person should be designed to monitor themselves and
by some means keep the owners/drivers out of trouble

... and let this thread fade into the sunset?

Thanks.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: ugly words

lcalarea47
In reply to this post by Mike Scott-13
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10077965-54.html   metal shortages , plus
china has 95 percent metals .   will there be enough rare earth metals
,,lonnie

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Mike Scott <[hidden email]>wrote:

> My wife loves her Volt. She may be an outlier, but with her EE background
> it
> was the technology that persuaded her to do the test drive. It was,
> however,
> several days before she took it out alone, as the "newness" of the displays
> and controls were rather intimidating. Now though, she does "just drive"
> it,
> not worrying about the numbers as much as I would, but I'm the one that
> brings down her averages, 'cause I _will_ push the pedal hard when driving
> it. She does remember to plug it in every day, and just this morning said
> how nice it was that she had not been to a gas station since May.
>
> It may not be the perfect solution for everyone, but for her it is "done
> right".
>
> Despite driving 99.3% on battery for her commute, she insisted on the EREV
> concept "Just In Case".
>
> We may _know_ that the ICE is not required for 90% of our driving, yet
> people, in general, emotionally want the "security" of the status quo. A
> few
> years from now, my wife may feel differently, and may come to the
> conclusion
> that a BEV is sufficient for her needs. For now, she wants the "bad
> solution
> that is well done"...
>
> Mike Scott in SJ, CA
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Lee Hart <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > That is exactly my situation as well. It's not insulting; it's just the
> > simple truth. *We* may be in love with EVs, but to our spouses, family,
> > friends, and just about everyone else we meet, EVs are interesting --
> > but impractical. They just want a car they can get in and drive. No
> > meters, no blinkin' lights, no special driving techniques. They just
> > want to drive.
> >
> > The funny thing is, EVs can offer this *better* than ICEs. By nature,
> > ICEs are dirtier, noisier, need a lot more maintenance, and are so
> > complicated that failures are a lot more likely. EVs are naturally
> > quieter, cleaner, simpler, and more reliable. But for EVs to *deliver*
> > on these promises, they have to be built *right*. You can't cut corners,
> > do shoddy work, or skimp on the details or quality of the parts.
> >
> > A bad solution that is well done will beat a great solution that is
> > badly implemented.
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart             | Ring the bells that still can ring
> > 814 8th Ave N           | Forget the perfect offering
> > Sartell MN 56377        | There is a crack in everything
> > leeahart earthlink.net  | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> >
> >
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Re: ugly words

AMPhibian
What's the point of posting this three year old article that has little basis in reality?  
More recent article:
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/08/09/researchers-at-ford-u-of-m-say-enough-lithium-exists-to-power-e/
lcalarea47 wrote
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10077965-54.html   metal shortages , plus
china has 95 percent metals .   will there be enough rare earth metals
,,lonnie